Brother_Leb

@StevethePirateCool thing about the chair mount I used is that it's supposed to be a desk mount, so you could do really whatever with it, because they just ship you a bag of parts (with instructions of course). Note about the speaker stand, depending on how thick your carpet is, it might feel like it wobbles slightly more than what is ideal. My bro bought one for his throttle and has high shag carpet and was worried it was not stable enough, but I think he got used to it within a week. It comes with carpet spikes, but they are too long for even most high shag IMO. Happy building and post whatever you end up with. Would love to see. Cheers!

6 Month Update: Just figured I'd update this post after I've been using it a whlle. Overall: I'm still VERY happy with my setup, and short of a full simpit, can't see changing it anytime soon. Would highly recommend. Pros: easy set-up/tear down and storage Very stable. Both chair mount and speaker stand are very stable and I have had no issues. Close-ish to 1-to-1 for Hornet and Tomcat (I picked up a VR headset on sale last month and had a cool/weird moment when I wiggled my real fingers and was surprised when the fingers of the pilot model didn't wiggle. The throttle and hand position were right where I expected them to be, based on what I was "seeing" in the sim!) Cheap (the above mentioned VR headset would never have happened if I hadn't been able to save $$ making this setup) No quality issues, part-failures, or unexpected problems with either the throttle stand or chair mount. Cons: I have to retighten the bolts on the reconfigured chair mount about once every 2-3 weeks. NOTE: There have been a few times when, under high load (e.g. during a dogfight) a screw has slipped drastically changing the orientation of the stick (usually one of the two bolts which attach the stick to the mount and allow for finer rotational adjustments is the culprit). This is rare and it's never fallen off. There is just slightly more "give" to the stick because the mounting plates bend ever so slightly under high load (particular during full forward deflection, i.e. during inverted maneuvers). The throttle sometimes slips on the high-friction rubber pads on the top of the speaker stand. It's never effected my flying, but I notice it once I'm finished and putting things away The adhesive on the sticky rubber pad that comes with the reconfigured desk mount is slowly wearing out and so I'll probably have to buy a replacement of some sort eventually.

Not to be "that guy," but I'm pretty proud of the DIY setup I made. I had a pretty low budget after I picked up the HOTAS, hence what I came up with. Maybe you'll get some ideas. Hope it's helpful.

IIRC their website didn't recognize my home address either (I live in central Texas, US ). I double and triple-checked before I submitted, but everything came just fine. As for the Paypal thing, yeah. A hassle, to be sure. I hope you get what you are looking for and are happy with your purchase. Cheers!

My guess is the limitation is related to a few things: 1) cost of materials 2) limitations surrounding the ability to make the FFB variable (i.e. change how much) 3) limitations regarding balance of the stick and most stands/mounts. My guess is there are trade-offs across the board, but the most obvious limiter to me is #3. That much force would require a very broad desk-stand and/or a very stiff and reinforced desk-mount. Now, of course some of us simmers want as much 1-to-1 realism as possible and would happily bolt one of these things to whatever was necessary to give us the full 25-16-17lbs pounds of force you described. But that's not everybody and I think it would probably be worse if the stick wouldn't stay standing on a desk under the forces applied with a reasonably-sized desk stand. My 2 cents: Is it inaccurate to the real thing? Yes. Is it disappointing? Yeah. Is it unreasonable? I, personally, don't think so.

Yeah, MustangSally's recommendations are good ones. As for the stick, the F-16EX has more buttons and hats than the F18 one, but I would say the shake kit IS more gimmicky than useful, based on what I've heard (I own the F18 stick and love it). The FFSB stick base WW offers is an option too, if you want more haptic response, but I've heard mixed reviews so far. I don't think it's bad necessarily, but as with most sim gear, there's a lot of customization required and I don't think folks have figured out how it works best just yet. Again, I only have the F18 stick, but I would heartily recommend it, BUT you can usually always use more buttons and the F16EX has mawr buttonz!

