A.S

I was only focusing on the f-16c-52bk.bad(dat) files which defines the FM characteristics. Other differences surely excist.

The never ending debate that the flightmodel in Falcon AF is different then the flightmodel in Falcon OF. To answer that i compared the FM-datas for the F-16C-52 (PW229 engines) in both cases. ( i haven´t added each single number and value, becuase that would have ended in a huuge list here) Result: INPUT MASS AND GEOMETRIC PROPERTIES: AF: 19635 # Empty Weight (lbs) 300 # Reference Area 7162 # Internal Fuel OF: 19635 # Empty Weight (lbs) 300 # Reference Area 7162 # Internal Fuel ANGLE OF ATTACK AND SIDESLIP LIMITS: AF: 40 # AOA Max -8 # AOA Min 30 # Beta Max -30 # Beta Min 9.0 # Max G 190 # Max Roll 250 # Min Vcas 900 # Max Vcas * 420 # Corner Vcas 8 # Theta Max 3 # Num Gear OF: 40 # AOA Max -8 # AOA Min 30 # Beta Max -30 # Beta Min 9.0 # Max G 190 # Max Roll 250 # Min Vcas 850 # Max Vcas 420 # Corner Vcas 8 # Theta Max 3 # Num Gear PHYSICAL DATA: AF: 27.00 # CG Loc 47.00 # Length 32.0 # Span 2.5 # Fus Radius 4.5 # Tail Ht OF: 27.00 # CG Loc 47.00 # Length 32.0 # Span 2.5 # Fus Radius 4.5 # Tail Ht BASIC AERODYNAMIC COEFFICIENTS: Num Mach: AF: 0 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.9 0.95 1.0 1.05 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.9 2.0 2.1 OF: 0 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.9 0.95 1.0 1.05 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.9 2.0 2.1 Alpah Breakpoints: AF: -8 -4 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 14.5 15 15.5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 40 55 70 90 OF: -8 -4 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 14.5 15 15.5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 40 55 70 90 Lift Coefficient CL: Table Multiplier = 1.0 (AF & OF are the same) *here the the endless values* see attachement* Drag Coefficient CD: AF & OF same with Table Multiplier 0.66666, but comparing all values from Mach 0.00 to Mach 2.10 (in 0.10 step) AF has slightly higher values in the mach-tables (* Mach table - see above Lift Coefficient CL as example) SIDE FORCE DERIVATIVE CY-BETA: AF & OF Table Multiplier = 1 *both have same values *here the the "endless" values - see attachement* PROPULSION DATA AF & OF uses 1.0 Thrust Multiplier and 1.0 Fuel Flow Multiplier based on same Mach Breakpoints (0 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.8 0.9 1.0 1.05 1.1 1.15 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 2.2) and Altitude Breakpoints 0 10000 20000 30000 40000 50000 60000 75000 references are THRST1 - THRUST AT IDLE (THROTL = 0.00) THRST2 - THRUST AT MIL POWER (THROTL = 1.00) THRST3 - THRUST AT FULL AB (THROTL = 1.05) the tab values (* see attachment*) are absolutly the same for AF and OF FUELFLOW: Here OF differs from AF. Comparing the listed datas.... OF: fuelFlowFactorNormal 0.941 fuelFlowFactorAb 2.26 minFuelFlow 868 fuelFwdRes 480 fuelAftRes 480 fuelFwd1 2772 fuelAft1 2330 fuelWingAl 550 fuelWingFr 550 fuelFwdResRate 22.2 fuelAftResRate 22.2 fuelFwd1Rate 22.2 fuelAft1Rate 22.2 fuelWingAlRate 6.66 fuelWingFrRate 6.66 fuelClineRate 20.0 fuelWingExtRate 33.3 fuelMinFwd 400 fuelMinAft 250 AF: fuelFlowFactorNormal 0.726 **** fuelFlowFactorAb 2.06 **** minFuelFlow 868 fuelFwdRes 480 fuelAftRes 480 fuelFwd1 