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Everything posted by Rongor
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You are, but it can't hurt
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Transition from free flying to ground effect is quite violent.
Rongor replied to Frag's topic in DCS: Mi-24P Hind
So far I only find conflicting reports on the functionality of the Yaw channel in its currents state. I also struggle to improve my performance with slowing down or transitioning into hover. Regarding the Huey, the Mi-24 is certainly a much more powerful machine and therefore the need of countertorque is way higher. -
Transition from free flying to ground effect is quite violent.
Rongor replied to Frag's topic in DCS: Mi-24P Hind
It's not the ground effect causing the spin. It's the new power setting you achieve when applying more collective to get into the hover. It's tricky to apply the correct counterforce in time by applying more right pedal. The ground effect is actually decreasing this problem, yet I would agree it's debatable how well ground effect is working with the current Hind in DCS. Keep in mind: the slower your speed, the more you will have to counter the torque when increasing collective power setting. Coming to a stop in a hover (regardless wether in ground effect or outside) is certainly the most demanding occasion of need for (quick) antitorque. -
Enabling unrealistic rudder trim wouldn't help the malfunction of the Yaw AP channel. You'd only gain a way to trim against the malfunction.
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It may look cool at first but it isn't. It's actually highly unprofessional. IRL this dude wouldn't have a chance in case of sudden engine failure, LRE, or anything else.
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DCS Mi-24P feels very twitchy
Rongor replied to Hummingbird's topic in Controller Questions and Bugs
I think I know what you mean. Currently I am also not convinced the trimmer is doing its job as usual here. The pause you have to return the stick to neutral seems shorter and often it feels as if there was a delayed input effect, which was actually read out during the time we center the controls. No idea. The three point undercarriage naturally makes the Hind more prone to suffering from dynamic rollovers. Therefore yes, the tipping over makes sense physically. The question remains, how realistic the actual amount of tailrotor force in the sim is. I find that it's a good method to push the stick gently into the pedals direction can neutralize this risk. -
DCS Mi-24P feels very twitchy
Rongor replied to Hummingbird's topic in Controller Questions and Bugs
Regarding my real world helo experience I'd say the most benefitting factor for sensual control inputs is a mix of 3D situational awareness and seat of the pants. Both are missing in our computers. It's no wonder and no shame we can't duplicate real world efficiency. -
DCS Mi-24P feels very twitchy
Rongor replied to Hummingbird's topic in Controller Questions and Bugs
You just have to anticipate better to end the spin, which is a matter of training. Regarding any nervous movement of helos, we have to keep in mind that in the real thing the cyclic stick isn't only a short joystick but extending to the floor. This is why we have to use curves without hesitation. Those of us having a stick extension in their home cockpits will enjoy much better control performance... -
The Hind was indeed used at night in Afghanistan after the Mujahideen intensified their night activities because of the Hind's harassment during daylight. Illumination rockets were in fact the route the Soviets took. VFR night should be no problem for the current version in DCS.
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Question: Low Level Navigation in (Near-) Zero Visibility
Rongor replied to Doc3908's topic in DCS: Mi-24P Hind
FLIR doesn't help that much in IMC.The radar of course does. -
The 170 kph were the start condition, when I shut down both fuel levers behind my left shoulder. I will pay more attention to the actual autorotation speeds at later test runs, when the kid is in the bed
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I agree that the slower you are, the fewer maximum descend rate is allowed. Don't wanna brag but I just did 6 successful autorotations in a row. Only the first one was performed with gear up. In 3 landings I suffered only minor damage. In the other 3 I managed to land undamaged. Preconditions: level flight at 350 meters, 170 kph... Felt even a bit too easy if you ask me. In my opinion the rpm should drop much faster than in DCS. IRL you have to concentrate keeping the rpm within autorotation limits, here it was pretty forgiving...
