Brother_Leb

Thanks for posting @MoleUK These two videos are good examples of the pop in/out depending on viewing angle, which seems to me to be a slightly different issue than dot size but definitely needs addressing. As for dot size, I play on a potato PC (by DCS standards at least, see my signature if ur curious) and the dots are massive until about 3NM out and then, poof! I'd love to have a better PC and run crazy settings, but that's not going to be a reality for me in the near future. Whatever solution/adjustment is made, please don't discount us low-budget/low-end folks. We're not down here because we want to be. Thanks!

I personally think the throttle unit is probably where the real value is (can't speak to the Taurus, only have the Orion) between WW throttle and stick. I may at some point upgrade my joystick as there are a lot of other manufacturers out there that do replica hornet sticks (or Tomcat sticks, or Viper stick, or...) less so with the throttle quadrant and at the price point its pretty good. The QA problems with the throttle seem to relate to the cheapness (i.e., plastic) of the fingerlifts on the orion 2, the buttons on the Viper grip extension thingy, and rotary nobs. I've personally had no problems with mine, but I know others have. Genuine DoAs and parts failures do happen, but those seems like outlier (but of course someone who paid good $$ is going to be mad about it, rightly so, and you'll see those reviews on the internet).

I would and did (Orion 2 throttle, Orion 1 stick base + hornet grip). Had mine 1.5 years and I'm still very happy with it. Only problem I've had is a spring that broke about 1 year in. I think they are great and good value for money, IMO. I have heard of occasional QA problems (like my spring), but not more than other manufacturers. WW has focused on Hornet replica gear, so I can't think of a better option if the Hornet is specifically what you want your sim pit to be. It's quite a bit better than the warthog stick with hornet grip upgrade (and about the same $$) and it's much cheaper than other Hornet replica gear.

Hello, I have an Orion 1 stick base, so this may or may not be relevant. I've had mine for about a year and the connection between the f18 grip and the base has occasionally loosened during flight and needed to be tightened. I haven't kept careful track, but I'd estimate about 5 times. While a hassle and frustrating in the moment, it only required retightening (I have found that tightening the sheath while simultaneously applying torsion the opposite direct with the grip produces the best results). I have not noticed looseness in general, just these infrequent slips where it suddenly loosens. I also have not found using the tension bolt to have discernable effect at preventing these slips. While not ideal, I personally don't consider this to be a problem, just an inconvenience. If either of you discover a more permanent solution or contact WW, I hope you'll share what you find.

Short of getting stiffer springs (and I haven't been able to determine the gauge of the WW springs on my Orion Hornet stick), I think your best bet is to add a little deadzone in DCS and see if that works for you. Also, WW has a warning on the page for the extension kit that says it's not recommended for the Orion stick (probably because of the spring strength, though it doesn't say). I know from reading comparo reviews of TMWH vs WW vs VKB vs Virpil, etc. that the Warthog stick has fairly stiff centering force compared to the others and this is seen (by some) as a drawback to the Warthog. IMO, to each his own, but I can imagine going from Warthog to Orion would take getting used to because of that difference. I went from a TM T16000 flight stick to the Orion and it took a while to get used to the lightness of the stick. I believe the centering force of the T16000 is less than the Warthog, so I'm not surprised the Orion feels too light for you. After getting used to it for a bit, I'm now very comfortable with the lighter centering force and I like that the transition across the center of the axes is pretty smooth (and in some cases, like in close formation, not quite smooth enough for me). So, don't give up too quickly. Ultimately it will give you more fine control, which is valuable if you fly non-FBW platforms or do any formation flying. BUT if it's really bugging you, maybe go for new springs, either directly from WW or bring one of the springs in your Orion to a local hardware store and see if they can match gauge and length and then see if they've got slightly stiffer ones with the dimensions (length at least, gauge will probably determine stiffness in most cases).

This. I'm glad OpenXR is no longer being forced on people (well done) but if you're going to integrate it to run natively it'd be nice to have access to it natively. Love the work that's being done, but could use just a little UX. Thanks guys!

That's a slick setup. Nice work!