You might be encouraged to know that the fingerlift kit is pretty non-intrusive. It is still a push-through detent. It's still extra cost, but I think it works quite well and I'm very happy with mine. (Note: the fingerlift kit is a bit of a hassle to install/remove, so I'm aware that folks that fly helos and or space sims often don't like it. But for anything that uses an afterburner, I think they work great. No complaints.)

I would wait a few days and see if that email comes through. I have heard very few, if any, instances of someone never having a WW pre-order fulfilled. If you are impatient though, I don't see why you couldn't purchase them now and cancel your pre-order. Up to you really.

You have the ability to map what each button does yourself. I don't believe there are preset key binds for WW gear (though if there are, cool). It just my own opinion, but I think it's well worth the time to go through the slightly tedious process of binding the controls yourself in DCS (don't make a profile in SimAppPro, just make it right in DCS itself). If you need suggestions for what to bind, there are plenty of keybind setup videos on YouTube that walk you through someone's setup, but keep in mind you will have to tailor the setting to fit your own needs and your gear. Even if I sent you my setup files (assuming you have the same gear that I have), you would still need to familiarize yourself with the controls and would probably modify my setup significantly to fit your preferences. At that point, why not build the set up yourself? If you are wondering why it is not more "plug and play," well...welcome to the world of simulators my friends, a realm of endless tweaking and customizing. I have an Orion2 F/A-18 Throttle and Orion 1 F/A-18 stick. I like them because for most things I can bind them 1-to-1 with what is in the cockpit of the actual jet (and for other airframes, I modify accordingly). That said, there are lots of trade-offs, adjustments and changes I've made. For example, I do not use the parking brake switch for the parking brake because it's easy for me to click that in the cockpit with my mouse (and partly because in the hornet it's a two stage, twist+pull, operation and the switch is binary), and I'd rather have that switch available for something else anyway (e.g.- fuel dump switch, etc.). Likewise the rotary nobs for heading and courselines don't work because in the jet they are springloaded switches, not nobs. I use those (and the push-button function they have) for my radio nobs instead. There's lots of possibilities for tailoring your set up and that's a feature, not a bug. While setting all this setting up takes time that you'd probably rather be flying, it familiarizes you with your airframe and cockpit which is very valuable and will make the flying when you get there (and it won't be that long) easier. It also means you can tailor everything to how you want to make use of your gear rather than being stuck with a premade set of bindings or selecting between a range of preset options that may or may not work for you.

@Wayan I agree. Hence my "NOTE" at the bottom of my post. It's clear this has not been fixed, but rather addressed by users on their own. I marked that as the "solution" so that someone looking for ways to fix their smoke problem will be able to do so on their own and not have to wait indefinitely for ED. I was that person once. I'm trying to help them. I should also mention that I'm glad a beta tester replied and is aware of it. It gives me hope that ED will address this in future updates. As for your other problem (smoke on the ground forever). You are correct that has not been addressed, but that was also not the issue I created this post about initially. You are welcome to make a new post about that in the 2.8 bugs directory. Feel free to tag or quote this topic if you like. I'd love to see that problem addressed as well.

Thanks to everyone who replied, posted, etc. @FrecceTricoloriVirtualiThanks for that .lua, very nice! We've been trying out our own adjustments as well, based on the .lua that one of the VBA guys did, post 2.8. I will say that I'm actually really happy with how the smoke looks once I change the dissipation factor, segment length, and scale base arguments which allows us to get the parameters we want. It's actually really nice smoke and probably a slight upgrade from before. I stand by what I said previously though. It would be GREAT to not have to break IC to get these changes. I guess, I'll live with it, because copying and pasting a .lua is pretty low maintenance compared to some of the other things many of us do in the sim to get it where we want it. That said, it would be lovely not to have to do that. Thanks again for everyone else pitching in their thoughts. - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * NOTE: As the OP, I've marked this as the "solution" because editing the .lua like the example above resolves the complaint. This doesn't change the fact that the smoke changed from 2.7 to 2.8 or that the change to the smokeTrail.lua that we've made to fix it causes DCS to fail integrity checks. You have been warned. - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *

