Troffmeister

i think you took the term " messing around with " too literally sorry i should have used better words ) i will clarify - certain models are Ed 's cherished babies shall we say - i think i am correct in saying i read on the forum somewhere that it was implied that ED will enhance the su27 themselves - so my point is / was - is it worth a community 3dmodder tackling this aircraft when its unlikely to be adopted officially by ED ?? - obviously we could have 100 community 3d loms of su27- but its not worth officially submitting the su27 to ED for adoption - thats the general impression i cleaned and have formulated in my head - right or wrong ? i personally would also stear well clear of the f15 / a10 as in my opinion the models are good - and they would need to be done really really well - as shall we say there is alot of focus / scrutiny and shall we say a level of politics sometimes on these models for a 3d modeller to tackle / rebuild and replace these models - i feel there would be alot of flak , and the need to do a really really good job on them - damage models / lods etc etc personally i would rather make some nice other objects , and also perhaps rebuild some of the not so smooth models - eg i have used the kc10 as an example in the past - no offence ed modellers , but it could do with a smoothness rebuild imo ) these other models and new objects don't carry the same level of potential " heat " associated with them shall we say ! i hope that explains - Strikemax's SU27 , is very lovely imho :-) Roger )

well my current pc has got no chance with these model specs and black shark etc - in fact my current pc is so poo , i have had to abandon trying to convert 5 hours of home video footage of my 2 yr old daughter .becoz i am getting lock ups , and having to reset the pc - it seems to be related to the pc being put under alot of strain - so maybe its the cpu and memory getting old etc - i have given this pc a good run for its money over quite alot of years - its gone into old age mode i feel on more demanding tasks - lol so i have abandoned the video conversion task and am keeping them stored on mini dv tape - until i get a new pc - me and the wife discussed a new pc last night , and she said October ))) i think certain models in Lo should be left alone for ED to make over / replace etc - the su27 is like messing with the holy grail ! there is plenty of other stuff to enhance / rebuild or add in - i have just started building a new ground object in 3dmax - there is scope for ships / planes / subs - whatever that would enhance the Lo virtual world , and add in new mission objects to destroy etc , counts as fun and valid items to build and hopefully add in, in my book ) i think all the talk of polygons etc is valid but equally confusing - i think trust your eyes - build a new 3d object so it looks round to your eyes - eg the current 12 sided su27 is obviously not round enough - becoz u can clearly see its how it was built those new tank pics etc - you can just see at the end of the tank barrel the shape used - to me this is good - less is sometimes more - you can build a very nice efficient clean mesh , that shape wise looks great to your eyes , without being insanely poly high - remember Lo is a game engine , cpu / 3d card - different peoples pc specs etc the apache helos look great , dunno how big they are poly wise but - i hope they are not too insane size wise tho ) Roger

stunning pic . moody , lovely sky , reflections etc )

thanks for the reply Ven re your pc ) looking to spend Ј1000 gbp on pc base - cpu / hard drives / ram / mboard / case / 3d card - nvidia 8800 gtx 768 probly - as u say in a few months who knows re price and spec - but intel 6600 cpu will be my min start point )

ok no problem take care ) good luck with you current projects hope to see them soon )

I really don't know whats your problem and why you are so rude - i gave you praise in your tornado thred , as well as asking you a question about the roundness of your tornado aircraft , out of interest / curiousity , so as far as i am concerned i don't have any issues with you , apart from trying to be friendly as above and engage you in constructive conversation , as per the forum rules and ethos etc as for giving away or showing models , i am not frightened to be honest about my skills or lack off , or show pictures of the models i make, or how they were made , and thankyou , yes i am quite happy and prepared to keep doing so ) you don't have to be so abrupt and unfriendly , even if perhaps english is not your 1st language , which i can appreciate . if you don't want to converse with people , or be questioned about your 3d projects and stuff in a friendly manner 1- don't do 3d modelling 2- don't post and publicise your projects 3- don't post on these forums Let me share with you a saying " If it smells like fish , it probably is ! If you make statements about errors and abandoning models you had previously publicised ,of couse you can expect people to question you about it !