@Narsim1317I don't have MIP panels (can't afford), but my understanding is that you DO need to run the software in order for the panels to work properly. Even if this is not the case for the panels, the USB screens certainly do require the software. Sorry. I've seen other threads where people report similar issues and have come up with work-arounds. None of them seem ideal to me though, so I suppose I'm glad it's all out of my price range. Less temptation and less frustration. Again, sorry you're having a bad experience.

@Aussie Pilot MustangSally and rob10 covered everything I would have said. Just for clarification though, you will have to run SimAppPro initially to calibrate your gear when you first get it and plug it in (as MustangSally says, DON'T use Windows calibration). You will not get a good result if you just plug in and go straight to DCS. After initial calibration in SimAppPro, however, you can close it and just run DCS and do everything else there. I haven't opened SimAppPro myself in over a month. Important caveat: Things like rotary nobs and sliders have different options for operation (as axis, buttons, or a hybrid). Also, setting up the AB detent needs to be done in SimAppPro as well. If you want to change these you will need to open SimAppPro to do so. And I've sometimes switched them myself, depending on a setup or airframe, and it works fine. Open the program, make the change, close it and go back to whatever you were doing. Happy flying!

Can you be any more specific about what is not working? Does it just look exactly the same? I agree with @gulredrel it works for me as well. I have a backup copy of the vanilla smokeTrail.lua so that I can swap back if I have to pass IC for MP servers. To get the better airshow smoke, I copy and paste the Frecce Tricolori version (well, actually my own tweaked version of their version) to the core directory and let it overwrite the existing one. That has consistently worked for me and my airshow partner (most recent flight was Tuesday evening, US). In fact, I've swapped between the two versions multiple times during a session and had no problems. I know it works because most MP servers I fly require IC and during airshows I can see my partner's full loop with smoke on. My file path: DCS_World_OpenBeta\Config\Effects\ParticleSystem2\smokeTrail.lua Now ED just pushed an update TODAY (12/16) so I have no idea if maybe that changed something, but as of Tuesday (12/13) this all worked for me. One note, the change is client side, so someone else will see the standard lame smoke until they edit their own .lua.

Short answers: Yes it will, and No you can't. Unfortunately, I don't believe there are workarounds to these problems you've mentioned, so make sure you save your settings files before experimenting with SimAppPro profiles! To my knowledge it will overwrite your current DCS profile (but it has been a while since I've tried it). And the ability to edit control profiles in SimAppPro is, as you saw, still in the works and not available yet. The lack of an ability to edit SimAppPro profiles is one of several reasons I choose not to use it. The main reason relates to system performance though. The way it writes to DCS is unnecessarily resource intensive. I really love my WW peripherals, less so the software. IMO you are better off doing all of that stuff directly in DCS. You could try firing up a SimAppPro profile and letting it overwrite your .luas in DCS and then shutting down the app and making changes to those profiles w/in DCS. I'm not sure whether that would work, but might be a possible solution. Again, I choose not to use it so I'm theorizing here.

@StevethePirateCool thing about the chair mount I used is that it's supposed to be a desk mount, so you could do really whatever with it, because they just ship you a bag of parts (with instructions of course). Note about the speaker stand, depending on how thick your carpet is, it might feel like it wobbles slightly more than what is ideal. My bro bought one for his throttle and has high shag carpet and was worried it was not stable enough, but I think he got used to it within a week. It comes with carpet spikes, but they are too long for even most high shag IMO. Happy building and post whatever you end up with. Would love to see. Cheers!

