statrekmike

Cobra, I suppose I might as well ask this fairly direct question more as a means to kinda clear up any possible remaining cause for confusion or misplaced hope. Since there seems to be a lot of emphasis being put on 1.3.0 integration, is it safe to assume that we should not expect a release before 1.3.0 is out?

A good way to understand the reason for our frustration is to imagine being the football player that caught the ball and is now running for the goal, sadly, every time you get really close to the goal, it moves. That is kinda how this feels and to dismiss it as simple impatience or ignorance of how software/modules are developed is not really helping.

I think this is a important thing to consider seriously, a lot of us want the MIG perhaps a bit more than EDGE so the idea of kinda arbitrarily waiting for EDGE is kinda tough. I don't know how difficult it would be to make a 1.2.9 release but that might be the best way to go in the long run since we really don't know when EDGE is coming at this point.

I think this is actually a pretty good question, it would clear some things up at least.

Again Cobra, I appreciate your posts here and I can understand that this is very frustrating for you and the team since a lot of this is out of your direct control, still, the reason you are getting such heated comments is because all of us are looking forward to this plane a great deal, most of us have stuck with this project through some pretty hard times and now that we are so close to release, the excitement is understandable. Still, as I said before, we as the consumer/fan-base don't really know what is going on at all, the release dates of everything DCS related is always in a state of flux (with some exceptions) and that can make being on the fan-base side a bit frustrating, especially when big news happens (like the upcoming release of 1.2.9) that makes us all re-evaluate where various modules stand. The big thing here is uncertainty, again, we don't know what is going on with ED's choices or Leatherneck's, it is hard for us to know that we are so close and yet still not really know anything at all. I know nobody asked for my advice on this but I still honestly think that a post that gives us the whole situation as it stands right now would be best, I mean, as it stands, the MiG could come in 1.3.0 or even 1.2.9 and that has the unfortunate side-effect of meaning that a lot of us are going to be hoping for a 1.2.9 release but perhaps if we had a more realistic understanding of the entire situation (at least as much as Leatherneck can reasonably tell us), it would help us temper our hopes and expectations with reality.

So, just to make sure I don't get my hopes up, does this rule out a 1.2.9 release entirely? I am not sure what to hope for here.

I appreciate your official reply on this, hopefully you will share any new information with us as it comes so that we have a idea of what is going on. It was my understanding that the MiG release was not dependent on 1.3.0 or EDGE, I have to admit that I am a bit sad to see the overall delay of EDGE cause a potential delay on the MiG, hopefully I am wrong.

I think it is still a bit early to start talking about the MiG not coming out in 1.2.9, a lot can be lost in translation and it could have meant that it simply won't be out when 1.2.9 releases. To be blunt, I have yet to see anything indicating that we will be waiting for EDGE to come before the MiG can come out. As I said before, a official word from Leatherneck about this might help a great deal in curbing the speculation.

So I think this is probably a good time for the LS folks to chime in and let us know where they fit into all this, I mean, I don't know if this changes anything on their end but perhaps some clarification about LS's plans at this point would be good.

It was my understanding that ED was going to skip 1.2.9 in favor of just going to 1.3.0, I mean, unless I missed something and that has since changed?

That may be true but at the same time, we already have a good few WWII airframes on the way, why push the modern aircraft fanbase to the side in favor of a market that is already being served?

I agree with this entirely, I mean, I know there are folks that love WWII era aircraft and I do also but at the same time, we have two different large-scale WWII projects happening for DCS World (the DCS WWII project and VEAO's flying legends project), both of those projects will fill out the WWII hanger pretty significantly and as such, I can't help but ask if more 3rd parties doing WWII aircraft is really a good thing for DCS world as a whole. As the quoted post above said, DCS World is the ONLY actively developed modern military combat sim on the market right now, I mean, yeah, sure, you could bring up BMS and while BMS is a nice sim, it has long since reached it's potential. DCS should explore all era's of air combat but one should not come at the expense of others and right now, it is starting to feel like WWII is taking over. What I am saying I suppose is that Leatherneck is in the position to really fill out the cold war era aircraft inventory, it would be a shame if they were to hop on the WWII bandwagon when so many others are doing the same already.