To hopefully be a bit more helpful, I have found that the curves and deadzone settings right in the sim have worked just fine in some basic testing I did over the weekend. Regarding SimAppPro: it is notoriously tricky to get to work right and ppl are seeing that a bit with the new MFD panels. SimAppPro tends to be a resource hog due to how it injects info to DCS while it's running (this may have been patched, don't know). Something to do with writing a lua file with every input, I think, but exactly how it does this is beyond my competency. There are lots of smart ppl on these forums that have been discussing this for some time though, so a quick search for posts about SimAppPro should find helpful suggestions and folks to contact. Basically, the recommendation seems to be against running SimAppPro while DCS is running if you can avoid it. I never run it unless I want to recalibrate or change one of the nobs from rotary function to switch or some such). Unless you are running one of those MFDs or the new FFB stick base, I don't think you need it. You can open SimAppPro, calibrate and adjust the settings you want and then close the program. It writes those changes right to the hardware, so you don't need to run it for the hardware to work.

I personally don't use curves or deadzones on my Orion HOTAS. When I do (or would set them), I would just do so right in DCS. Part of the reason I got the WW (coming from TM160000) was to not have to apply curves, etc. So, sorry can't be more help in that regard, but having high fidelity gear for me was about being able to get away from using curves and having to set a deadzone.

@Flappie Here's the track where I first noticed it. There's a bunch of dead time at the beginning (sorry) but starting around 10:14:00 in in-game time we're doing airshow maneuvers with smoke and it's very noticeable to me at least. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T1LQzhum9MkqdH-lCRYNsngquZZUQjjb/view?usp=sharing

@Phantom711 Is correct, the two-way switch on the Orion doesn't really work for the parking brake on the Hornet (it does for the Tomcat tho, ironically enough). I experimented with a lot of permutations and keybinds and, short of running a macro, never found something I liked, so I stick to clicking the cockpit version (not ideal in VR, but oh well). I will say, I'd rather have that switch available for other functions anyway, so, while it's a bummer to not have a dedicated parking on the Orion, it's not the end of the world by any means.

I'm in a few virtual Blue Angels groups discords and somebody already made a fix, but it involves editing a .lua file in the core files. I don't want to have to do this (I already did, because I want good smoke, but it'd be nice to not fail integrity checks).

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* UPDATE: As of 2.8.2.35759 this issue has been resolved! Thanks ED. Airshow smoke now looks pretty good and, as far as I can tell, the permanent smoke on the ground bug is fixed as well. Personally, for our airshows, we like the smoke to linger a bit longer than it is currently coded to do. If you want to edit the parameters of your smoke, I suggest taking a look at the edited file by @FrecceTricoloriVirtuali as a good place to start: smokeTrail.lua BE ADVISED, EDITING THIS FILE BREAKS IC. Cheers! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Dear ED, I think a lot of the changes in update 2.8 are really good from what I can tell. Good on yah. Before I grouse, I want you to know that we appreciate the hard work you are putting in. We really do. As an aerobatics/airshow pilot, however, I have a major gripe. The airshow smoke looks HIDEOUS now! It wasn't going to win any awards before, but it more or less looked like it should and our imaginations did the rest. The "new and improved" stuff is clearly making use of new cool particle effects and physics sim tech, BUT it looks like the smoke dispenser is broken with how quickly it exits the jet and disappears/dissapates (around 6-8 plane lengths). We airshow guys want to make shapes in the sky. There's no possible way to make a loop when the smoke is gone less than a quarter of the way through it. It's also really hard to see from the ground or another plane (another reason for using smoke in an airshow setting). I mean, what are all the MB-339 people you are marketing to gonna do with their fancy new fangled smoke system? Now, I have no doubt that people will mod in improved airshow smoke effects, and more power to the awesome community. However, I humbly submit that we have the option to either change how long that stuff lasts or go back to the old smoke. I hate saying it. I know this is probably the lowest priority stuff or your list. And I don't want to stand in the way of progress. But, this stuff is just sad. It makes me sad. Please fix it. Gratefully, A sad Blue Angels stan

