zerO_crash

You know, I haven't tried it yet, I kinda assumed that with FFB off, I will neither get G-effects in DCS (WWII, Hydraulic-controls, buffeting, G-forces, etc...) nor the Jetseat to work. From what you write heloguy, I assume it must work then. Damn, I'll try it out right away. I'll be in heaven if it works Not sure why, but I thought that if you turn off FFB in DCS, that it will not output the FFB-values in some kind of LUA-file. Gosh...

Oh really!? Now, that's weird. So before I change my current calibration. Just to make sure, when you start calibrating with Windows: 1. Windows asks to press button to set new center, you press any button on the stick. 2. Windows asks to calibrate the x-/y-axis, and you move the stick from corner to corner and press next. 3. Windows asks to press a button on the joystick to reaffirm the new center, AND here you press the lever in? 4. Windows asks to calibrate z-axis, and you again press the lever? 5. Skip all the other axis. Do I understand you correct? If so, I'm really surprised, but at the same time happy it could be the solution. Weird it's not written anywhere though. My windows is currently up to date, checked manually for updates too. Seems everything is tip top.

I hope it works brother. In case not, I'll try to compress it, or figure out something else. Cheers

@NineLine@BIGNEWY Here is the track file, it's a short combat mission with my friend, both of us could easily see during the mission temperatures of 1010*C + on both engines if we pulled enough collective. This must be a bug. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vu8Fw3CVTPvAiGsBpAMw54lw-LV5NWX7/view?usp=sharing

Well, true that, but they also have a DCS-plugin in beta-state right now, so it's definitely becoming more and more DCS oriented. Chuls, just curious, did you ever manage to get the brake lever to calibrate with the whole axis? Mine only registers 50%/75% of it. Windows calibration tool jumps to next axis/button as soon as I touch the brake lever.

Read my second reply. It has nothing to do with Brunner and it's software at this point. When it comes to all the effects not being modelled, that's one thing, but not this. This is really not a big issue at all. It's a matter of adding a new trimmer option to DCS that allows, very much like "Stick with no spring and FFB", to only give the AP updates, without the actual software trim function (Brunner will handle that, but still with FFB in comparison to "Stick without springs and FFB"). Therefore, it's really not a problem. And this is done to compensate for CLS2Sim's inability to trim the stick out of center with software trim. As to overcorrection, I'm not sure why this issue even occurs at all TBH, as long as FFB is on. I have never used curves in DCS in my life. Real aircraft use linear controls, and thus I do too. I checked my controls time and again, and it's not a setting issue on my part. That unless I am missing something.

Yeah, thought that it's a gimmick, was just curious if that effect was in. As to feeling the gun, well, with the Jetseat, I feel it. Truly amazing piece of hardware. Can only recommend it. I only fly DCS, so cannot test it elsewhere, but no problem, I love it as is. The reason I prefer the vanilla implementation, as opposed to your Arduino fix Chuls, is for sheer simplicity in maintaining it all working. I prefer to keep it clean, not a fan of modding in general. Still, it is an awesome piece of software you did there, so good job my man There is really only one thing that remains to be fixed, before it's perfect: True indeed, and I love that it works with Brunner's software out of the box. Effects are actually affecting the stick and it's forces, a truly splendid feature. It's good to be back with some quality FFB. It's a game changer.

Here are the limits for Mi-8/Mi-24/Ka-50 (TV3-117VM/A): Engine EGT: 990*C - 6 min max. continuous take-off power (limited by EEG under normal operation) 955*C - 60 min continuous nominal power 910*C - Unlimited cruise power Engine RPM: 101.15% - 6 min max. continuous take-off power (limited by EEG under normal operation) 99% - 60 min continuous nominal power 97.5% - Unlimited cruise power Engine EPR: "T" - 6 min max. continuous take-off power "M" - 60 min continuous nominal power "C" - Unlimited cruise power 870*C/95% engine RPM - Is for economic cruise flight Also, for the two upper which have a limited (not infinite operation), a 5-minute cooldown after 6min/60mim will permit you new 6min/60min. It's in order not to overheat components inside the engines, and specifically the turbine blades, which under high temperature, for prolonged time, can deform and lose their properties resulting in reduced power (and higher EGT for the same power settings) or malfunction.

