Kev2go

The primary reason most people are recommending the F/A18 over F16 purely because its in a more finished state. Right now the Viper is only viable for a2a. ITs ground attack is limited to unguided bombs, rockets . yes it has LGB' ans a TGP but as of now self to self designating for now in the F16 messes up your waypoints. when both are 100% complete out of EA, I would still say the Hornet will remain bit more versatile of the two due to anti shipping ( AGM84 harpoon) and long stand off attack capability with the AGM84 SLAM ER. the closest equivalent to the SLAM ER would be agm 158 JASSM which the DCS viper is not modern enough to get. ( post 2007 feature) Also to note the Hornet has a better navigation suite as it can overlay a moving map if need be on HSI and SA pages, and that the Hornets radar will have better A/G radar mapping. SAR quality imaging and EXP 3 magnification as opposed to being limited only Doppler beam sharpening method and EXP 2. The Hornet is also expect to get a second targeting pod the ATFLIR.

looks like ED is extending thier stay at home sale. for thier E shop ( only steam ended)

Sounds about right considering the Kiowa they are modelling is representative of a 2012 + version..... so its not out of the question for them to decide to to also include APKWS for Oh58D. Not anachronistic at all. AS the developers even stated, when other forum user asked about other systems ( specifically about AN/AAR47) not referenced in their copy of a manual the response was something along the lines of "you have very dated manual. The ones our team is using you won't find online."

Wrong. Anyone should be able to tell from cockpit screenshots alone that this OH58D is definitely not just " 1991 model with some 1997 updates". It has much more recent features. HInt Hint AN/AAR47 V2 MWS, and LCD based colour cockpit displays.

IM pretty sure if they wanted to they will model the av8b plus any time soon they would have already said so. Any plans for av8B plus were loosly mentioned as considerations long ago when av8B was not yet even in EA, and at a time when Razbam was't trying to be overly ambiguous in planning to model every aircraft in existence, that theyl never have the time to do. At this point however perhaps its not worth the time and $$ spent on developing it unless they make it a paid DLC. Even the ED simple NS430 GPS was not free but as a paid for DLC type modification. for mi8 and L39C just to have it directly integrated into the 3d cockpit . there far more effort than a single piece of avionic for the harrier plus. Integration of a multimode Radar, radar based delivery procedures and time spend adjusting the flight model. So given such a comparison So when you consider this, and also note that Razbam has thier plate full with a ton of other projects, i wouldn't be surprised if its either becomes paid upgrade, or they abandon their original plans for the plus because they are busy with so many other things. Alot has changed since initial av8B project was annouced. So learn to manage your expectations even if you think its "so easy"

ED has never said they would add it. And its unreasonable to expect it. we have a 2005 era hornet. It doesnt matter how simple it is. even if it requires no modifications. Plug and play typically referes to more modern aircraft. It can be a sometimes misleading statement You can't or e "plug and play" a Litening 2 or ATFLIR to an F14. Remember that old Lantirn integration was not and easy plug and play ordeal due to the analog nature of the A and B versions of the tomcat. They literally had to create a unique lantirn Control panel for the TGP specific for the cat, and install necessary wiring to a pylon that was going to have the LAntirn carried. There are plenty of other weapons that could be added that require no modifications yet we dont have them such as AIm9X block 2, or a newer iteration of the Litening 2 targeting pod with purely better image resolution ( IE litening 2 G4). BUt in 2018 when APKWS is cleared for USMC hornets i dont think any hornet is operating same avionics or software suite a 2005 era hornet is, purely because all are updated to newer standards.

Its not a simple as that. Nothing is slapped on without first being testing, and a official manual being revised to document new procedures for new integrated weapons so other pilots can be taught how to use it. Using such line of reasoning to justify any weapon is a quite a slippery slope to getting totally speculative fiction genre of loadouts.