yep i dunno why he has to be so cagey about models and doing 3d stuff , why not just be honest and upfront , and post some wire frame renders and stuff that you are working on , eg the tornado etc , and let people see what you are doing , how you are doing it , and share the experience with other members of the forum ! ;-) at worst you would get alot of praise and appreciation , and also you might inspire others to pick up the baton of doing 3d modelling , and perhaps others would jump into 3dmax and learn , animation / skinning whatever , and get involved in 3d modelling and help the overall community process . all this 3d modding is NOT top secret , just chill out abit and share some images of your hard work etc , it would be appreciated and i am sure we would all like to see more images of stuff from you so how about it ? p.s its not surprising that people jump on the bandwagon , when you state that something has an error etc , and has been abandoned , its called natural curiousity that people want to know , why , what happened , what the problem is , and obviously will offer to help out if they can ) Roger :-)

ok let me have a look at it please mail the file to troffmeister@hotmail.com thanks in advance :-) Roger

Ven , the spec of you computer now , is what i am currently saving up to buy , hopefully for xmas/ new year 08 , how does Lo run on you rig please ?

if it had errors , why not rip out, delete , and rebuild the whole section / sections if need be ?? hell i would rebuild the whole model if need be using the existing framework as a template your errors statement is confusing , can you clarify further please exactly what was wrong with the model / 3d mesh ? thankyou

hi Sponge and thankyou for the compliment ) - i did the p38 gmax online tutorial which you can find online , a link to it is in another thred - altho its for gmax - u can do it in 3dmax - gmax is the free version of 3dmax - that taught me alot many years ago . however i would strongly advise you download and view the videos on the previous page , as these are really good and invaluable and will teach you alot - i actually viewed one late last night , and learned a new skill - it would have enabled me to make mr blackjack , quicker in some areas , particularly cutting out the cockpit glass , but i know what to do next time on my next 3d model whatever that may be )

hi Superkungfu , models to ED need to have LODS - levels of details - u need 3 models at different levels of detail to make 1 object - i read that in their forum spec somewhere , some time ago Mr Blackjack is 1 model , as is shown , at max detail All janes usaf models , were also made with 3 lods - they have 3 p3d format models , low , medium and high - we found tho , that our vid cards and cpus could bypass this , so we just made 1 maximum model at circa 3000 ish polys , gave it to the game engine , as the low , medium and high p3d files - ie all p3ds were the same - and the game engine coped fine , without any probs Whatever does or does not happen , i will still make 3d models in the futue to the LO spec size , be that , aircraft ship or whatever , i may just make the unskinned models into a Lom , and just shove it into the Lo mission editor to purely have some personal fun with it- ie i get to at least see what it looks like in engine , even if not skinned animated - whatever - i appreciate , this is not ideal , and not what i really want to do - but as i said before , this is a kind of interesting test to see what the community can do to help its easy for us all to wish or want models in the game engine , or want existing models rebuilt to improve shape - but its easy to wish , alot harder to make them , and do all the processes needed to bring them up to the standard required by the game engine This is why we paid ED / Ubisoft for the game as is , they are the experts and the professionals , they get paid for 3d modelling and coding etc - we collectively are the 3d hobbyists and modders , with a mix of skills and talents , and my case a lack of the uvw / skinning / animation / game engine tweaking skills required to finalise Mr Blackjack into the Lo game engine 100% , and i make no secret of that . Hopefully the LO community can pull together and we can do some good things 3D modding wise ) Roger :-)