Wrote my impressions here at the end:

So I got my Brunner, and I absolutely love this thing. It's superb in every aspect! Simply outstanding. Flying with proper trim and effects makes this a game changer on par with VR and Jetseat. To anyone wondering, the joystick has plenty of power (I have Virpil T50 Mongoose CM2 and a 10cm extension, and I never use max power, not even close), doesn't overheat, has the best gimbal that I've ever used, is super-smooth and is an absolute joy to use. Just splendid piece of hardware. You really get what you pay for, and more. What got me wondering though, is that in DCS under bindings, both "Stick" and "Vjoy" pop up as bindable options for the same device. Now, I don't use the Arduino solution, prefer everything vanilla. Does anyone know the difference between the two? I would suspect that Vjoy-column might give you Vjoy-FFB while the "Stick"-one might lack it? Any idea? Also, does anyone have the advertised gun-recoil in the stick in DCS, again without the Arduino-option? I get G-effects, buffeting and stall shaking, also stick stiffness based on speed (WWII-aircraft, non-hydraulic system), however not the gun-shake. zerO

Ok, I've done more testing, and finally figured it out. I can say that there is nothing wrong in general with the trim in DCS and FFB joysticks. After having a accidental keybinding reset (installed new simshaker version), the issue seemed to go away. It made me think that it must have someting to do with Brunner, and apparently it is the case. So, since Brunner doesn't support DirectX FFB natively, it uses its own application, CLS2Sim, to generate FFB-effects based on the relevant DCS .lua. In other words, to get FFB effects, one has to use CLS2Sim. Since Brunner is fed data from CLS2Sim, it also means that it won't trim out of centre when using DCS-trim. That's why we have to use "hardware trim" from CLS2Sim in order to have the stick remain at the new trimmed position out of centre. So far so good, everything works. Now, knowing that the AP is tied to the trimmer-button, and references to it, I thought that I'll just double-bind the the trimmer in DCS to the same button that I have set as the "Hardware trimmer" in CLS2Sim. Sadly, this is what causes the overcorrection when trimming. I thought that the overraction would be gone when enabling "FFB" in DCS settings. Sadly it does not in this case. The problem then is that: a) Either I use FFB in DCS and thus have to enable Hardware trim in CLS2Sim in order to get FFB-effects and out of centre trim. However then I cannot provide updated AP-info when using the trimmer (otherwise if I double bind the trimmer in DCS, it gives me overcorrection). (Module trimmer option - Default) or b) I turn off FFB in DCS, enable Hardware trim in CLS2Sim, double bind the trimmer in DCS, but now use the trimmer-option "Stick with no spring and FFB". That way, my Brunner trims out of centre, the AP get's its updates and the helicopter isn't overcorrecting on trimming. Sadly though, I get no FFB in my Brunner, nor my Jetseat. This is really a crazy issue. What we, with a Brunner-stick, need, is a trimmer-option that works precisely like "Stick with no springs or FFB", however with working with FFB. It's really crucial. I was just testing it today, and the trimming is natural and just superb with option b), sadly no FFB though... Another part of the problem is that turning on FFB in DCS invalidates trim-option. Can anyone from ED chime in on this? Thanks in advance! zerO

Tested it again in Syria at 30*C ambient tenperature. Fully loaded helicopter. During maneuvering, when pulling maximum collective sometimes, or close to maxiumum, I get 1000-1010*C. Same goes for taking off with a heavily loaded helicopter. There’s definately an issue with the RGT limiting. What I also notice is that the “LH/RH eng. limit” lights (bottom right panel) don’t light up when you pull higher, or maximum collective. I’ll try to get a track file.