2772 fuelAft1 2330 fuelWingAl 550 fuelWingFr 550 fuelFwdResRate 22.2 fuelAftResRate 22.2 fuelFwd1Rate 22.2 fuelAft1Rate 22.2 fuelWingAlRate 6.66 fuelWingFrRate 6.66 fuelClineRate 20.0 fuelWingExtRate 33.3 fuelMinFwd 400 fuelMinAft 250 we already see slight variations, but furthermore it appears that OF has uses a more sophisticated way of calculating Fuelflow structured in Mach- and Altitude Breakpoint. After having a mail exchange with Mav-Jp (the maker of HIFI EM-charts) he has confirmed that OF uses a "more accurate" fuel consumption (that´s a while back over frugals forums though....but i remember) ROLL DATA: Alpha Breakpoints: AF & OF is same -10.000000 0.000000 10.000000 20.000000 25.000000 30.000000 90.000000 DYNAMIC PRESSURE BREAKPOINTS Num Qbar: AF & OF is same 0.000000 100.000000 200.000000 300.000000 400.000000 500.000000 2000.000000 RCMDMX - PEAK ROLL RATE Coefficient =1 Rate Table for alpha -10, 0, 10, 20, 25, 30 and 90 AF & OF are the same 0.000000 171.820007 243.410004 257.730011 257.730011 257.730011 229.089996 0.000000 214.770004 286.359985 300.679993 315.000000 315.000000 286.359985 0.000000 171.820007 243.410004 257.730011 257.730011 257.730011 229.089996 0.000000 71.589996 143.179993 157.500000 157.500000 157.500000 128.860001 0.000000 60.000000 93.070000 107.389999 107.389999 107.389999 107.389999 0.000000 30.000000 42.950001 57.270000 57.270000 57.270000 28.639999 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 LIMITERS: OF: (difference in AF marked with ****) 17 # Number of limiters # Type Key Values # # Neg G Limiter 0 0 250 -3 100 0 # Pos G Limiter (Cat I) 3 1 15 9.0 20.4 7.3 25.2 1 **** AF: 15 20.4 25.2 9.0 1.0 # Roll Rate Limiter 0 2 15 1 25 1 # Yaw Alpha Limiter 0 3 14 1 26 0 # Yaw Roll Rate Limiter 0 4 20 1 360 0 # Cat III Command Type 0 5 350 18 420 15 # Cat III AOA Limiter 1 6 16 # Cat III Roll Rate Limiter 2 7 0.6 # Cat III Yaw Alpha Limiter 0 8 3 1 15 0 # Cat III Yaw Roll Rate Limiter 0 9 20 1 180 0 # Pitch and Yaw Control Damper 3 10 0 0.3 15 0.85 50 1 **** AF: 0.0 15.0 50.0 0.30 0.85 1.00 # Roll Control Damper 3 11 0 0.6 15 0.85 50 1 **** AF: 0.0 15.0 50.0 0.60 0.85 1.00 # Command Type 1 12 15 # Low Speed Omega 3 13 0.01 0.1 40 0.8 60 1 **** AF: 0.01 40.0 60.0 0.10 0.80 1.00 # Stores Drag 0 14 0.9 0.0001 1 0.000283 # Cat III Max Gs 1 16 6.5 # AOA Limiter 1 17 25.2 *****ERGO: ******** Except the more sophisticated fuel consumption in OF, and the slightly higher Drag tables for AF under same Mach- and Altitude breakpoints, and few differences in the Limiters, the flight models are pretty much the same. Surely higher drag tables - even just slightly - in AF require a little bit more "disciplined hand" to conserve your energy and may play a role if it comes to things like timing your Gs, but the difference is really small. What i can NOT confirm - and dont know - is if the Joystick response (curves) in OF act the same way as they do in AF. Basically if the input is processed in the same way. Often you hear from many that the flightmodels are different, but this shows, they are not. Gfx and sound also can "set you off". I hope this helps ! PS: ..i was bored, and had that quick idea to make this quick over 2 coffees :)

That´s awesome :megalol:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/44-80/fm44-80.pdf