You should be able to rebind things in DCS itself (would not recommend using a SimApp Pro profile personally because I think you need to have the program running for it to work, which is a resource hog --| EDIT: There seems to be a fix for this if you don't mind getting into the .lua files a bit: https://forum.dcs.world/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=redirect&url=https://forum.dcs.world/topic/306710-winwing-simapp-pro-export-scripts-analysis/ |--). It's a bit of work but well worth it IMO. That said, to your actual question. I'm a hornet driver myself (so not a 1-to-1 comparison) and have the radar elev bound to that finger wheel on the right throttle arm you mentioned with the spring loaded middle detent. If you have VR, I think there's a binding available to you that does a full zoom on press and back to "normal" when not pressed. My brother has VR and uses it. I don't have VR and haven't found that option anywhere, so I don't think it's an option for TrackIR/2D pilots (not sure why). I personally haven't settled on a binding for my zoom that I'm completely sold on, but here's what I do. For modern jets I use that gray slider nearest the "emergency jett" button, but it's hard to manipulate that when maneuvering (especially in ACM/BFM scenarios). I have alternate bindings for CW and older jets that have simpler switchology and so need less buttons. In that case I have my "slow zoom" in and out bound to the middle thumbswitch on the right throttle arm (the comm switch on the real Hornet). Zoom in pushing forward and out pushing back, recenter on depress. I still have radios 1 and 2 on up and down for that switch. You'll probably have to experiment and find what works for you. As I said, I'm still finding what works best for me. The F16 stick itself has SO MANY SWITCHES tho. There's gotta be something that works.

I've been trying to create a mission and wanted to use static tugs in a harbor. I can see them in the ME and place them, but they do not appear when I fly the mission. I've toggled the historical units option (watch symbol at bottom) on and off and also change the date of my mission and nothing makes them appear. null These two screen shots were taken about 1 minute apart. First from the ME and then immediately jumping into the mission (and saving). As you can see, no static tug. Any ideas on how to make these little guys appear?

I haven't found a button map layout anywhere or blank diagram, I'm afraid. A good place to start would be the basic Hornet button layout, since you have a Hornet throttle with the MAX. There's photos all over the place online of the actual button layout e.g. Chuck's guide for the F18 has a pretty good walkthrough tutorial in the PDF. It's not tailored to the WW, but the same general principles apply and you'll want to customize your setup to begin with. https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs-f-a-18c-hornet/ The layout is similar enough to a Warthog that you could probably use TM's blank layout with some minor tweaks to account for additional switches: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3307614/

It's kinda lame that WW wouldn't include the connector you need with other components or at least have message on the throttle grip store page that explains an additional part is necessary. I'm a very happy WW customer myself, but this seems like an oversight (esp. as all their new stuff is aimed at making stuff modular and swappable). As long as you are going to pay for shipping for one of these, I would recommend the fingerlift kit over the dual throttle connector. I think it works great and it's only $50. If you don't want detents (e.g. for warbirds, etc.), it's easy to remove them and the fingerlifts themselves don't get in the way (they are very light).

I created a thread back in the Spring to track my preorder timeline: A bunch of folks have been posting theirs in there as well. This has some pretty current examples to give you an idea, but @MustangSally's estimate is about right. That said, it seems WW is updating the Orion 2 Throttle and are holding all orders until that's complete. If past experience is an indicator of future performance, if you preorder now, you'll get automatically upgraded, free of charge (I ordered Orion 1 before Orion 2 was released, because this filled my order after it was released, I got upgraded to Orion 2 for free!).

Not that I'm aware of, but this is pretty far beyond me. I've just haven't seen any options, nor have I heard of anyone doing it. Just curious, why do you want to do this?

@Immune I got in a similar cycle before the release of the Orion 2. No contact and no idea when my order would be filled. Ended up being worth it because I'd pre-ordered an Orion 1 and got upgraded for free, but the lack of communication (see OP) was frustrating. Hang in there man. I love my gear, so I think it's well worth it.

Just to clarify, I assume you mean you pre-ordered May 31 and got payment request June 5 and shipping notice June 6? Great to hear it's so quick now!