Worrazen

Reminds me what I was thinking lately, shouldn't the older modules get updated for their weapons options too like A-10C, if they're using it in the current edition aircraft then we should be allowed to use it too ... UNLESS there's a real technical thing preventing the older editions in real life from using new edition weapons? It's not a slam dunk then IMO, opens up the question how strict should the timeline simulation be, so for example like with F-16 which picks the 2007 timeline. Or maybe the use of the timeline incompatible weapons could be disallowed in campaign and MP and allowed in quickplay and custom missions. Could be a map options to, settings, overridable per-map like other stuff. EDIT: I'm saying that based on the fact I don't think I ever saw GBU-24 for A10-C ... I should double check now ...

Looks like a similar enough thread, so I'll mention something I wanted to talk about for some time: AA Guns mounted on Toyota Truck .... WHEN !?!?!?! Sorry for a low effort post and a joke reference to the dynamic campaign thread, but I'm going to leave this one sit, I've done enough brainstorming around DCS for the week ;)

DCS may have this functionality but it's deep in the API which requires some scripting/modding, I haven't looked that deeply to that stuff yet and I think there is more than it's possible, probably that's how trailers are made, if it's not using some internal tool. And there's more external views than the apparent ones, just look at controls, you have several modes on each of the F keys.

Yes but if laws change, the Russian Govt identifies this as legitimate economical and cultural segment, historical preservation, then there may be much better conditions. Because the info around is scarse or at least to me as I probably didn't go that deep as I could (yet), I don't even know if the problem is with the laws/govt, and I think I heard it may just be the problem of customer demand/finance, but that alone just doesn't make sense IMO.

Yeah that's a bigger deal than it sounds, proper AI that doesn't cheat is a rare thing out there, Starcraft 2 is one that also does it right AFAIK, but otherwise in entertainment gaming the AI's always seem to see stuff they shouldn't.

Clearing wreckages ... ofcourse omg how did I forget that, that really adds another big reason for this feature, thanks for the headsup.