Somehow it has the "edges" of F-22ski and the elegance of Flanski ..it is a sexy looking bird though :pilotfly:

...the first blackshark i will see, will be the one i shoot down (in 2.0) ... :megalol:

yaaaay something cool to watch again .....bzzzzzzzzzzzt *downloading* EDIT: cr*p: this is BS not LO.....n i wonder why it doesnt load

yeah dude....all this bright shiny nice collors in squares...phaszinating :clap_2:

i found it interesting at least.....i mean ..erm..is it "unpatriotic" not to be a F-22ski fan? .....im unbiased anyways :D

nice post !

big big burner in a big big world (t-50) :huh:

Go for it....you are free to do so.... usually this technique is based on point-to-point navigation...i came up with that modified idea back in RVE days....handy and very effective. Today for example i was flying on 104th with Mustang (who knows how to use that).....poor enemies...didnt even know what hit them :) and we ALWAYS had full picture of who is where (including calling bandits by BE) ... If you use that technique smart, you can even use your RWR (assumed you know how to use it well, down to IFF-ing (RUS) with it) to locate the bandits pretty accurate and guide your wingman to a really nasty "position" before attacking....and that silent ;) (just an insider tip)

Someone noticed the wierd angles and the small size (RCS) of the rudders on the T-50 .. and to achieve still enough steering surface, they move as a whole unit ..smart.

this LOD is a mulitplicator of modellod.txt LOD values. example ...LOD 10000 (m) x 1.0 (lod gfx.cfg) = switch to lower LOD at 10.000m

Nice ! Allow me to add some so everyone (i mean everyone) can easily fly with BE coordinates FROM INSIDE YOUR COCKPIT without even getting messed up at all As you see, it is VERY simple and it does not matter where the location is you are looking for. You always have a direct visual reference (your HSI as map) with your own position displayed (the end of the bearing marker), BE itself the middle of your HSI ..and a reference range which can variate of course (from the middle of HSI to the end of the bearing marker). Whenever you get a BE call, you just have to "draw" that line from the middle to there (just use the 360° BE Map = HSI) and visualize the range refering to your own range. That way you always instantly "read" (not calculate) any given BE call ! If you get good in this, you even can compare your radar lock (MFD read-out) and call bandits positions. Its not 100% accurate to the digit, but good enough to let every flight member know, where the bad guy is...and that pretty accrurate. You also can use this method to spot ground targets very precise. All you need to do, is to read out the BE coordinates from the MAP before you hit fly and write them down. Then you can add the threat ranges or/and your attack profile (from what side to engagen, what distance to keep, etc etc). You will find targets without searching always for visual little dots in the "textures". (night, camoflage etc etc) For tactical or strategical scenarios (wider airspace) this is excellent... in close combat formations BE-calls are not advisable, there flight- and combat-calls take over according to flight tactics. Yet in some cases BE calls can be even there very helpfull! (pop ups...re-group (rally point)...coordinated flight with other packages, ...etc etc etc) It is also wise to define a "comfortable" BE (can also be any rtb point runway etc)...to expected combat area. Mindplay with this....you will see, it will make "klick" :smilewink:

dont play around with fogparam values in gfx.cfg to much :music_whistling: dunno ..check it.....can* cause unvisible (transparent) jets flying around if you mess around with it wrong