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Theoretically you don't need high speeds and could autorotate almost vertically. It's just more difficult to time everything right. Only thing necessary is keeping the rpm high enough to prevent blade stall. The forward speed you are keeping is your energy storage. Whenever your rpm gets too low, you can trade in speed for an increase of rpm by pulling the stick back gently (flaring). Keep the rpm near its upper limit, then you trade of rpm for decreasing descend speed when near the ground. Done. It's only about timing and keeping one eye on the rpm. May take a lot of practice...
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It's not the fault of the gear. It's only evidence that your final touchdown descend speed is too high. Just practice the final flare until it works. Even when bouncing, IRL the gear is actually protecting you by absorbing energy before you end up sitting on the grass. The fuselage alone isn't that helpful to absorb the crash. When the fuselage starts to deform, chances are high you might absorb some of the energy too and end up injured or worse.
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Lowering gear won't affect your chances to achieve an autorotation landing. It's certainly not mentioned in the manual point 5.2.2 to enable your autorotation, rather to improve your chances of a safe landing. We can assume that in cases of flight heights below 100 meters, lowering gear might be omitted to leave the pilot more capacity to concentrate on surviving. You wouldn't want to autorotate from 100 meters. You would have merely seconds to achieve the correct attitude and shouldn't bother with landig gear anymore.
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I tested while leaving all the AP channels off. While hovering a few meters above the field, you can clearly notice how giving left pedal (easing power demand) induces descend, giving right pedal (demanding power) causes a slight climb. Why? The anti-torque pedal (right pedal in the Mi-24) is demanding more power. Regularly this would draw away power from the main rotor for some moment, until the engines match the new power setting and deliver the increased power. Giving right pedal would cause a small descend, not a climb. Giving left pedal actually is reducing the power demand of the tail rotor. Hence the main rotor will benefit from the surplus power and generate some more additional lift and a slight climb, until again the engine control notices the decreased power demand and decreases engine power to match the new situation. It seems mixed up here in the Mi-24. Doesn't make sense...
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No and no. There is no such thing like VRS in level flight. VRS is caused by a descend rate which drops you into your own downwash. The only VRS in causing LTE would be a tailrotor VRS which also wouldn't happen during level flight. Btw LTE generally might not matter that much during level cruise flight, since the wind vane effect keeps your helo pretty stable. What you are describing may be some undesired steering input of the AP channels. I recall to have them put me into significant sideslip situations, which could very well be a factor for LTE, maybe even a tailrotor VRS. There is no point in double tapping trim reset. It's just 2 times resetting your trim. If you experienced a need to trim reset to regain control, chances are high that there is a misunderstanding between you and your selected AP channels.
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Regarding the tailrotor VRS, inducing factors (for the Mi-24) would be hovering or slow speed in a strong crosswind from the left or flying sideways to the left.
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You got it right. Correct name comes in handy though when conducting exchange in forums
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You lost RPM because the engines where delivering power at their limits. Keep in mind that pulling the pitch lever isn't just applying 'moar' power. What is realy happening is that the angle of attack of your rotor blades is increased to generate even more lift. Increasing the AoA increases air resistance, so more power is needed to keep the RPM stable. There is a threshold at which your engines can't deliver more. So while allowing you to increase the AoA, your RPM will decrease proportionally. Regarding the LTE, yes, not being able to stop the spin is some kind of LTE, yet you can say it is induced by bad piloting skills. Also LTE isn't the same like tailrotor VRS. You didn't say this, but other people around here seem to mix it up. What is important to know (and I am not sure this is conveyed by DCS manuals sufficiently or maybe simply nobody reads them) is that your helicopter main and tailrotors have interwoven power demands and share the same power source. There are limits which may shift depending on your flight envelope. Few people take time to understand these. Let's be creative here: Say you are in that hover, slowly spinning to the left. Your helo is heavy and outside air is hot and dry. Your pitch lever is already under your armpit, engines are at their limits. Now you want to apply right pedal to counter that spin. While doing that, your main rotor RPM decreases. Many people would assume a bug. Not you. You know that right pedal will increase power demand. Since your engines are already at their limits, delivering power to keep that huge main rotor AoA to generate enough lift to prevent a descend, the additional power demand of the tailrotor is just too much, RPM decreases. You probably won't be able to stop that spin. Understanding all this is necessary to prevent states like this. In a helo you have to anticipate stuff like this so much more than in fix winged aircraft. Exactly this made me stop using the yaw AP channel, as I noticed it can kill me by denying me full authority over right pedal actuation...