While simulating more niche and side stuff falls out of the main focus of this sim usually, except if's part of a specific module like let's say Carrier operations, so isn't this a similar case? This is a good case (or excuse :p) to have proper models of a few examples of some construction vehicles, enough to sell the idea of a repair of the runway, one bulldozer, one excavator, two kind of tipper trucks, one loader and one concrete truck, and there we go, you could use these units as civilan unarmed units just like they're no different, but it doesn't have to be a super-looking model like the rest, the models shouldn't need that much animations but it would be a bonus, you don't need to simulate sand dirt and pouring concrete, it's just visualized and the units are collidable and real entities on the runway, it would definitely look good if they had some movement to them like looping a few animations but without any complicated driving or jerking around, they would just roll out of the spawnpoint facility and drive to the runway essentially blocking it which is the main point, they would create more obstacles on the runway rendering it even more useless which is realism right, so even if you could potentially crash land and still be kinda good and repair, now you probably shouldn't even try landing until the repair is complete, the other the main point is that the repair process could potentially be interrupted/paused if the construction units get destroyed. This introduces a new gameplay depth and a twist of defending the repair of the airfield and also being handicapped from repairing/reloading/refueling your aircrafts. The idea is welcome, but I rather not just do "wait 200 second for repair" or similar without anything happening to the runway. It's boring to wait for 200 seconds doing nothing right, at least you have something to watch, and more importantly something to do, DEFEND the runway repair vehicles. I hope because of gamplay it's a good enough justification to make the models that by themselfs have nothing to do with military or aviation. The models are IMO the biggest prerequisite, then it's all about the code on each and every airfield to decide which airport building will the runway repair vehicle convoy spawn out of or even add a special building from which those trucks will spawn out of if the airfield doesn't have it or they should come out from the closest civilian factory-like structure? And the rest of the code, if airfields already have their specific universal paths defined which I think they do (for airplane AIs) maybe the repair-vehicle AI could find it's own way to the site and may be easier on dev to not have to do specific scripts for each airfield, it would be kinda nice if the repair vehicles drove next to the actual damaged point of the airfiled but that would be a bit more complicated IMO, it's enough if the vehicles just drive onto the runway at either end or even both ends (two similar repair convoys) but that would make it more easily avoidable if one were try to land, but it should look better than if the system would be inacurate and they would try rolling over the craters. In the end the runway would simply pop back in, probably no need to do any animation of the hole getting filled with concrete but it may be an interesting visual que for the enemy of the progress of the repair, there's probably no need to mess with runway models, the concrete filling up can probably be done very easy by just appropriately raising a 2D flat concrete texture up to cover the crater, or maybe 3 levels of texutre, 0-50% would raise a rock texture with the