Solty

Was it trimmed?

No she wouldn't turn like hell, she would stall. You don't even understand what is being said. Listen i am not trying to disagree that the low speed stick deflection is right. What i am saying is that the 109 is not an easy airplane to operate at higher speeds but lowered operating speed of the stick movement and lowered max deflection should occur at higher speeds. Again, the data at above 750kph is extrapolated and is only an estimation. And I will not stoop down to your petty insults. One can speak about the 109 without owning it. Its not as if money gives knowledge. I would also like to point out that DavidRed is the first man to reject the control stiffness as a whole when it came out.

LOL. One doesn't have own a plane to read about it:smartass: BTW you talk a lot about the Spitfire and do not even have it? Is that some indication? 109 was one of my primary planes of choice when I was a teen. Flying in good old IL2 46 where the 109 was one of the best airplanes. Especially the 109G2 and F4. One of the two main types of airplanes that I "flew" at that time. 109 and the Spitfire. P-51 was my fav looking airplane, but was too hard for me at that time. Later, when I read more about air combat, it became clear to me that P-51D is my all time fav, but without 109 and Spit and later P40, I wouldn't have achieved the P-51 :)

The kurfurst, that makes sense, but still, we do not have measured roll test at speed above 850kph. But I would say it is safe to assume that roll otherwise would be similar to older G types.

Exactly what I said above 750kph the line changes to dotted one and the description says its extrapoliert. That means extrapolated. So they never got to 800kph and 30kg.

Can you stop being snarky? I saw data that kurfurst has shown in some thread where the document has indicated that the data over certain speeds was extrapolated mathematically. I cannot check it right now. I am at work.

Cool, because in DCS at VNe of 505mph the P51 losses all control surfaces. ;) Also, even if it was dove over the limit, it doesn't mean there was a roll test done over that limit and any data might be just extrapolated.:detective:

That doest mean it is easily and quickly achievable and especially during prollonged dogfights. Also show me a test at 800kph if the max safe speed for the 109 was 750kph

Yes, but the stick length, available room and sitting position differ, which make for different results.

I don't know how it is now, but from what I read, the 109 should be pleasant before 400kph, getting progressively stiffer and at 550 the pilot is not able to move the stick with one hand and needs two and considerable force. While at 700kph the force needed would be too much for an average man to move the ailerons but elevator would be operational but barely. Conclusion is that, bellow 400kph stick should be easy to move around and deflect, at 400 and above person if doing it one handed would be able to move the stick but with more stenght with each kph gained. He would be able to deflect it fully, but slower due to overcoming the rising stick forces. G would also affect him as it has a great effect on a person.

+1

There are RL pilots that do not understand that pulling on the stick at low speed won't move your airplane upwards. In fact I saw a instructional video that said it is one of the most pilot killing accidents. A real life pilot seeing a mountain and pulling on the stick to get over it, while he is unable to ascend. What does he do? Pulls more, stalls and dies. Just being a pilot doesn't make one Chuck Yeager.

They are just a dot!:huh:

What is an Ace if not an exception to the rule? I take inspiration out of those that mastered their machines and themselves, even if I fail.

Exactly as sokol linked (you can search for it clicking Ctrl+F and typing flaps), and let me get the most vivid examples of that. An interesting dogfight during which, well known ace J.C Meyer went into a turnfight with a 109 in Belgium. He saw the German drop flaps and he droped his own firstly 10 deg, then 20 deg. He also describes what the flaps did to his flight envelope. He also says that to disengage he used his 67'hg MAP for constant 30min. Also, his squadronmate, Sanford Moats There are many more, and they are all thrilling to read.:book:

P51D spins, although it is realy easy to get out if. 190 IRL was known for its abrupt and vicious stall. I have yet to see the 109 spin in DCS after last patches. But few of them tumbled. Do u have the latest version of DCS?

You did it gents. :)

Reliability of those engines was none, so switching to them would not be the best idea in 42, heck even 43.

No. But I still prefer 51s cockpit layout. Especially because the temperatures in 190 are nearly hidden from the pilot. The only thing about the Mustang is that altimeter is behind the throttle. Also, it's my opinion, not a fact.

Well, as all new airplanes Kurfurst, first production 190's had their issues. But the 190's issue was the engine, which was supposedly chosen because DB605 was already taken by the Me serries. To me the ergonomics of the 190 are fine. They are not super great. Especially the temp gauges are low and small. That said, what makes the 190 for me, is the ability to dive away from most enemies of its time and roll out of the attack. Not to mention scissors. It is also the truth that the 109 in 1939 and 1940, 41, was fighting with illequiped air forces. Polish airforce was small and behind in terms of aircraft. All other countries had inexperienced and poorly trained or poorly organised airforces. Soviet union scores the worst scores, even though it had massive airfroce, most of it was I-15 and I-153 biplanes, their pilots had no training, their doctrine was illequiped and their planes didn't have radio's for a long time. These are the enemies of the 109. Either illequiped or untrained and inexprienced airforces.

Spitfire LF. MkIXc 18lbs

Don't get hyped both K4 and D9 are faster. Sure it is a good airplane, especially a good ground pounder. To me the visibility to the back disqualifies it as great fighter, even though it has very good flying qualities. But I wish we would get it sooner. It is an icon and actually a good plane that could open lots of new posibilities to make missions. Especially if LN brings a new theater to play in and an adversary :3

Eekz, what monitor do u have? I use Samsung 21,5 inch at 1920x1080 and my ability to see an airplane is as follows. From 25km I can see a P51 as a dot, from 15km the 190 and from 5 the 109. That is, if they don't disappear due to magic. I had once a situation, where I was looking for bandits and saw a single dot. I've turned into him. I flew closer and saw that the one bogey is not alone, but is in a close formation with 3 109s. Later the same day I saw another formation with similar numbers and spotted the 190 way before 109s. I want to mention, that overall spotting is very tough, and dots pop in and out and airplanes disappear in thin air.

It's the fault of the German players, that constantly fly over Novo like vultures BTW, I have noticed that 190 and P51 get destroyed easily by AAA, while 109s fly around without any harm and strafe.

Well, not really. The 190 has amazing roll at medium speeds, which peaks at around 420kph. At 580 their roll is nearly the same. Above that, the P51 becomes superior. But yeah, what 190 can do with its roll is like magic. :3