Yor the one who doesn't get it. Believe what you want. Your can put a spin on things and rationalize your desires for such a weapon all you want. And yes whilst ED may not have performance diagrams for more modern A2A weapons like AIm9X or Aim120C5, they almost certainly would have at least have have tactical or weapons delivery ( USN and USAF respectfully) manuals for written and illustrated procedures of weapons operations for specific aircraft. You wouldn't have such an accurate simulation purely on seeing couple of few second cockpit go pro video stills. Just because you logically assume it works like any laser guided munition isn't a good enough reason to have it. Even for such a simple weapon you see how many years APKWS has been in development, and how many years it was being tested in controlled environments before it is actually adopted for use. 2012 is not the universal adoption date for all platforms with APKWS as you implied . Just like 2007 F16C viper has JHMCS, but not an F15E strike eagles until a few years later. https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/apkws-ii-hellfire-jr-hydra-rockets-enter-sdd-phase-02193/ IN 2012 it was only operationally used on AH1W super cobra and the UH1y Venom. 2016 for A10C integration and deployment. 2017 for av8b integration and 2018 before USMC legacy hornets are cleared to use. You know why ED is not gonna make APKWS even if it is easy to estimate its procedures? None of the current platforms use them at the timeframe they are being represented. DCS F16C is a 2007, and DCS F/A18C Lot 20 is circa 2005-07 aircraft. Even Razbams Av8b harrier is not a post 2010 aircraft. Like i Said, maybe A10C 2.0 might have it if its a recent enough software suite ( from maybe 2016-ish when APKWS comes around for it) we might see APKWS on that specific platform. This is the best hope. IF you want to be in denial go ahead., or you can choose to accept reality and stop promoting anachronistic weapons for simulation of a specific timeframe of aircraft. Otherwise keep calm, stop ranting, and learn to manage your expectations.

From what i noticed nations with demogrpahics with an larger elderly senior population are the ones who are suffering the most, wheras the youth - adult population will pull through such an illness if they get get sick. Anyone remember remember the Swine flu? this was far more dangerous pandemic to most demograhics as this strain of flu was potent enough that it was more people under the age of 65 were perishing from it relative to covid 19 is so far. With Covid 19 the death toll is much larger in the elderly category. Those at an age where they have weak enouh immunue systems, that even the "everyday flu" would be a threat to them. yet back in 2009- 2010 daily business operations were not stopped, people were not being ordered to confinement in their homes. I did not know anyone in family or freinds that had was affected by H1N1. Yet when the Swine flu pandemic was around it was not covered by media as much. Life carried on almost as normally as thing had. With this current pandemic mainstream media seems to be much more keen on causing a "panic". Adding fuel to the fire is not the answer, especially to a flu based pandemic that is not as bad as the last one. They have made it out to seem like a bigger crisis than it really is. if day to day activities don't resume ( considering statements made they won't) it will result in a global recession.

Probably not the anticipated project, but to remind everyone of ED to do list. They did mention DCS warthog 2.0 ( discounted upgrade to current A10C owners) wheras the A10C had a free facelift, this one would be also with a later Software suite. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4160206&postcount=232 to quote " What follows is a listing of aircraft projects that we and our valued partners will be working on in 2020. We do not expect all these projects to be released in 2020, but this is where our development focus will be in 2020. Following the free A-10C cockpit update, we will be releasing A-10C Warthog 2 in 2020. This will be a dramatic visual and systems upgrade to our A-10C. Once the new features have been finalized, we look forward to sharing them with you. In addition to DCS: A-10C Warthog 2 being available as a new module that will replace DCS: A-10C Warthog, it will also be available to existing A-10C Warthog owners at a significant discount."

yeah you missed out not being able to buy Hornet for 50% off, but that would be your best bet for the A/G options currently present on it. compare to the harrier waaaaay Long loiter time, greater weapons carry capacity, and better protective suite ( Automatic CM dispensing and IR Missile warning system) and it has a datalink system. The Hog will become even better when ED gets around to making Warthog 2.0, as they made mention a later software suite, but the disadvatage is the slow speed. The most well rounded option is just going for a multirole fighter like the F/A18 since it can do both A2A, A2G weaponry options are more versatile than either A10C or Harrier

It doesn't matter if it doesn't require software modifications IF you yourself are incapable of describing how exactly information and symoblogy is presented via MFD, HUD, etc and utilization of already existing targeting pod laser designation for guidance and the exact weapons procedures for the APKWS with the level detail you find in a manual, then you can't seriously expect it to be simulated. This is exactly why the devs have not done APKWS. IT's not pertains to the era of aircraft they are simulating ( irregardless if it doesn't need modifications) and because more importantly ain't happening unless theyve get a recent enough documentation on hows its used on specific platforms to simulate it. Its not hard to understand why devs have not done it any current modules. SO deal with IT!