colors differentiating from the crater itself ofcourse, then from 50-80% you'd it replaced by the dirt/sand texture, when it gets 80% and higher it would look like a concrete texture, that would be an even bigger visual que for not just the enemy but everyone, otherwise if you're far away you'd need to look more careful, but with a color difference it's quite telling by just glancing your eyes. Back to an earlier thing about the runway-repair-vehicle-convoy spawnpoint, having the spawn location dynamically decided from a nearby city/appropriate building or by a player that's designated the battlefield commander (forgot the actual term sorry) may not be that sure and may be unnecessairly complex, this is the depth it doesn't need to simulate, some smaller or remote cities with airfields probably don't have some kind of a building that makes sense and has some kind of a garage, and the repair vehicles might need to drive long distances and would too long to get to the airfield, the time it takes for the convoy to get to the runway should be precaculated into the standardized total repair time. Plus a bit of time it takes for them to clear the runway. Oh the main point of the runway-repair-vehicle-convoy is to avoid spawning them on the airfield where everyone would be looking, it would look unrealistic, so if they spawn from an unusual location, preferrably some covered up structure and drive out, it's a lot better, that's the whole point I should have mentioned in the beginning why I went through all the trouble talking about it. So is that good enough argument? Yes I have a bit of bias I told about it a few times, that I'm routinely traveling to places where there is construction on purpose just to see it, snap some photos, etc, infact I am going right now in a few minutes to check on the progress of the train station renovation in the city. EDIT: Oh oh and all of this runway repair process/progress/completion/runway opened/runway closed could be part of the new ATC so the ATC would be AWARE of this taking place and you could contact it and they would tell you "runway 05 is closed due to repairs. ETA 5 minutes until repairs are over" the ATC could even have it's PSAs every few minutes talking about the fact that the runway is damaged or under repair (very basic sentence just as an example here), as we can see the Carrier ATC has real people in DCS so it's all recorded for DCS and not some pre-recorded sound package, so it would be great making the new ATC flexible to various conditions taking place, so it's great I thought of this idea until it's too late, probably won't be calling people to come back to studio for just a few sound bites right, possible but unlikely.

I'd actually go all the way to have an excavator and some trucks roll out of the airport facility to come out on the runway so that it is really occupied while under repair.

Oh jeez, I was about to say in the other thread, I'm not saying like I don't enjoy the ME, but the room for improvement is large if not huge looking 10 years ahead. The first thing that popped was the Mission Planner in MP to potentially be the place where it could be quite useful, being able to draw and that drawing being drawed at realtime for others in the game lobby could be big for MP clans like Grim Reapers IMO. Oh and should be a layer so it can be displayed without the drawings if they block something under it, could even be separated to a per-player specific layers and differentiated by color even. And ofcourse the obligatory cheating thing ... should be a setting in MP whether or not server allows it in the F10 map during gameplay.