It would be good to see a more in depth video as opposed to a trailer, something that shows a full cold-start and a bomber interception perhaps?

This is very well put, I know that I am one of those users that has been very patient in the past but now I am at a point where I just want at least one promise to actually come true here, a few setbacks are one thing, that is something that everyone can live with but when there is delay after delay, setback after setback, well, it wears thin and while I fully understand that Leatherneck is doing everything it can to get the module out, I can't help but feel that the customer relations front could stand for some improvement. It is easy to label people as "naysayers", "whiner's" or "complainers" but in the end, a lot of what said groups have said has actually been constructive and even correct.

I think the carrot on the string is a good way to express my general feeling, I mean, as I have said before, I get that there are difficulties associated with building a DCS module that I will NEVER understand but at the same time, it does start to get a bit trying to hear "we have a update coming this week!" and then that update comes a month later or "we are getting set for a possible June release" but then we get a update (on the very last days of June) that says we won't be getting it till another time that is yet unknown. Don't misunderstand, I am making this sound like a bigger deal than it really is for me, I was frustrated at first at the constant missed deadlines for updates but at this point, I sadly have adopted a mindset of "I will believe it when I see it" when it comes to news updates, let alone the release date. I will buy this the moment the option to do so is available, I am not even exaggerating but despite how much of a fanboy I am for this project, I still feel like I am following a carrot I will never catch at times.

Is this a theory or something you have heard from reliable channels?

I don't want to sound like I am starting a fight with you but the dev's said that the basic development is done but they also clearly stated that there are integration and QA tasks still being worked on, at no point did they ever say that that "everything is done". Look, I am very eager to get my hands on this module, I have been for it's entire (announced) development and while I would love to see it soon, I also know that there is nothing that I can personally say or do to expedite the development, no matter how much I wish I could. It seems that the release date is somewhat outside of Leatherneck's control at this point, ED has to do it's part to make sure everything is working properly and as such, it hopefully won't be long and we will all be flying the MiG and having fun.

I think it is safe to say that the Dora was given a set date because ED is handling that title directly while Belsimtek is handling the Sabre, it would (as far as I can tell) fall on Belsimtek to release a set date when they have one. I also agree with the above poster about this silly idea that all of the new modules coming out on the same day, that is a terrible business strategy, heck, the fact that the MiG and the Sabre will probably be sharing a release month is not exactly ideal in the sense that they will be competing directly for those with limited funds for modules.

Cobra, can you give us any impression on how things are progressing in terms of the core integration and QA? I mean, not really asking for exact percentages of completion here, just enough to give us a general feeling of what is going on. I mean, I think the big thing that kinda sets things off on this subforum is not that release estimates don't really come to fruition (understandable in development) but that very little is said in the days immediately leading up to those dates, even a quick post last week saying very clearly that a June release is not going to happen would probably have gone a long way to ease the pressure and would have prevented the release thread from going the path that it did. I have no trouble looking at things from your perspective as a developer, I am not one myself but I feel that if you don't think it is ready, it is not ready and I support you on that 100%. However, please keep in mind that we as customers are kinda like highly caffeinated people running around in a dark room, we are really excited but we don't really know what is going on and that can lead to us grasping at whatever we can see and making it a big deal. We don't know when things are going to run into overtime, I think I can speak for most of us when I say that we are okay with the waiting, as long as we are not waiting for a date (even a vague one) that you know won't happen. I suppose what I am trying to say is that while I see that you gents have made some statements on various threads, it might be good to make occasional and somewhat in depth news posts (even a paragraph, it need not be long, just informative) so that we are not waiting for dates (again, even vague ones) that have already been decided were not to happen. Now, finally, before everyone jumps on me for being "impatient" or whatever, this is not the case, as I said, I fully support Leatherneck's choices on when and how to release the product, I am simply talking about why things are so tense here and putting forward a suggestion (and a very minor one at that, no more than a paragraph every week or two on a official post) that might help ALL of us have a smoother, happier time here, this is not "entitlement" or anything like that.

