MiloMorai

How does that add to the discussion?

For those that would like a little history to go with their gaming: https://etd.ohiolink.edu/ap/10?0::NO:10:P10_ACCESSION_NUM:osu1114180918 ANGLO-AMERICAN AIR INTELLIGENCE, BOMB DAMAGE ASSESSMENT, AND THE BOMBING CAMPAIGNS AGAINST GERMANY, 1914-1945

You can look here, http://www.ww2.dk/

new builds 1944 109-G-14 > 1988 109G-14/U4 > 591 109G-14/AS > 1226 109G-6/AS > 1 (all others were conversions) If you want to see monthly outputs and other models http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=2462&highlight=neubau+109&page=3 Post #28

A few K-4s had Flettners on the ailerons. Pilots didn't like them, saying they lost precision while maneuvering.

There are others like Africa and Barbarossa which should come before Berlin.

That would be the 1.80ata K-4, right? I want to see as may a/c as possible, not a/c like the 1.98ata K-4, Ta-152H and P-47M which had little operational usage and little impact on the air war. Jug with missing engine parts

No gavagai, it is about some lufties wanting a 1945 a/c to be able to dominate Allied a/c in 1944 scenarios, an a/c that was only available in the last 6 weeks of the war in Europe in minuscule numbers and played no significant role in the air battles. Please note the title of this forum > Europe 1944 The lufties would be screaming blue murder if the P-47M, an a/c that would be dominate from ground level to ceiling, was planed for inclusion.

I said: C3 was not used in large quantities until the Fw190A with the BMW801D engine came into service. which was in response to: it was a standard fuel used by the Luftwaffe in large quantities since 1939/40. by Kurfurst C3 was in short supply as the Bf110s had DB601A engines installed instead of the DB601N. (read back in the thread) The majority of Luftwaffe a/c used B4 in 1940 (hardly standard and in large quantities). Only for a short time when the BF109F-1,2 was in service was C3 used in greater quantities. The bf109F-4 reverted to B4 fuel. No I didn't read anything in the link because I am not going to spend half a day searching. Be more specific regarding which document(s) under which heading. The sturmvogel link was only FYI, if you were interested. Google search will give you all kinds of links to the USSBS. This link will have you occupied for a long time, http://www.wwiiarchives.net/servlet/action/documents/usa/103/0

Jugs are tough. So are their pilots.

http://www.ww2.dk/Airfields%20-%20France.pdf List the 726 Luftwaffe airfields in France. Includes Corsican and the Channel Islands. Should be a help for map makers (gives location and description), scenario builders and those with a history interest. Also, the site has a listing of German and Austrian airfields. http://www.ww2.dk/lwairfields.html

Pre-1939, 1940 is not 1943. It was claimed C3 was in wide spread use in these years which is clearly erroneous. This graphic is from the USSBS: Here you can add up the B4 and C3 a/c and see which fuel was in greater demand. http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/LWJul42.html#May43 Also from the USSBS Consumption of oil exceeded production from May 1944 on. Accumulated stocks were rapidly used up, and in six months were practically exhausted. The loss of oil production was sharply felt by the armed forces. In August the final run-in-time for aircraft engines was cut from two hours to one-half hour. For lack of fuel, pilot training, previously cut down, was further curtailed. Through the summer, the movement of German Panzer Divisions in the field was hampered more and more seriously as a result of losses in combat and mounting transportation difficulties, together with the fall in fuel production. By December, according to Speer, the fuel shortage had reached catastrophic proportions. When the Germans launched their counter-offensive on December 16, 1944, their reserves of fuel were insufficient to support the operation. They counted on capturing Allied stocks. Failing in this, many panzer units were lost when they ran out of gasoline. In February and March of 1945 the Germans massed 1,200 tanks on the Baranov bridgehead at the Vistula to check the Russians. They were immobilized for lack of gasoline and overrun. As these thread is about the K-4, any mention of fuel pre-mid 1944 is a distraction and irrelevant to the discussion. This 1/2 hour break in time caused numerous engine problems, and failures.

Who said that? Revisionist history. The British were making their own 100 octane fuel. The American 100 octane only supplemented the British stock. So even less C3 available for 1.98ata K-4s. As you seemed to have ignored this Kurfurst, I will repeat, "the fuel situation made it difficult to keep the DB601N in operation, and at least Me 110 production was ordered to go back to the DB601A predominantly while the DB601N was phased out in favour of the DB601E."

" C-3 at the end of the European war the USN found to be less than Grade 100/130 at the lean rating and approximately equal at the rich rating. with 4.35cc lead per gallon"

RLM data for BAL aircraft Jan 41 E6N -1 E7-19 E7N-13 F 0-1 F 1-30 F 2-27 TOTAL=91 Feb 41 E7N-20 F 1-26 F 2-81 T 2-1 TOTAL=128 Mar 41 E7N-1 E7N/Z-37 F 1-36 F 2-149 F2Z-59 F 4-0 TOTAL=278 Apr 41 E7N/Z-20 F 1-40 F 2-277 F2/F2Z-56 F 4-0 TOTAL=391 May 41 F 0-2 F 1-23 F 2-287 F 4-61 TOTAL=373 22.01.1941: The Leitender Chef-Ingenieur has considered the fuel situation and suggest to possibly convert the Me 110 to DB601A engines. Beginning in May 1941 F-4s began coming off the production lines. This a/c used the DB601E engine which burned B4 fuel. From then on the standard fuel used by the Bf109 was B4.