So you think the server basically plays the game it self? I actually don't know in detail so I'm speculating a bit. How can the server know if you ejected 250ms before missile hit, but your packet time is 500ms? When SAR arrives, ejections, rescues could have a big impact on the score in such a game mode, including salvaging spare parts from emergency landings, say you're A-10C went down 10 miles away from the airport, your commander could send a utility truck to recover the airplane and maybe you'd get some ammunition back, perhaps some fuel, it may not be much for one airplane but in a big game mode over many hours and many airplanes that can add up and in a resource limited RTS-style game, as it was officially I think mentioned, it will be important whether or not you really got hit by that bullet that made your gastanks leak or did you really eject and survived the missile impact for there to be anyone to rescue at all. What I'd love to see is the re-emergence of LAN ... why isn't DCS around those Russian MAKS air shows and other gatherings, there could be a small LAN party thrown each time.

Yeah good point, I would never be able to fulfill activity quota for clans and be on time, I would need to have time for it to be interesting, the time has to be right when there's time and all those things fall together, I think it's a matter of time, and it's kinda pity that it feels as if MP isn't good, no actually it's all about us and our stuff rather than MP it self, when more people will populate it that do have the time it'll be self-sustainable so there will be always someone up playing throught the day which will set the stage for everyone else who is occasional, and sure dedicated servers and other stuff will definitely help and I was reading all those happenings and this proves that I'm interested genuinely, this is again the "phantom customer" phenomenon I talked about recently, the people who wake up from the deep sleep once a feature or product is right there, so this MP effort isn't for nothing infact it's necessary to support something in it's beginnings, if there is potential, it's like a locomotive, you need a lot of power and effort to get it started and going, once it has that momentum it's a lot easier, there's so many stuff that I do every day and things come by surprise, right now I'm trying to root and clean preinstalled app bloatware off the newly bought Huawei MediaPad M5 so that it doesn't bother while my relatives will mainly use it for GPS nav, tomorrow I might be mixing some concrete to fix uneven pathway, the next day I could write some userscript code for the browser I was trying to for a few months, I want those cyrllic letters in latin and if I can't find the solution I'll just do it my self ... just yesterday I was listening to 5 hours of british pairlament .. ORDER ORDER ... THE AYS TO THE LEFT ... UNLOCK ... I think it's going to take a while before those voices get out of my head haha.

Singleplayer mostly, I just haven't yet done most of the base stuff for me to dvelve deeper heh, keep holding it off, and there's also other things like I don't think anywhere over 50 ms lag is a realistic experience to be honest, will the hits/dodges really be fair? Most of the gaming has loads of complicated netcode tricks to make things look smooth but that's all an illusion. I think DCS even if it's not regarded esports, would be justified to feature a strict latency mode where noboody could have certain network parameters over the limit for a certain amount of time if so the game would freeze completely with a standard interruption screen/overlay and displaying network info until the network has recovered. During normal gampeplay there would be a status info dialog or perhaps overlay just like the SysInfo, in which it would display the network quality between the server and yourself, with a larger page displaying the detailed info on all the players, ping in just one measurement, it would also show jitter and more importantly a history graph for these values, it would also show the upper limit of the allowed ping and jitter, but I think there could be some more that's unusual, like not relying on ping or jitter, these are sampled values over time and averages, ping is a number that usually updates only once per second or two, the response could be improved a bit and perhaps shown with precision of two decimal places, but that's just for users kicks, the system wuldn't rely on these numbers, it would directly monitor all the delays of all the packets, if there's a packet that came in a bit too late than what the threshold is then it'll kick things off whatever the condition is, it would be quite harsh if it would interrupt if only 1 packet was slightly too late, some kind of a buffer zone, if limit is 10ms and a packet somes in at 12 ms then the next one comes in at 9ms it should leave that slide, but if there's more and more packets coming in at 12-13ms repeatedly for enough time that is configured it'll keep counting that up until it triggers some action, the buffer zone let's say it would be between 10 and 20, okay so over the buffer zone, 10 is the primary limit, 20 secondary, even tertiary, if you keep running under 10ms for like hours and then one comes in at 25ms then that's a bit too high so it should have more of an severity level than a 12ms packet. That's the rough idea. However, it's all about dropping the smoothing algorithms down to that tight level, anything up it'll just freeze, which means you'll get stuttering but not if all of your private party players happen to have FTTH internet and are relatively close. So this feature would be meant for mainly ISP issues that come sporadically and randomly and may last for a couple of seconds or minutes in total. There is no punishment or anything, since this mode would be pre-negotiated and enabled so it wouldn't be forced on anyone, unless the server wants to enforce it and open to public that's their choice.