Mikoyan , you should be able to pick it up again quickly - it kind of comes back naturally ) if you know gmax - and now have full max7 - doing the basics should be a breeze ) funny thing is i actually made mr blackjack about 6 months ago - i started it , had it saved , lost interest , got peeved off with some real life stuff going on and mothballed it / the model ! i came back to it about 5 weeks ago and intensively re attacked it to get it finished on saturday , just gone , as per the renders at the top of the thred so i know exactly where you are coming from )

thankyou , your welcome , i 've stopped now , promise )

hi mikoyan , i use 3dmax7 too , Mr Blackjack was made in it ) thanks for the offer i found video tutorials which you can download , covering aspects of 3dmax model building - helpful to all , and worth a watch to those interested - these may help explain the principles of uvw / skinning and other stuff download them here http://www.gulfknight.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2198

apologises for spamming the thred somewhat lol this is my last picture post for a while following pics are models i made to a higher poly spec - note the landing gear on most is still low , i found it hard mentally for a while to break the 3000 low poly mentality of janes usaf 3d modelling some of these could be enhanced as possible LO objects , and if so landing gear and cockpit open / close would be addressed - i quite fancy the sr71 in the mission editor - mmm ) note Eurofighter pics are old , and none of these were built specifically for LO , or to LO polygon size target threshold Mr Blackjack i feel is my best , and highest poly model to date ) Roger http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/mirage2000s.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/mirage%202000%205%20%281%29.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/TU22%20BLINDER%204.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/Tornados3.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/tornado%20.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/xb70%203.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/Tornados2.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/eurofighter.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/mirage%2020005.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/b58hustler.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/Tu%2026%20Backfire.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/mirage%2020003.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/TU22%20BLINDER%202.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/TU22%20BLINDER.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/xb70%201.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/SR71%20BLACKBIRD3.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/SR71%20BLACKBIRD.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/TU%20128%20FIDDLER%203.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/TU%20128%20FIDDLER%202.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lomacposs/2%20x%20tornados.JPG

the following are models i made for janes usaf - which never saw the light of day - today is 1st time i have ever showed them in public - all around 3000 poly threshold each i left modding janes usaf many years ago ,becoz i got so fed up trying to make the models i wanted , to such a tiny poly count eg 3000 - it was frustrating , but it taught me to model clean meshes , no or little hidden faces , and i generally learnt alot from the experience tho frustrating at times . I have every single model i have ever made multiply backed up on dvd , i have never lost a model / 3dmax file and hopefuly never will ) Mr Blackjack has already been burned to CD ,so is nice and safely stored whatever happens ) anyway more old , low poly model pics - none of these are LO intended candidates ! http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/sample%20troff%20fleet.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/uk%20escort.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/v2.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/scene3.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/xb70%20valkyrie.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/russians.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/v.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/kcs.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/kcs2.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/f117.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/refuelling.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/4juris.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/models3.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/f117%205%20%281%29.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/scaled%20scene.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/oldmodels/subs.JPG

those guys were probably chosen becoz they have extendable necks - perhaps they are human alien hybrid clones ?

here are some hovercraft i would like to see in game Lock On , particularly to build some fun missions in the mission editor of a beach head invasion etc - and as some targets ) http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/ZUBR5.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/ZUBR4.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lcac%202%20%281%29.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/zubr.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/ZUBR2.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/lcac%201.JPG

Here are some pics of the Janes usaf b1b and b52 i made a number of years ago, both renders and ingame usaf screenshots - the poly count max for these models was just over 3000 , otherwise the janes usaf game engine would crash ! :-( i can dig out these files for download if anyone would like to test fly them in their old copy of janes usaf for fun - let me know pics below Roger :-) http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/TROFF0000259.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/usa%20air%20launched%20cruise%20missiles.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/b1bmax.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/b1b2.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/TROFF0000387.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/headon.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/b52.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/TROFF0000215.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/TROFF0000408.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/TROFF0000388.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/b1b%20lancer.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/b1_04.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/TROFF0000262.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/f117b1b.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/bgm%20109%20cruise%20missile.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/launch2.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/b1b%20lancer2.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/16/1182932/My%20Documents/b1blaunch.JPG