It really is not bad here at all, there are only a scant few troublemakers and the overall anticipation for the product is being shown in a generally positive light. Still, I am a MiG-21 cheerleader but even I can admit that the general lack of solid announcements (not just the random forum post but actual product updates of some form or another) as well as the release time-frame that keeps creeping just ahead of our grasp is getting a little frustrating. The issue here is not so much impatience really, it is that the folks here who are waiting for this have been hanging on with only a few screenshots, a video and some faith for a long time and it being so close to release makes every little slip of the release window more pronounced. It will come out eventually, I just hope that eventually does not mean in another month or more.

While I fully understand that releasing such a product does involve a plethora of logistical and technical concerns that I can't even begin to fathom, I still can't help but feel like a few screenshots or even another video would probably not be a bad idea, at the very least, a new video would help build some hype around the product. I am still hoping for a June release, it might not happen but it still would be pretty neat none the less.

You are more than a little behind in your information, perhaps looking through this thread (and the other threads in this subforum) will clear things up for you.

All of this talk about waiting until 1.3.0 might be true but on the other hand, I have a hard time believing that every 3rd party will need to wait for a major patch release to not only release products but also to update them, it does not sound very logical at all. I suspect that what will end up happening is that ED will simply roll out small compatibility patches on release of any 3rd party module. Without knowing all the details, I can't say if I am right or wrong on this but my gut tells me that the MiG is not going to have to wait for a huge update, that would make things more complicated and more annoying for 3rd party dev's who are able to release products outside a big ED update.

Listen, I get what you are saying, I really do but I think you misunderstand what I am saying here. I fully acknowledge that the only "right" I have as a consumer is to buy or not buy a product, I get that but at the same time, I am not talking about interacting with the dev's here, I am not saying that we go bang on the doors of Leatherneck studio when the clock hits midnight of the 20th. No, I am talking specifically about the discussion of release dates among the other users here, specifically, when someone says something to the effect of "Hey, I hope it comes out soon, it has been a long wait already and apparently it is nearly done" and then someone replies with what essentially amounts to "It will be done when it is done, I can wait for years longer if that is what it takes" and then there are others who will reply with "Stop pressuring the dev's!". The thing is, as I said before, many of us have been waiting a long time already and through several release dates at that, we are now at a point where we as consumers CAN logically expect a release pretty soon, Cobra even stated just now that it is pretty much done aside from a few little things so when someone on this forum acts like it could be months more and that we should just accept that, I am sorry, I don't buy it, even the dev's have indicated otherwise. The same thing happened awhile ago, before Dolphin talked about the release schedule, a bunch of folks here just kinda assumed it would be months and months longer, that we would be looking at a autumn or winter release and that turned out to be nonsense. Finally, stop with the guilt trip, seriously, any developer that makes a long awaited product expects and deals with anticipation and impatience on a daily basis, this forum seems to have two very different sides on this topic. The first side is the one that blames the consumers for every misunderstanding, every community backlash and every disappointed response on the fans. Even worse, this standpoint treats ED and any third party like a scared baby deer that can't possibly deal with the public and that every quiet spell where we don't get a lot of news is because we as fans were horrible and demanded too much. The other side (where I sit) respects the developers ability to know when news should be released, when it should not be released and also how to deal with critical fans properly, I mean, they are all adults, they know how to deal with this stuff and in all honesty, the behavior on these forums is pretty mild at the worst compared to a lot of other forums I have been on. So, please, lets not play the whole "it is our fault that they can't tell us anything" game, please, there are points where we the fans have a good reason to speak up about anything from release dates to product concerns and at the same time, we have seen time and time again that dev's have been able to rationally deal with it in a adult manner. I know it is cool to blame the forum users for drawing the wrong conclusions, for getting too hooked on release dates and all that but in the end, it is NORMAL for fans to anticipate releases, it is normal for fans to look at every shred of news carefully (especially when there is not a lot to go on) and it is normal for the developers to take all those concerns to heart and either go with them or not.

I think you misunderstand my position, I am all about software companies taking the time needed to actually finish a product, I am all about software not having a bunch of bugs, that is not up for debate. What I am saying is that many on this particular sub-forum have been in this thing for the long haul already, we have seen a lot of ups and downs and now we are finally at a point where release is near, you can literally feel the anticipation. That said, since we know that it is close to release, since we know that the product is pretty much done, the idea that we should gladly accept even more waiting is kinda absurd, I mean, I understand that stuff happens but in all honesty, we are not looking at anything more than a small delay if there is even one at all.