Wait, the full blown proper one? Wasn't it said it required replacing/adding texture(layer) for almost everything? Haven't looked that much into this, but it's interesting, and I can see it's definitely a big load of work.

Some sort of directed energy source

Maybe some parts of the improvements are on the "surprise" list. Chill

And Mig-21s were used all over Jugoslavia too. But IDK if you'd get a free map on the same part of the world as Caucasus, maybe it'll be the DRONK region ... did I got that right? Democratic Republic of North Korea ... wait, DPRK right.

I totally forgot about my experiences yeah, I went on a 3 days turn-off a few years back some 10-20 km out of the city up in the hills where there's barely like one or two cellphone towers in the valleys, there was only some slight signal, the quality of sleep was nothing like it, ofcourse the lack of all the stressful daily stuff was also not present, so it's a combination I would say and not concluding that it was all because of the RF/EMF, but the term electronics is the correct term and people should understand all the other things that are included in that term, the flickering LED backlight, prolonged blue light exposure (most detrimental at evening and night), thankfully I got an "eye care" monitor with DC dimming instead of PWM, but various phones and the ones I used probably don't have such features, then there's the whole other thing of the mental aspect of being stressed out with daily stuff, news, the constant messages, updates, notifications, the body can't relax, and all the other stuff, and ofcourse there was no TV or anything up there it was an old mountain house once, which also helped. Unfortunately that place went bankrupt, it's a location that's really hard for tourism because there's really not much for tourists to go anywhere or see anything. Then I had another occasion when I forgot the phone with WiFi under my pillow, I woke up with a headache on one part of my head that lasted the whole day. Months apart, I forgot my phone and fell asleep in my stomach area, i felt a mild pain almost all day below my chest ... that was many years ago and it's easy to forget and dismiss these pretty important clues. Well sort of food for thought, but you can always avoid it, no need to shut it down for those that find it interesting. I'm like this stuff for the challenge it gives for the brains to cook up new ideas of solving things, I mean, from railways to airplanes, I've always wondered why the hell don't they put parachutes on the airplanes at least, if not some kind of airbags to assist with crash landing, why don't airplanes when they have to make an risky emergency landing just crash land into a giant pool of bubble wrap instead of a rock solid runway, I mean, some solutions are so easy and some of these engineers are way overthinking and miss the simplest of the solutions, or another version, why do airplanes always need to land as fast as possible, this idea of "get on the ground quick" ... if it's stable enough, if it has enough fuel, why wouldn't they make one of two runway flybys or flybys over farmland, where passengers could drop down with parachute, and then when there is much less people onboard then they can try landing it. But let's get back on the topic now. I don't personally stand behind those quick-throw-around conclusions myself either, I think Barrie made an reference there and if he were confronted he would have said it's not his reasearch and expertise of what the facility IMO, or he would explain in detail what he thinks the mechanism is, you are right that some others throw accusations around like it's cookies to sound scarry and is not technical enough. Even if someone is wrong on the surface, the direction may not be completely wrong even if that direction is very small, they are infact wrong but it could be because they are telling a heavily more simplified version (where context and details are lost) such as saying you can die from a pink-ponk ball impact, is one example, because you can get seriously hurt by just one ping-pong ball at 1100 mph and while the Mythbusters didn't "duplicate the results" as they used to in the old days probably because of the volume of myths and the expenses, in this case it's even harder as you'd have to kill a pig to prove a thousand balls hitting a pig can kill it, you can still put one and one together to realize the probable outcome. So being hit by a thousand of those at once ... wouldn't then be a lethal weapon? The second example, the Tesla Earthquake Machine ... again they avoided the series standard of "duplicating the results" as Adam called it, which means "what it will take to make it happen at any cost". Start at: 35:06 So they strapped this one device onto a bridge and it felt like a large truck once they hit the "sweet spot" with the tuning, this is the power of resonance I spoke earlier, because the frequency of the oscillations is so well tuned with the rest of the structure that the effect is greately enhanced in intensity and travel through the material it is attached to, but resonance is not an endless boost with time, it get's up to a point and stops, the intensity won't keep building up forever, I believe that was a strawman whoever was behind the myths and stories of Tesla, we know that the CIA confiscate all the docs and Tesla never really could get his side of the story out and it's all mysterious, why did the Mythbusters management and Discovery chose to take the "endless buildup" seriously? Well it's a way to knock down the myth as busted, as you can see the duo Jamie and Adam when the show ends they usually walk away with a comment and in this case in the second video you can hear Jamie basically spilling the beans right there when he says "Hey what do you think if we'd put a couple of hundred pounds on that sucker." The Adam's convention RFID "behind the scenes" story gives credibility to what is probably going on behind other episodes and myth on the show. So back to HAARP, someone could rig some 10 generators onto those antennas, rewire some of the stuff, it can be jerry rigged for some kind of effect that the author would treat as a weapon whether or not you agree with it or even realize it, and just because the anntenas are designed for ELF doesn't mean you can't force other frequencies through them, it's just going to work very bad in terms of signal as a communication medium, but who says one would necessairly need the perfect conditions for it to be "good enough" for their purpose, there's so many possibilities, is a barrel of oil a weapon? If someone fills an aeroplane with a 1000 oil barrels and drops it down on your house is it not a weapon? You're getting yourself locked into a dead end when you try to completely eliminate all of these possibilities, I would rather just disagree with the extremely simplified, non-technical and context-less versions that some people throw around. Oh look I found one today while browsing my Steam Discovery Queue :megalol:

Sure, just remember to pour the majority of the frustrations on to the people who make those claims, rather than the thread, I'm just entertaining the ideas but I'm not making any conclusions myself, because it's a wild guess, on one end it was first and foremost a military facility, on the other hand the research and testing may have paved the way for a weapon or other things used in weapons and yes it may not have been used as a weapon but it could have tested some components of what would become a future weapon, it's no way to know for sure, why bother making any conclusions, just relax, and lastly almost anything can be repurposed into a weapon, if someone bad would take over the facility they could probably set the dials and knobs just right for some kind of an offensive effect, whatever it may be and however insignificant it may seem, maybe to jam some signals, trying to prove something's can't be a weapon is extremely hard. Didn't you ever used the airplane to slam into the enemy unit when you ran out of ammo in DCS? Right, I did it for testing to see damage simulation, I'm not encouraging the practice tho. And I responded in a literal fashion the same way the quote was ;) Plus I totally forgot about certain frequencies that could go right through the soil, rock, the earth's crust, which adds a whole other twist to this.

Wait what what? :huh: How do you think even OTH radar works ???? Certain RF signals bounce off the ionosphere and maybe some to some extent in other layers.Jeez man, if it's shot up from the ground it has to come down to the ground except if it's directed at extreme angles, possibly out of the range of the HAARP facility in that case, it would need to be higher up on a hill or mountain and direct downward at a negative local angle, then the reflections would miss hitting the ground but very close, or if it's very high up basicaly near the ionosphere and it's directed at a very small positive local angle (inverted viewpoint) which would again produce a very wide angle at the reflection point, missing the ground and reflecting within the atmosphere several times, if it works like a perfect mirror anyway, there probably would be some bit of scattering in other direction in practice. https://www.sigidwiki.com/wiki/29B6_%27Kontayner%27_OTH_Radar Then I used a rays and mirrors simulator which I never knew existed, see what positive things this thread and discussion can do :lol:, and made this demo, I had to spend some time creating an earth shillhuoette with straight blocker parts since there is no circular blocker, the ionosphere is an arc-mirror and I used a beam of rays. https://ricktu288.github.io/ray-optics/ The example I used is in the attachment if anyone wants to try the same thing without spending 30 mins on making it. https://gfycat.com/nervouszigzaggrosbeak <- click for animation And they were exactly doing that, trying to enhance the bouncing performance (ofcourse something goes through it's not 100% mirror), producing "artificial mirrors", quote off wikipedia: Now you want to hear a crazy theory, what if those "artificial mirrors" can be aimable, unlike the ionosphere, which means then it would be able to reach "anywhere in the world" if using multiple such mirrors, as if they were redirectors/satellites. But I still believe the person said that in haste, and it's probably not anywhere in the world, probably just quickly quoting the other people he heard from, so given the circumstances that shouldn't have been taken literally IMO, however being scientific yeah you can't just throw quick IMOs around. Deja Vu? A: Looks like Earth is round B: You lose credibility OTH Radar S1.json.zip

I'm still not sure about the sales argument, first problem is that there is no high-fidelity russian counterpart so any comparison is probably not fair, how is the community going to express interest if there's nothing to buy, considering you can mod the cockpit for english letters if the cyrllic would be a really big issue for the US and other customers, I keep seeing all of these hardcore DCS players and if you're going to spend so much on a PC room setup with all the gear you're probably going to end up buying most modules right? But I may be wrong. If not that one would want to eventually have as good of an AI to play against right at least, right ?!?! It's all speculation but I don't get why someone who's into AIRSIM for over a decade and happens to be from USA wouldn't buy something like a full-blown Su-27. It's not like we have that many things to pick from reality, if this was a sci-fi simulator you'd have 10 times as much made-up airplanes/modules to choose from then one that would look like Su-27 would definitely have less of a chance. I think many customers may not be apparent because this is a community with more grown up people, they don't act as vocal as the communities can be in other entertainment gaming, it's what I noticed with myself even before 2014 when I signed up here (lurked earlier, and played LOMAC back in the day ofcourse) that I routinely go into hiatus-mode with my wishes and interests many times, while in the back of my mind I'm actually always waiting, just not consciously and not constantly being reminded of it, this happened a few times and I started analyzing this phenomenon and I think it's happening out there as well, and I made a term for a person with such behavor as a "phantom customer", they're much harder to identify by the seller, which means the seller will not know they even exist. It's just any person who is occupied and does many things, not necessairly with work but with hobbies/interests and just doesn't happen to say as much when discussing, personality, no need to say more, or simply no time, but I think many unknowingly "wait" for the trigger to remind them, it gives an impression there is no demand because not enough combined talk/dust is generated. Oh you guys do remember, great, hehe, that was funny indeed because I didn't expect anyone would remember. Actually for all what I wrote in the past about the letter idea, got a bit exhausted and never ended up looking for official info how to send one, I did this time and seems like it's far easier than I thought as it's all on the Kremlin site in english explaining how to do it via mail, and even electronically via email it's basically all ready. And then yes, that's when it popped up, when I was reading through the rules, like I would probably need to be a Russian citizen for this to work or someone from Russia sending it, even tho there is no mention of a requirement of living in Russia or being a valid Russian citizen. I'll figure that one out.