6 Month Update: Just figured I'd update this post after I've been using it a whlle. Overall: I'm still VERY happy with my setup, and short of a full simpit, can't see changing it anytime soon. Would highly recommend. Pros: easy set-up/tear down and storage Very stable. Both chair mount and speaker stand are very stable and I have had no issues. Close-ish to 1-to-1 for Hornet and Tomcat (I picked up a VR headset on sale last month and had a cool/weird moment when I wiggled my real fingers and was surprised when the fingers of the pilot model didn't wiggle. The throttle and hand position were right where I expected them to be, based on what I was "seeing" in the sim!) Cheap (the above mentioned VR headset would never have happened if I hadn't been able to save $$ making this setup) No quality issues, part-failures, or unexpected problems with either the throttle stand or chair mount. Cons: I have to retighten the bolts on the reconfigured chair mount about once every 2-3 weeks. NOTE: There have been a few times when, under high load (e.g. during a dogfight) a screw has slipped drastically changing the orientation of the stick (usually one of the two bolts which attach the stick to the mount and allow for finer rotational adjustments is the culprit). This is rare and it's never fallen off. There is just slightly more "give" to the stick because the mounting plates bend ever so slightly under high load (particular during full forward deflection, i.e. during inverted maneuvers). The throttle sometimes slips on the high-friction rubber pads on the top of the speaker stand. It's never effected my flying, but I notice it once I'm finished and putting things away The adhesive on the sticky rubber pad that comes with the reconfigured desk mount is slowly wearing out and so I'll probably have to buy a replacement of some sort eventually.

Not to be "that guy," but I'm pretty proud of the DIY setup I made. I had a pretty low budget after I picked up the HOTAS, hence what I came up with. Maybe you'll get some ideas. Hope it's helpful.

IIRC their website didn't recognize my home address either (I live in central Texas, US ). I double and triple-checked before I submitted, but everything came just fine. As for the Paypal thing, yeah. A hassle, to be sure. I hope you get what you are looking for and are happy with your purchase. Cheers!

My guess is the limitation is related to a few things: 1) cost of materials 2) limitations surrounding the ability to make the FFB variable (i.e. change how much) 3) limitations regarding balance of the stick and most stands/mounts. My guess is there are trade-offs across the board, but the most obvious limiter to me is #3. That much force would require a very broad desk-stand and/or a very stiff and reinforced desk-mount. Now, of course some of us simmers want as much 1-to-1 realism as possible and would happily bolt one of these things to whatever was necessary to give us the full 25-16-17lbs pounds of force you described. But that's not everybody and I think it would probably be worse if the stick wouldn't stay standing on a desk under the forces applied with a reasonably-sized desk stand. My 2 cents: Is it inaccurate to the real thing? Yes. Is it disappointing? Yeah. Is it unreasonable? I, personally, don't think so.

Yeah, MustangSally's recommendations are good ones. As for the stick, the F-16EX has more buttons and hats than the F18 one, but I would say the shake kit IS more gimmicky than useful, based on what I've heard (I own the F18 stick and love it). The FFSB stick base WW offers is an option too, if you want more haptic response, but I've heard mixed reviews so far. I don't think it's bad necessarily, but as with most sim gear, there's a lot of customization required and I don't think folks have figured out how it works best just yet. Again, I only have the F18 stick, but I would heartily recommend it, BUT you can usually always use more buttons and the F16EX has mawr buttonz!

You might be encouraged to know that the fingerlift kit is pretty non-intrusive. It is still a push-through detent. It's still extra cost, but I think it works quite well and I'm very happy with mine. (Note: the fingerlift kit is a bit of a hassle to install/remove, so I'm aware that folks that fly helos and or space sims often don't like it. But for anything that uses an afterburner, I think they work great. No complaints.)

I would wait a few days and see if that email comes through. I have heard very few, if any, instances of someone never having a WW pre-order fulfilled. If you are impatient though, I don't see why you couldn't purchase them now and cancel your pre-order. Up to you really.

You have the ability to map what each button does yourself. I don't believe there are preset key binds for WW gear (though if there are, cool). It just my own opinion, but I think it's well worth the time to go through the slightly tedious process of binding the controls yourself in DCS (don't make a profile in SimAppPro, just make it right in DCS itself). If you need suggestions for what to bind, there are plenty of keybind setup videos on YouTube that walk you through someone's setup, but keep in mind you will have to tailor the setting to fit your own needs and your gear. Even if I sent you my setup files (assuming you have the same gear that I have), you would still need to familiarize yourself with the controls and would probably modify my setup significantly to fit your preferences. At that point, why not build the set up yourself? If you are wondering why it is not more "plug and play," well...welcome to the world of simulators my friends, a realm of endless tweaking and customizing. I have an Orion2 F/A-18 Throttle and Orion 1 F/A-18 stick. I like them because for most things I can bind them 1-to-1 with what is in the cockpit of the actual jet (and for other airframes, I modify accordingly). That said, there are lots of trade-offs, adjustments and changes I've made. For example, I do not use the parking brake switch for the parking brake because it's easy for me to click that in the cockpit with my mouse (and partly because in the hornet it's a two stage, twist+pull, operation and the switch is binary), and I'd rather have that switch available for something else anyway (e.g.- fuel dump switch, etc.). Likewise the rotary nobs for heading and courselines don't work because in the jet they are springloaded switches, not nobs. I use those (and the push-button function they have) for my radio nobs instead. There's lots of possibilities for tailoring your set up and that's a feature, not a bug. While setting all this setting up takes time that you'd probably rather be flying, it familiarizes you with your airframe and cockpit which is very valuable and will make the flying when you get there (and it won't be that long) easier. It also means you can tailor everything to how you want to make use of your gear rather than being stuck with a premade set of bindings or selecting between a range of preset options that may or may not work for you.