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It's probably just a matter of practice. You didn't tell us in which flight profile this happened. It can happen when slowing down and not applying enough left pedal. Stopping the rotation needs much more tail rotor power than preventing the rotation. When you will have gained a feel when and how much you have to counter increasing torque moment when slowing down, this problem will retreat.
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This is entirely possible without a tailrotor ring state. Since you transitioned into a hover, and lateron into a climb, you caused a maximum torque at the mainrotor and therefore a maximum need of antitorque for the tailrotor. The trick is to not allow it into any left yaw movement at all why transitioning into the hover. The power of the tailrotor will be just that sufficient to keep your yaw controllable (if you apply pedals early, before letting a spin happen). In your situation you already had a left yaw moment. While your tailrotor would have had just enough power to keep your nose steady, it's just not powerful enough to stop a left spin in a high power situation (hover), which would demand even more power, much beyond the antitorque required to not get into a spin in the first place. IRL, If you are in a hover without any yaw moment, you are advised to generally only yaw into the direction in which you need to apply more power with you pedals, you don't yaw into the direction where you reduce power. Because of this exact problem. I don't know anything about the real world Mi-24, but there are actual operations procedures for several helicopters which prohibit or restrict use of pedals in low speeds and while hovering. Since the rotor spins to the right in the Mi-24, the toque will always try to pull your nose to the left. So whenever possible, during low speeds (hover), only yaw to the right. If you transition to low speeds and/or into hover, anticipate the left yaw and counteract instantly, don't let that spin happen. Your engines are already at their limits and your tailrotor won't be able to apply enough antitorque to stop that spin. They will perform just fine keeping you stead though. If you have to yaw to the left, do it with caution and slowly. The more weight you have, the more important this is. If you let that left spin happen, you are overwhelming your tail rotor. It may not be able to catch that spin and neutralize it and this might kill you. What you did was actually a good solution. Probably you faced a clear risk to hit some obstacles, but reaching for altitude to then pitch down and gain speed was indeed your only chance, well done!
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It's mainly a matter of practice. Maybe adjust your controls curves to at least 20. Then practice taxiing from a cold start. Commence with very slow speeds. Practice to find the neutral stick position on ground, it will be slightly to the right and backwards, trim it there. Experiment with the AP channels. Personally, for taxiing on wheels, I use the roll and pitch channels only. Practice anticipating roll moments. Practice taxiing with very slow speeds at first. Make use of the wheel brake. Also brake by pulling the stick back gently. If you taxi through turns by applying pedals, expect the helicopter wanting to roll into the opposite direction. Practice to counter this roll moment by moving the stick in the direction you want to turn. Concentrate and practice this by driving around all the taxiways on your airfield. When you start feeling progress, do all that again, only this time you concentrate to taxi exactly on the yellow centerlines. 1. Keep it slow, until you feel progress. 2. Keep in mind you can control all taxi speeds with your stick alone: accelerating and slowing down. 3. If you give right pedals to taxi into a right turn, move stick slightly to the right, to counteract the roll-over tendency to the opposite direction. The amount of stick movement depends on your speed. You'll have to find your personal feeling how much stick movement is necessary for each situation. 4. Don't try to learn this while landing with speed. You don't want to learn how to revover from uncontrollable rolling (you can try that later), you want to learn how to not get into a state of uncontrollable roll moments. Start slow. 5. Keep practicing. In your training, as a thumb rule, if you need to apply wheel brake, you were too fast already. Try to do it with stick only.