It was in rebuttal to these erroneous statement: "the usage of 150 grade C-3 type fuel" "it was a standard fuel used by the Luftwaffe in large quantities since 1939/40."

Not really as it could be just be a 1.80ata K-4 or G-10.

C3 was not used in large quantities until the Fw190A with the BMW801D engine came into service. The was a few 109s and 110s late in the BoB that used C3 but it was in short supply. " the fuel situation made it difficult to keep the DB601N in operation, and at least Me 110 production was ordered to go back to the DB601A predominantly while the DB601N was phased out in favour of the DB601E." http://www.allaboutwarfare.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=515 " C-3 at the end of the European war the USN found to be less than Grade 100/130 at the lean rating and approximately equal at the rich rating. with 4.35cc lead per gallon"

Sorry no. The text, that a person translated to English, was saved from a very old thread on 1.98ata. The quality of C3 fuel was problematic as noted in the translated document.

One squadron, No.130, with Spitfire XIVs. Spitfire XIVs are not Spitfire IXs. As for the other posts, other Marks are irrelevant as this thread is about the Mk V and Mk IX, so please don't clutter the thread with unrelated info.

1.)Boost 1,8ata with B4 fuel Reason for the meeting were the problems in “field” and at the serial production facility “Genshagen” because of the “white flame” effect during the use of the Higher output. First it is shown by Hr. Dr. Scherenberg how the “white flame” followed by burned pistons, develop. Because of the results of the engine knocking test the lower quality of the fuel is the main reason for the problems. DB has allready solved the problem with adjusting the ignition timing by 5°(???) . This allowes the use of “Sondernotleistung” and the 1.45 and 1.80ata settings. But because of later ignition , 50PS are lost during the “Sondernotleistung”, Where the 1,45 ata setting doesn’t lose power. DB although mentions the problems with the bad fit of the valvesitrings or the plug thread , that where reasons for the glow-ignition too. But because of improovments in the production these failurs are said to be canceled. All agreed and the decision was done, that all engines should get the new ignition time. The lose of power is not so critical. But, because of hints from DB (DaimlerBenz), there should be test flight with 5 planes within all alts, but especially above rated alt, to get knowledge about the power loose above rated alt. END SHEET ONE This will be done at II/JG11. It is asked, if the ignition timing can be set on old value if better fuel quality is back. Answer is delayed till it is for sure that only better fuel is used, and if it is shown, that later ignition does have no influence on the planes perfromance. DB mentions that the later ignition point although is better for the plugs that have a thermal problem at all. It is mentioned too, that the performance lose will be decrease with increasing engine run time , means with less oil lose. It indicates too, that new engines with less oil usage are better in performance than the ones with at first high usage and the lower usage of oil. From the troop should be taken 1 engine with 15-20h for oil consumption and performance tests to be done in Genshagen. Because the b4 fuel is mostly used in the east, the order for the new ignition point/time should get out asap by… 2.)1.98 boost with c3 fuel the first report shows, that the test with the 1.9, and 1.98 boost had negative results. Then a telegram from Rechlin was shown (they tested 4 engines) that criticized the clearing of the Sondernotleistung by Gen. Ing. Paul direct from the company to A.Galland bevor sufficient tests were done. Rechlin although defend themselves, that they did NOT give the new boost free for the Troop. (looks like some thought they did). DB on the other hand shows their positive test results for the 1.9 , 1.98 usage. They say, that the clearance for the 1.98 boost was given with the same TAGL (?) (think a kind of order) as the 1.8 ata boost was cleared..both on the same day!. SHEET THREE It was then decided (after hearing all the reports) than currently only II/JG11 should test the 1.98 boost and that the 1.9ata engine test should be finished when the engines failed. (so no more test after them). The JG should then only get 1.8 ata engine supplies. Heavy punnishment is threaten when this order is not followed. The 1.98 clearance decission may only come from department 4 of general staff. It is suggested that some recon planes should be equiped with 1.98 boost. Decission was not done. To disburden the current 1.98 and 1.9 engines it is suggested to give them the new ignition time too. So, all engines flowen with the sondernotleistung will Be set to the new ignition point/time. The JG’s in field complain about the plug failurs. Especially in the last time the number of failurs increased. DB reports about improoved plug modells and better quality control e.g. with x-ray controlling. Again DB points out that the cooling of the 109 is insufficient and wishes that the LW will solve this problem asap. This was mentioned by Gen.-Ing Paul and arrangements where done instandly. DB points out that the performance of the “cell” (fuselage/wings) is extremely bad, and even worser J. It makes no sense to increase the power output of the engine when on the other side the plane quality is decreasing dramatically. Is is reported that a comparison of a 109 with a mustang was arranged for Mr. Sauer, but he failed to come. The result of the comparison was, spoken of produktion quality only, shocking for the 109. SHEET FOUR At the end of the meeting, from Mr. Dr. Scherenberg points out that DB allready is testing a boost up to 2.3ata (J). But it can be not juged in any way because of only a low test base at the moment.

This might help with American bombs, http://www.303rdbg.com/bombs.html

Or Found On Road Dead.:helpsmilie::)

So what a waste all those bubble canopies are then.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/page1/ 4576 photos of Bf109s