@Wayan I agree. Hence my "NOTE" at the bottom of my post. It's clear this has not been fixed, but rather addressed by users on their own. I marked that as the "solution" so that someone looking for ways to fix their smoke problem will be able to do so on their own and not have to wait indefinitely for ED. I was that person once. I'm trying to help them. I should also mention that I'm glad a beta tester replied and is aware of it. It gives me hope that ED will address this in future updates. As for your other problem (smoke on the ground forever). You are correct that has not been addressed, but that was also not the issue I created this post about initially. You are welcome to make a new post about that in the 2.8 bugs directory. Feel free to tag or quote this topic if you like. I'd love to see that problem addressed as well.

Thanks to everyone who replied, posted, etc. @FrecceTricoloriVirtualiThanks for that .lua, very nice! We've been trying out our own adjustments as well, based on the .lua that one of the VBA guys did, post 2.8. I will say that I'm actually really happy with how the smoke looks once I change the dissipation factor, segment length, and scale base arguments which allows us to get the parameters we want. It's actually really nice smoke and probably a slight upgrade from before. I stand by what I said previously though. It would be GREAT to not have to break IC to get these changes. I guess, I'll live with it, because copying and pasting a .lua is pretty low maintenance compared to some of the other things many of us do in the sim to get it where we want it. That said, it would be lovely not to have to do that. Thanks again for everyone else pitching in their thoughts. - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * NOTE: As the OP, I've marked this as the "solution" because editing the .lua like the example above resolves the complaint. This doesn't change the fact that the smoke changed from 2.7 to 2.8 or that the change to the smokeTrail.lua that we've made to fix it causes DCS to fail integrity checks. You have been warned. - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *

To hopefully be a bit more helpful, I have found that the curves and deadzone settings right in the sim have worked just fine in some basic testing I did over the weekend. Regarding SimAppPro: it is notoriously tricky to get to work right and ppl are seeing that a bit with the new MFD panels. SimAppPro tends to be a resource hog due to how it injects info to DCS while it's running (this may have been patched, don't know). Something to do with writing a lua file with every input, I think, but exactly how it does this is beyond my competency. There are lots of smart ppl on these forums that have been discussing this for some time though, so a quick search for posts about SimAppPro should find helpful suggestions and folks to contact. Basically, the recommendation seems to be against running SimAppPro while DCS is running if you can avoid it. I never run it unless I want to recalibrate or change one of the nobs from rotary function to switch or some such). Unless you are running one of those MFDs or the new FFB stick base, I don't think you need it. You can open SimAppPro, calibrate and adjust the settings you want and then close the program. It writes those changes right to the hardware, so you don't need to run it for the hardware to work.

I personally don't use curves or deadzones on my Orion HOTAS. When I do (or would set them), I would just do so right in DCS. Part of the reason I got the WW (coming from TM160000) was to not have to apply curves, etc. So, sorry can't be more help in that regard, but having high fidelity gear for me was about being able to get away from using curves and having to set a deadzone.

@Flappie Here's the track where I first noticed it. There's a bunch of dead time at the beginning (sorry) but starting around 10:14:00 in in-game time we're doing airshow maneuvers with smoke and it's very noticeable to me at least. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T1LQzhum9MkqdH-lCRYNsngquZZUQjjb/view?usp=sharing