Chivas

My point still stands, the light points on the Rift headset/controllers don't pass data. The Lighthouse sensors do, and there are 19 sensors on each controller, and quite a few on the headset. The Lighthouse sensors could still be cheap, but not as cheap as the constellation passive diodes, or whatever they are on the Rift. Both systems can have five parts, a headset, two controllers, and two trackers. All else being equal if one company sells their hardware near cost, as Oculus has suggested they will, then its quite likely the Vive system could be at least a hundred dollars more expensive. Not to mention Oculus partnership with Samsung could avail them custom displays at a cheaper price point than Vive. HTC does not manufacture their own displays, and would have to contract them out. No word yet, on Vives display manufacturer, or what type of contract/partnership they have with them. Vive could obvious also sell their hardware near cost, but they haven't suggested they will. Considering HTC current problems, and the double digit loss in share price since the delay announcement, its unlikely they are in the mood to sell their hardware near cost. If I were a betting man, I'd say Oculus had a considerable advantage. That said, Vive's delay, and the suggested reason for the delay could easily change the betting line. I'm not so sure, but hoping that the first consumer versions of VR headsets are good enough for flight sims. Hopefully whatever breakthrough Vive/Valve have made will make decent VR for flight sims more likely in the first consumer versions.

I couldn't find the link, but if I remember correctly, part of the reason is the more expensive active sensors on the Lighthouse system, as opposed to the less expensive passive sensors on the Constellation system. BUT it could be a wash if the cameras are more expensive than the Laser boxes. One system may have lower latency numbers than the other, but users have experienced no noticeable difference in latencies in either system, so if one is slightly faster, does it really matter. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out why Palmer would prefer full body, and facial expression tracking, that's easier to implement with cameras.

Interesting I read that the Lighthouse tracking was significantly more expensive than the Oculus cameras, which is one of the reasons that the Vive system will more expensive. I read this quite sometime ago, but will try to find a link. Palmer did state they looked at the Lighthouse tracking, but wanted something that would more easily track full body movement, and facial expression. One reason shop simulator only shows the hands in their demos, is there is a problem in that only the hands are tracked, and any difference between how the body is displayed, and its actual movement causes major problems for the user. Interestingly they found when only the hands are displayed, users imaginations just filled in the missing parts.

Lighthouse may or may not be more advanced, and think there are pros and cons to each system. Both systems are still in flux so specs/features could easily change. Oculus current demos of the Touch inputs have put the two camera trackers more infront of the user, where it works better for the vast majority of current VR software content. There will be occlusion problems for any two component tracking system, unless Lighthouse can see thru the body, arms, hands, which it can't. Oculus looked all types of tracking systems, and I think they chose the camera system, because it made it easier ,and cheaper to track full body, and facial movement. Personally I think the Oculus Touch inputs are better and more versatile than the Wands because of the added finger dexterity, and tracking feature. That said the Vive wands are going thru a major overhaul and could easily add a feature like that.

HTC is suggesting that the consumer Vive changes will include better weight distribution. Currently the HMD weight is too far forward, so they are changing the strapping system etc for better balance. They are also changing the wands, for better balance. These changes can't be the technological breakthrough they've hinted at. I'm assuming that Vive came to the realization that they couldn't compete with the Oculus price, and specs, so have delayed their headset to add whatever the tech breakthrough they've found to atleast compete, or dominate Oculus. depending on the quality of their tech breakthrough. Unless Oculus is really confident with their final specs, you can bet that Oculus is scrambling to find out what that tech breakthrough is. Oculus and Vive have been experimenting with some sort HDR lighting display that will blow away any of the current HMD's. Valves techs say it gives an awesome experience before it melts down. Its a beach demo where the actually feel the heat of the sun, which could also be part of the problem. ;) So much so its very disappointing when they go back to the current headset tech. Interesting times.

The HTC has suggested that the Vive was delayed because Valve made some sort of breakthrough design. Very interesting, hopefully its has something to do with improving the display resolution, or it could also be a very good tactic to make people second guess their decision to buy the Rift. OR more importantly slow down the hit their stocks are taking since the delay announcement.

I agree, both products should be very good, while the Rift with inputs should be cheaper than the Vive, for the reasons that I have stated in previous posts. As primarily a flight simmer, I'll also have the even cheaper option of buying the Rift without the VR inputs I won't require. That said, Price isn't the main factor for me, so I will buy the product that has the better headset specs. Even if I have to wait an extra month or two for the Vive unit, it won't be that much of a problem, as I will probably have to wait for a new video card to run sims in VR. I'm not going to upgrade my 580 to the 980, but wait for the latest Nvidia/AMD video cards due out next year. BUT I'm not so sure I'll have the patience to wait, especially if those new video cards require a new type of slot/motherboard.

Oculus has announced that Eve Valkyrie will be bundled with the Rift Preorder. Palmer Luckey also suggested there could more major titles bundled with the Rift.

HTC just suggested that Vive preorders will start in Feb with the release in Apr. There are no set timelines between preorders, and shipping dates. Since Rifts are currently on the assembly lines, and if things are going well, Oculus could easily announce preorders in late Dec, early Jan, and ship in Feb. Its all speculation, there is nothing out there to suggest it will, or won't happen.

HTC Vive is suggesting preorders will start in Feb.

The Vive unit might well be the best VR product, but Oculus isn't selling the DK2 as the consumer version. I didn't like my DK2 either, as I couldn't adjust it to suit my IPD. I still have hopes as the CV1 will have a physical IPD adjustment, and the Eve Valkyrie devs suggest that first time users are playing their sim for hours with no simulator sickness problems. I think the new VR hardware is beyond the simulation sickness problem for most people, BUT simulation sickness can still be a problem IF the software developers don't follow the VR best practices guide. They can create software that could make most people sick, no matter how good the hardware is.