Update: Oh wait, actually I went back through some of the post and material I made, there is a whole chapter about the response to the document you linked above, it's in the PDF I linked on the first page. Starts on page 28: https://www.ehtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/5g-emf-hazards-dr-martin-l.-pall-eu-emf2018-6-11us3.pdf

Here we goooooo ... oh no must not open the can of worms again ... must resist ... For those that don't have the time to browse my past posts ... TLDR: Send prez Putin a letter explaining ... well I would have to link to the wall of text cause there's so many points. http://en.letters.kremlin.ru/ http://en.letters.kremlin.ru/letters/send If someone's serious, I'd be eager to find my old posts.

Sure, if you trust that with your life, that's your choice. It's obviously too extensive for me to respond to that piece by piece, even for those who are way more familiar with this topic to do in a short amount of time, I don't want to make a cheap comment. It's rather more practical for us and everyone in this thread to just exchange viewpoints and arguments without having to go head to head knocking down each other's arguments directly. One thing I can comment on is that I see the studies referenced that seem to be lasting quite short, 10 minutes is one. The danger that critics are saying is the prolonged low-level exposure many many hours per day and especially the totally pointless exposure at night when you're not using any of these services, why does everyone have to be irradiated then when almost nobody's using it? And longterm chronic exposure through years and a whole lifetime and through many generations, who gave you the right to experiment with a whole civilization what will happen in a few generations, only then the effect may start to become noticable, by then it'll be too late for some IMO, is there any kind of compensation that's equal of worth to the damage caused? Some people will resign and some companies may go bankrupt, wait, that's it? The precautionary rule, if something's not proven safe then rather not use it, seems to be very selectively applied and not respected, or weakly defined. There appears to be a natural RF protection response in the body, but it only gets properly activated at certain conditions, and it's common sense that staying healthy will ofcourse also protect from damage, or assits in recovery, he claims that a long-term low-power exposure is more dangerous than a short-term high-power exposure. So you can also take a look at this: From: Confidential Report on TETRA Strictly for the Police Federation of England and Wales - B TROWER http://www.tetrawatch.net/papers/trower_report.pdf -------------------- And more from https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4905022/Evidence-Cuba-launched-sci-fi-sonic-weapon-America.html Hearing system United States Patent 4877027 https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-06/americans-evacuate-us-consulate-china-after-debilitating-sonic-attacks Here's a good summary of my opinion on all of this: Now, that report on TETRA was confidential for a good reason, the biggest reason is that you don't want specifics of a weapon system out in the public where a random street thug with some radio supplies could start killing people, sure we can all agree that's reasonable, same way nuclear material is transported securely by authorized personnell, and militaries want to protect their secrets that's understandable as with everything else, that's understandable, but here's the main counter-argument, my health is my primary concern over anything else, this is what every living being should have as their primary concern, however many do not, to a human body it's considered a threat, who ever uses it for whatever purpose, if it's bad for one's health it's a threat, same as a virus or bacteria. Just because some people want to use this wireless tech doesn't mean they should be able to force it's side-effects on others that do not wish to participate, it's the same thing as someone using your toothbrush, or eating from the same plate, people generally don't tolerate that do you? I nor many citizens use TETRA so why do we all have to be forcefully irradiated? If someone wants to use the benefits of an invention they should be free to but as long as it's effects or side-effects only affect them, not others who don't believe it's worth it. It's the same thing as someone would force apples down your throat when you only want bananas, that's not very democratic is it? What's the point of having a military protecting a sea of sick people ??? So to resolve this huge conflict you'll need to struck the right balance between health of citizens and the effectiveness of it's military, currently it's heavily in favor of the military usage and intelligence agencies, makes no sense at all.