^ This thank you.

It doesn't matter how simple APKWS integration is. To simulate weapons you need to know for example its symology for the MFD pages, and the various HUD indicators, and various weapons procedures specific not only for the weapon type but how its used on that specific platform. Just because we can understand based on general knowledge of how the weapon works and similarities to other laser guided munitions should not be reason to implement it on any aircraft. This is not World of Warplanes. IF this was the case we would have JASSM for the F16C because its "similar" enough in role and function to AGM84 SLAM ER on the Hornet but we don't. Hate to break it to you but unless the developers get a Tactical/ weapons manual for each specific aircraft with a recent enough publication(s) when APKWS was introduced that documents all the aforementioned bits from the prior paragraph your unlikely to ever see them on the aircraft you want.

apkws is too recent to expect for the timeframe respective harrier and F18 aircraft being simulated. APKWS didn't reach IOC until 2012 with the usmc ( and even then it was on helos initially) , it was only began trials in 2013 for fixed wing aircraft , but not received operationally until 2017 for the av8b harrier. In turn it wasn't integrated with USMC Hornets until about 2018. Maybe if ED A10C warthog 2.0 is going to be recent enough of a software suite in a 2013+ timeframe they might add it for that.

as someone who lives in a country where metric system is the one in use i can't complain. ;)

There is video of a Cf18 pilot describe functions of the aircraft and claimed that he liked to use FLIR on the MPCD. and ive seen some vidoes that show the MPCD pages don't have green text but white text kind of like the Super Hornets. But perhaps this varies on software suite.

Not that i doubt that fights arent often merged into BFM, but just where did you get the exact 10% statistic?

USN could afford to retire thier legacy Hornets becuase they didn't need them. They were already gradually phasing out legaacies for quite some time. The already had the super hornet for more than a decade by the time the last active duty legacy squadron was retired. Today they now have F35C's entering operational use. With Super Hornets, and now F35's there is no point for the navy to have kept legacy hornet in active duty service. They stopped upgrading after a certain point. An F/A18C from 2018 is no different in avionics from an F/A18C from 2005. ONly things that changed were software updates and some weapons stuff. AS the term "l;egacy" implies. An old platform that is no longer being updated. ANd the USMC has always had a budget problem, and in part this could have been avoided if they like the navy realized the F35 was still far away, and bought Super Hornet for an Interim solution like the Navy did. Alas though this ties in to USMC more limited budget.You also forget that Legacy hornet have been flying for 14 years longer than last tomcat ever did, and that they are expected to fly until at least 2030. Look at Iranian Tomcat in comparison. Ultimately areas of antiquated sustainment processes and procedures, inefficient supply chain management, poor cost data and incomplete cost analyses , limited long-term acquisition and funding strategies, have all been shortcomings of the military complex, since the USN also started having issues with supporting Super Hornets among others.