Open Falcon Freeware: Mod/Add-on based on original Falcon 4.0 from Micropose Installer can be found here: http://www.f4support.com/forums/index.php Not user friendly for those new to the F4 sim. Hardest F4 version to install Most realistic F4 version for the F-16 (F4 is an F-16 sim after all), because it has the most realistic avionics suite for F-16 in comparison to other F4 versions Hardest on your PC (FPS) / Minimum requirements are high You actually use the radios in the jet to communicate (IVC) You can set up your own Data Cartridge and use realistic features of Data Link (Improved Data Modem). Worst Campaign and Mission Builder Good graphics. Better then AF, comparable with FF5 Very stable multiplayer if configured correctly Current development is cosmetic improvements only by the community here. Original OF dev team is no longer, and we can't edit the exe to make significant changes. Allied Force Payware: Leadpursuit http://www.lead-pursuit.com/news.htm my personal suggestion to use in combo with: HiTilesAF Terrain Mods: http://www.hitiles.com/indexF4AF.htm Aeyes 3D cockpits f16am_wide_superpit_v1.0.exe f16am_wide_superpit_v1.1.exe f16am_wide_superpit_v1.4.exe from cockpit.nl: http://www.cockpits.nl/ for widescreens or Zerk 3D pit 2.0 (freeware) http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/s...d.php?t=113210 Most user friendly Easiest to install Dynamic Weather (something OF/FF/RV don't have) Limited options to configure/customize your install Easiest on your PC No cockpits for other aircraft, and no 6DOF or 'clickable' 3D cockpits Best Campaign and Mission Builder Worst Graphics Rock solid multiplayer Limited weapons (no JDAMs, JSOWs, etc...), and some weapons systems are simplified (HARM, Mavericks, GBUs, and threat circles) Development has been finished for a long time. Nothing new will come out for AF. And Lead Pursuit doesn't offer any support. Only support available is over at frugals forum. Free Falcon 5 Freeware: stand-alone istallation Installer can be found here: http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/ Newest release from the F4 community (much hyped). But like all new F4 releases, it has some bugs in its current state. (EDIT: Hotfix has been released, which means less bugs) Easier to install then OF (don't need original Falcon 4.0 CD), but still harder to install and set up then AF. Comes with far more 2D/3D cockpits for other (non-F16) aircraft Harder on your PC then AF but better then OF Fully functional Carrier Ops Better Campaign and Mission Builder then OF but not as good as AF Great graphics, arguably the best graphics of all F4 versions Unstable multiplayer (for the large majority of users). Same issues for MP as FF4/RV had. Development team is still together and making improvements. Patch/Hot Fix is being worked on to try and fix the bugs (hot fix has been released and is available at freefalcon.com). And support is available by devs at free falcon forum FF4/RV FF5 lite Coming Soon/Hype SevenG: An F/A-18 sim that has a lot of potential and a great dev team. Expected release date is Jan. 1st 2010. (already past) DCS Black Shark w/ A-10C Add-on: Hyped to be best A-10C sim. Also supposed to have F-16 and other Russian fixed wing aircraft add-ons on the way w/ ~9 month intervals between releases. Fighter Ops Rumors/Buzz Lead Pursuit is working on something but won't say what it is... Open Falcon 5.0 or BMS 5.0 is closing ...:music_whistling: ( i haven´t said that) Dead/RIP The original OF dev team SAAFOPS The Free Falcon/Red Viper joint dev team (they split into 2 separate groups) Cheers ********* Personal add from me: FreeFalcon and Openfalcon are definitly worth trying or giving it a shot...for sure... A very good source of any kind of dicsussions based on falcon is always good ole frugals forums. http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/ (currently down) But for most online expierience and stability i suggest FalconAF. (Hyperlobby support also) For TCL www.teamcombatleague.ca we only use Falcon Allied Forces !

AF ....stand alone OF ... original 4.0 and OF FF5 ... stand alone install (nothing else needed)

I do try Open Falcon and/or Free Falcon occasionally, but yes, i do play AF intensively and primarily. It has in many aspects more depth and substance then good ole LockOn.

This pdf-manual visualizes the performance datas for the F-16C-52 (Falcon AF) and it is based on an extraction from the sim-data itself (1:1). The graphs display values for 25%, 50% and 100% fuel at 1000ft, 5000ft, 10.000ft, 15.000ft, 20.000ft and 25.000 feet. EM-Charts Horizontal Acceleration Vertical Acceleration Decceleration Download: www.as-private.com/FlightDocs/F-16C-52-Performance-Charts.rar (edit: fixed version up)

quote: "..isnt it always like that, if someone has something you want, just make him to an enemy.."

read what i posted one post before you GOOD.. (1st line and point 2.)

again Ahaus?...

more community, more squads, more history, much muuch more drama :D