@BIGNEWY @EvilBivol-1 @Wags @NineLine I recently got myself the Brunner CLS-E joystick (FFB), been many years on spring joysticks, and before that on MSFFB2. Something that bothered me back with MSFFB2 as well as now with Brunner, is that while the stick is set up correct (FFB enabled, Default trim mode), there is a major issue with them that doesn't make sense IRL. What I'm talking about is the overcorrecting trim. This issue has been raised now with Mi-24P, however it has always been there with Ka50 for FFB-sticks. Basically, when you trim, often banking right or left, or pitching up or down, upon releasing the trim (click-method), there is an overcorrection added. This both seems wrong, and counterintuitive. I know the AP very well in the Russian helicopters, and I do know how their trims work. The problem is that this just doesn't make sense. Now having a FFB-stick like Brunner, I have the exact same cyclic as a helicopter pilot has IRL, they way it works and the way it "should" behave. I would expect to not have any jinxing around when re-trimming with big changes in speed, attitude, altitude, etc... between. Rather, that I would have to trim multiple times in the new position, in order to remove errors and imprecision generated over time from before, and settle a stable trim. Take a look at the video below and turn up the volume so you can hear the pilot using the trimmer. This stable behavior with such seldom click-trimming cannot be reproduced in DCS with a pro-grade FFB-stick. If you try that, you will not get as smooth transitions, and worse yet, you will have to trim minimum 2x as much just to correct the over-correction: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eq1kkvxAsd0 For a visual representation of the problem, please look at this post: https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/274554-trimap-operation/ I post this issue in DCS world because it's a Ka50/Mi24/Mi8 issue. At least from checking videos, and using my knowledge of the systems (trim and AP), I cannot see such behavior being correct for a stick that can trim out of center. It just doesn't make sense. Back in MSFFB2 times, I thought it was imprecision of trim, and otherwise errors and inaccuracies, like they naturally exist. However looking at it now, the oversteering is just too pronounced for that. It would be really nice if someone from ED could tell me whether this is IRL correct behavior, or not. Primarily for the Ka50, but the others as well. Am I in the wrong, and this is actually correct behavior for a FFB stick? It feels like "Joysticks without spring and FFB" trim mode is more accurate, without the jinxing and overcorrecting (I have a steady hand, and know what delicate control is) that FFB-sticks experience. Thank you in advance! zerO

It could have something with me running a mission in Syria at 30*C+. I’ll check it again, but pretty sure that I went on a couple of occasions above (when maneuvering hard).

I notice that the engines are running really high, much higher than Mi-8 or Ka50. It would be nice if someone internally could check that they are correct, but for some reason they simply run too hot. Also, I notice that one can exceed the 990*C limit on the engines in normal conditions. With a proper startup-procedure, everything engaged according to the manual, it seems like there is no governor that will throttle the engine down when one reaches the maximum 990*C. There is a an issue here. I´ve tested it, and been over 1000*C in normal operation. This seems wrong to me.

Works for me. Try to re-bind it or bind it to a different button.

I always fly helicopters while keeping an eye on the temperature, engine RPM and EPR-gauge. What is noticed is that the engine temperature gauge in the front of the pilot-cockpit has a major mistake in it. The smaller gauges showing engine temperature in x10 *C have wrong numbering in them. Instead of showing 20/40/60/80, they show 20/40/60/30. That seems to be a graphical bug. Pretty major though.

Confirmed, decrease doesn´t work.

I just received my stick today, I´m currently working on setting it up. So far, 11/10. The build quality, motors, feel, etc... is simply out of this world. Absolutely worth it. With that said, I need to get the FFB-effects to work. The software isn´t too explaining, and info is scattered around on Brunner´s forums and so on. I´ll give you feedback once all of the software is running as it should, and all the effects are running the way I want them. In the meantime, have a look here, there is a specific thread on it, much good info:

@BIGNEWY any plans about this?

It´s only a couple of days left til 16th. This cannot come quick enough, as well as my Brunner CLS-E. After 15 years of wait in DCS, finally a proper modern simulation of Mi24. Stay put everyone!

Any news about this? @BIGNEWY One cannot do triangulation, point marking (more advanced than markers that we got) and info exchange in a shared battle space currently at all.

Will there be any more focus on the pilot-body inside cockpit onwards? As more and more users get VR, it seems like an immersion killer to simply have an empty pit. Are there any plans for making those more or less standard from now on? Even the old model from BS2 is better than nothing. This goes for both ED-modules and 3rd party ones. Would be nice to hear from you (ED) on that. Thanks!

There isn't really any problem with running high loadings on this joystick. Those who manage to overheat the base, seem to be running rather long extensions (above 20cm), or simply heavy sticks. If you don't use any extension, then its not a problem, simply because the stick becomes heavy to fly with and you won't force it the same way as you do with an extension. This is really a non-issue.

I´ve been looking for where I read it, but cannot find it. I´m pretty sure that I read about it on http://vimpel-v.com, but not 100% sure. While looking through my other sources, some of the websites have either been taken down or have had their content deleted due to the new Russian law regarding military information sharing. In any case, I know it was written on a reliable website, and I know that it was before the Yom Kippur war, that it had been tried. The mi8´s that received those didn´t have any mentioned modifications, other than the pilot outfitted with NVGs. That was the essence of the article. (It was in relation to Soviet Union providing Egypt with NVGs during Yom Kippur War itself, their ground troops.) Very good picture of the gunner´s panel. Indeed it uses green backlight as opposed to e.g. Ka 50 with it´s blue. Ka 52 also uses green.