"sigh" yea pierre sprey is something special alright Sorry to say but you are very wrong in thinking the F35 is a crap plane. You have not taken the liberty of informing yourself adequately of the present day avionics technologies, applications of stealth, or how modern air combat actually works, and what advantages a platform means. Even a Russian defense analyst thought it was going to be good and the bad press was unwarranted, even before it entered operational service IF stealth wasn't an advantageous capability and just a waste of money then other nations outside of USA wouldn't want to be building thier own. Last time i checked no prior generation fighter that USA fields can match the F35 in: 1. Situational awareness 2. Computational power 3. Radar Absorbent Material 4. Lowest RCS Among Fighters (B-2 RCS is very classified, I'm not fit to make a judgement of whether the F-35 is the world's stealthiest, and X-band and Ku Band remain proliferated) 5. Networking capability ( more network centric than past fighters) 6. Cyber warfare capability (If I'm not wrong this is the 1st, at least serial production fighter jet w/ inbuilt cyber warfare abilities. This is crucial as it'll allow the F-35 to contest not only the conventional domain of the air, but the unconventional domain of cyberspace) This is how in reality Air combat actually works, and how it has changed over the years. https://csbaonline.org/uploads/documents/Air-to-Air-Report-.pdf Further expanding on the above Heres exactly why Stealth matters and why the F35 is the best overall fighter in its class. Maybe all this this will help you comprehend how much air warfare has changed, and that the days of dumb bombing and Top gun Esque Gunfights are a thing of hollywood ( and a thing of the past) On top of all that Red flag exercises prove just how F35 blows any other platform out of the water. https://www.f35.com/news/detail/f-35a-records-20-to-1-kill-ratio-at-red-flag-exercise https://www.businessinsider.com/the-f-35-tore-apart-fourth-gen-fighters-in-major-combat-exercise-usaf-2019-2 https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/02/20/air-force-chief-defends-f-35a-against-complaints-boasting-kills-at-red-flag/ https://theaviationist.com/2019/02/16/the-first-reports-of-how-the-f-35-strutted-its-stuff-in-dogfights-against-aggressors-at-red-flag-are-starting-to-emerge/ Iff you take off your rose tinted glasses perhaps you might just recall that the all teen fighters had their share of problems in development, They were not perfect in development or first years of operation either. F14 engine flameouts, F16's in testing killed some of their pilots. Logistical issues for the F15A;s, early APG63 had teething issue and was underdeveloped, F/A18 being overdue in IOC adoption, and going through countless trials and tribulations from its first flight to adoption, The realization that F/A18 Airframes would start cracking earlier than expected ( lex fences installation by the late 80s), or perhaps how the F/A18's flight control issues killing the pilots in certain instances ( unrecoverable falling leaf ) was not finally solved until the 2000's, the list goes on. AS much as the F35 was a failure in terms of Cost and time management during development, It is a success in terms of technology developed during the program, and certainly a overall export success given it not only adopted by the 3 branches of the US military but adopted by Nato and countless non partner states. Its current capabilities, and its future potential to further enhance them far outweighs any negatives pertaining to development, or any early life issues that will probably eventually be solved like any prior aircraft before it.

yes it would have been a benefit to any potential enemies knowing they wouldn't have to face anything like it in the skies or have to worry about these penetrating their air defense and destroying targets of high value. THe boondoggle days of development are over. Its now in mass production and operational service, and its capabilities literately are a quantum leap above any last gen aircraft. Its a shame that even after all these time the old meme of "F35 is lemon" still doesn't die. Then again should i be surprised? After all there still are handful of remaining old farts such as Pierre Sprey ranting to this day about how terrible the F15 is and how anything that isn't A10 cant do CAS.

Thank god he wasn't... Otherwise USA, NATO JSF partners, and countless export nations today would be without a very sophisticated lethal multi-mission stealth fighter that is on its way to becoming the mainstay of all these various air-forces. Considering the advancements of anti air systems, and the fact that potential adversaries are now building thier own stealth fighters all these nations would not have a decisive advantage that the F35 offers in event of a war. Could an air campaign still be carried with gen 4/ 4.5 within contested airspace ? Probably but almost certainly at much higher attrition rates. The idea in war is not to have an even playing field but advantage whenever possible over your adversary

Hence why the actually have something to work from....,. WIth spare parts the ones that arent grounded can fly, and they now have more spare parts. The USMC hornet A/C's are already flying longer than their intended air frame hours, since they skipped out on Super Hornet unlike the US navy, and don't have the luxury of retiring them entirely from active duty service like the US navy has. And this is largely a USMC issue. And most of it due to not having the necessary funding . This is not because Hornet is more maintenance intensive nor more costly per hour of flight than than the F14 , be it senior our youth years.

granted av8b /=/ F/A18, but looking looking at Av8B tactics manual from 2002( NWP 3-22.5-AV8B, Vol. I) there is a section on operation of lightening 2 pod. Page 1-399 to 1-400 specifcally include illustrations coupled with paragraphs without a shadow of a doubt presents that the L2 can do so. So yea coupled with all the other evidence the community found demonstrates to the contrary, that in fact these features already exited prior 2005 for the Litening 2 even with Hornet use.

Thanks for the update! Just to ask a quick question, can we expect to see included earlier generation missiles like the AIm9H and Aim7E4? Perhaps not necessarily for the F14B but for the F14A?