MMM thanks for stating the obvious , yes it would be great if i could model , uvw , skin animate etc , do everyrthing , then just give all my hard work to you all for free , but lets take a reality check for a moment - i have and am , and will continue to be totally upfront and honest with all you guys , with what i can do , and what the limit of my skill base is i started modelling as a hobby some 7 years ago i think -i started on a copy of rccad , then becoz i wanted to mod janes usaf , i got a copy of 3dmax r3 , did the online gmax p38 tutorial and went from there - i am totally self taught , i have never had any help or lessons , apart from some online reading , and all my stuff has been made thru trial and error - alot of trials , and alot of errors trust me ) i will post up later today some pics of previous stuff i have made , just for fun and to show you some low poly janes usaf stuff which never went public etc , and also some of my less than good models i made in the past :-0 i would love to do 3d modelling and get paid , i would love to be able to uvw . skin animate and do game engine stuff - but frankly dudes i don't have the time - i have a job , a home , a wife and a kid and chores and responsibilities , i do 3d stuff when i can as a hobby , when i want , or am allowed - my wife quite frankly is a little peeved over the last few months at my attitude , becoz i have head my head burrowed in my monitor in 3dmax most nights - thats the truth :-0 without wishing to sound or be big headed - to be honest you guys are lucky i have been able to do this , and come here , and i have said publically i will freely share my 3d models with you all, for 3d Lock On modding , if you would like them in game . Frankly this is now a test to see if there is truely a community out there with skills that want to help me get this 100% finished , so you all can have it free to fly , and also to hopefully build more stuff and release it in the future for you all to enjoy - be that aircraft , ships , submarines whatever ) In the past i have 3d modded with the help of a guy in the USA and a guy in KUWAIT , i liased with these guys on my janes usaf b1b and b52 models- i made the models , they skinned and animated - so 3 of us were involved around the world , we worked together , and it worked out , we released 2 fully skinned and animated new models for janes usaf - so a production line , or collaboration between people to get models 100% done , can be achieved despite different countries , time zones and skill bases :-) In conclusion , as i said before its now up to the community to help me , i can't say any more or be any honest than that Roger :-)

The good news is i will be making alot more models , time permitting over the coming months , i have some cracking ideas ) so we need a 3dmax skinner / animator / lock on engine expert dude ! Earth calling ! Come in your time us up ! :-)

Hi ALFA , and thanks everyone for the kind words , i am glad you all like it , i do alot , but then i am biased lol :-) i used to mod Janes USAF pc game , and i made and added to the game a B52H and a B1B bomber , which were skinned etc and animated and web released for free download , they are still out there on the web somewhere - the max poly count per 3d aircraft for that game - janes usaf was approx 3300 polys only - it was a challenge to make ok looking aircraft to such a low threshold ! Alfa re the poly count i follow what you are saying exactly to clarify the numbers - KH55 missile - 1 only flying 1744 polys / faces TU 160 - Wheels down , with the 2 rotaries in the bomb bays empty gives a max poly count for the aircraft naked , without any weapons at 44284 polys / faces Roger :-)

A bit of info about me , i am 38 , married with a 2 yr old daughter , my name is Roger , i live in the UK , i don't skin or animate 3d models , but i do make 3d models as my hobby when time allows ) The only condition i place on releasing my 3d max files of models are as follows 1- the person i work with must keep the model to yourself in 3dmax form - eg only you and i , will have the 3dmax file - public release of lom file for Lomac is fine and encouraged once converted ) 2- please do not sell , or publically release my 3dmax file model ,to friends or over the internet in any circumstances if you are happy and agree to these terms , then i am happy to give you access to the 3dmax file , for you to convert to Lomac , for all to fly and enjoy Models require uvw / skinning , animation , game engine tweaking and lom conversion to do - please only step forward if you have the skills to complete the process and can be trusted to abide by my terms and conditions thankyou Roger :-)

my terms on release and cooperation with someone to get the model uvw'd , skinned and animated , and lock on engine tweaked and file made , are the same as i stated in the eurofighter thred , basically its up to you guys now , i.e someone in the community to step forward and help me - if you want it finished properly and publically released as a lom file - all working super duper proper and skinned etc ) Roger