Only to some degree, stealth only attenuates the signal not blocking it completely, and you're mentioning a case where a friendly is flying behind his wingman, infact for pilots this encounter could be more dangerous than anything, if they don't turn off the radar, all such aircraft should have adjustable radar settings for just such occassions and some other formation navigation system that works like a collision avoidance (which I think is already the case), including AWACS, other aircraft that are not made for stealth are even less of an reassurance because it's not going to cover the whole spectrum, you can't just make a box out of metal and expect it to work like a perfect faraday cage, unless the aircraft has shielding put on additionally, the barebone aluminum frame shouldn't be your thing you should bet your life on. As long as we don't have frequencies and power available we can only speculate what can AWACS do, but most likely the power for military type things is very high given the range of detection, and AWACS probably can operate in many types of microwave frequencies, it's probably a bad idea to be sitting on the antenna. Let's hope they had it turned off. Allright I misread that, or he edited the post, magnetic field is not the same as the gravitational field, just clearing that up. I removed the response. What's your point? Who cares if DC it self doesn't generate EMI, if the devices that run on DC do, but they do it less than AC I would assume. So if a RF weapons expert says that the WiFi frequency is a known weapons frequency you'll just disregard that? He's just one particular guy and of his caliber there are not that many or almost none that talk as much that I know. There's one other thing called TETRA which the USA does not have, it's an EU voice communication thing for emergency and law enforcement services, it's working around 390 MHz and many don't have good things to say about it. TETRA uses high power base stations installed at facilities such as hospitals, police offices, and firehouses, as well as repeater stations spread throughout the city and other areas, that pulsate at a particular pulse rate of 17.6 Hz which is close to human brain betawave frequency, exactly the kind of area is responsible for decision making in stressful situations, anyone sitting in those facilities all day is also sitting practically on the base station antenna. Then the users carry the portable TETRA walkie-talkies around their waist or chest, and you know, those things are very busy as there's almost always someone talking on the channel, they are beamed for the whole working shift every day. There are far less riskier alternatives to TETRA, that already exist.

They don't teach this in any field as it should be a field on it's own and it's a combination of knowledge from multiple one, and knowing only one ingredient of the pie is not enough. So just because human senses can't detect it, it means it doesn't exist? Nobody's talking about that. You started your investigation with pre-concieved conclusion that a RF signal has to ionize an atom for it to have any effect on human health. Again incredibly unscientific. So if it doesn't fit into your idea it's not a proper scientific paper? The full open letter PDF is 80 pages long, yes it's not a study in it self but it references a lot of studies below. That's a classic avoidance of the content, switching focus to something insignificant. They aren't qualified as you can see there is no proper field, they're just seeing it like you do, reading a few things, and then saying before really thinking, secondly the consensus you're quoting is the consensus you formed from the material you have come across across with as well as others who have came across with the same consensus that is the favorable one that the governments use, they supress everything else on purpose, there are studies it's just that you didn't came across them because it obviously takes a bit more than a few minutes. Secondly there is no funding from major countries on this, and thirdy, that consensus has shifted mostly about "unproven" not "it's safe" as the govts/officials are avoiding to say "it's safe" anymore and have and switched to "yet unproven, inconclusive, no studies", that's lawyers at work, so we know they're preparing in case the public figures it out they can always diminish/damage control. You are making a big mistake by equating "No studies" and "not proven" to "it's not true". Didn't I said the same thing? Well, I kept myself safer and didn't outright deny DC doesn't do any EMF as I wasn't sure tho and unless I can a whole lot more into this. But as per DC wiring goes it may be more healthy but gasoline engines's spark plugs and other electronic devices such as computers run on DC too but still produce various EMIs as they'll called in those fields, USB3 signaling has been known to mess with Wi-Fi at 2.4GHz, therefore USB3 produces EMI's that can affect WiFi and WiFi it self can be an interference (EMI) to the health of an USB3 signal, plugs generate EMFs and it's also all DC inside a car isn't it, that is per antenna dish operators from the US National Radio Quiet Zone saying that, but I found the video I watched way back, it's official policy on street poles actually, says diesel only. WHAT??? :doh: Where did I disregard that, didn't I talked specifically about how it's different depending on frequency? But all of them together make a soup which is what your body receives, so why it's wrong calling it electrosmog, it's gets to the point of the end result.