Oculus would have definitely countered Vive this year with their preorder announcement, but now that Vive has been delayed there is no longer any pressure on Oculus to do so. That said, I don't see the Rift being delayed as they've had consumer headsets coming off their assembly lines for sometime. They only pressure for Oculus to announce preorders this year is to take advantage of peoples Christmas spending fund. My guess is, unless there are problems with the headsets currently coming off the assembly lines, we should see the Rift on sale early in the first quarter, rather than later in the first quarter.

You always have to expect delays, and thought from the start that Vive's first announcement would be very difficult to accomplish, especially since their last prototypes, were still missing features like Audio, etc. I would imagine their next dev prototype will include the audio features, etc so software devs can better optimize their content. Oculus should come out sooner than the Vive, but again the release dates should be close enough that it really doesn't matter, as most people will give specs/content/price a much higher priority. This change in release timing, now gives Vive a slight edge, as Oculus will likely announce their Specs/Content bundle/Price first allowing Vive to counter. One example could be a better Content bundle, etc etc depending on the hardware /content/price contrasts.

Nice clouds, to bad it seems to be a Sony HMD exclusive. I doubt that it will have enough complexity for the hardcore cfs community, but it could eventually interest more people into complex sims. :)

Elite Dangerous is still working with Oculus. Elite Dangerous is having issues with Oculus's lastest SDK version. I can see there being issues until the consumer versions SDK is released. It must be a real pain in the arse to constantly revise your software to fit continually changing SDK's for unfinished hardware. Thing's should be ironed out by the time the consumer versions are released, and become another pain in the arse when next consumer versions come out.

As I suspected HTC is hinting that the Vive will be delayed until early next year. The good news is they expect the available content will be as high as three digits. Expect announcement in the coming weeks, probably before the end of the year. [ame] [/ame]

Sometimes SL1 syncing creates stutter, which is the last thing that VR needs. Since NVidia, and AMD are working closely with VR devs, this issues could become a non-issue at some point. Up to this point, I've only configured an SL1 system once, and found it better just to have the best single gpu possible. Hopefully the next generation gpus will be powerful enough that SL1 won't be required for VR, as a single gpu is much cheaper than buying two, along with a compatible motherboard.

Vicx... interesting point about the pilots body/arms. Jobsimulator working with Oculus Touch and the Vive wands found that modeling the whole body can cause lose of presence, when peoples actual body movement was slightly different than what is displayed, as just the hand area is actually tracked. They found that its best just to display hands, and peoples brains just fill in the other body parts with few issues.

Hopefully DCS WW2 will someday incorporate four engine bombers like the B17, and Lanc. I would pay three times the amount DCS charges for single engine aircraft. Although I'm not so sure the development time would be any longer than simulating the much more complex modern jet avionics. There were rumours that the DCS Normandy map would include a narrow slice of the English coast. There were many heavy bomber mission before, during, and after the Normandy invasion. The shorter flight times, would be very popular for many flight simmers. I believe it would be a huge mistake for the devs not to add a very narrow slice of the English coast in the Normandy map.

You probably won't see any mods of that type from me. I have no use for clickable cockpits, and prefer programming actions to my HOTA's actual switches/rotaries, with their inherent haptic feedback. I don't see gloves having quality haptic feedback for sometime, and one of the reasons some people might prefer the Touch inputs for clickable cockpits.

Oh the perception problem is obviously still there. Which you've statement proves.

I never once thought it would take off. It was just a mod idea that some people might contemplate if they were really into clickable cockpits. To many unknowns, at this point, and would depend on the accuracy of the VR inputs, and how well the sim integrates VR inputs. The physical docking stations would be relatively easy to create, as there would be no electronics required.

I thought it was obvious. You can't see the "INPUTS", keyboard, anything while in VR, so it doesn't matter if the inputs look like wands, or touch, or anything else. I don't think you quite understand. The Touch inputs are your stick, throttle, and clickable cockpit input. You don't drop the inputs and find your stick and throttle, you put the Touch units back in their modded docking station that returns them to throttle/Stick mode. When you remove one or the other from their docking station it goes into cockpit toggle mode, until you return it to its docking station. The throttle docking station would be similar to an aircraft throttle, with moveable leaver, with a horizontal docking station for the Touch input, which no becomes the throttle handle. The Stick docking station would have a universal vertical docking station. The docking stations just provides the resistance and appropriately allowed direction of movement. Just thinking out loud here, and currently prefer programming cockpit inputs to my Hotas system. The mod probably wouldn't be doable without considerable work being done in the games input code anyway. I know DCS is looking at the integrating the VR inputs, but not sure if that's just the Vive Wands, or even what assignments they are considering. I don't much care for the idea of letting go of a stick or throttle, finding the Wand/Touch and then clicking the appropriate switch. Thus the docking station idea.

Of course they can be seen, but they could be take any form the devs can imagine. In the demos I've seen Oculus represents the Touch inputs as hands, which would work well in flight sims. Hands resting on the stick/throttle simulated for that particular aircraft, and hands moving around to adjust cockpit switches. I've chosen the Oculus Touch inputs for now as their current prototype has some finger dexterity that can also be tracked.

The Vive could well be the most Geek friendly option. Personally I think your totally off base thinking that the CV1 will just be a polished DK2. The DK2 is even old in the VR prototype evolution, never mind consumer versions. We still don't know the final specs of the Vive or Rift, but the wait shouldn't be much longer.