RogueSpecterGaming

You can only use barrage in MAN mode. You can't use semi.

Ok, I've finally had time to look at this stuff. Let me breakdown everything I found and observed. This is going to be a bit long so bear with me. Let's start with the loadouts. The pilot taking off in the real-world video had: 2x AIM-120B, 1x GBU-12, 1x GBU-38 (on BRU-57), 1x Litening TGP, 2x Wing tanks. With max fuel his weight before startup would've been 36,718lbs --NOTE-- In the real-world video you posted the first F16 seen has one GBU-12, one GBU-38, one Litening TGP, two AIM-120Bs, and two tanks, while the jet taking off has the same loadout but has the GBU-38 as a single-by on the BRU57 Smart bomb rack, a pretty common occurrence. In DCS we can't do that so we will stick with the one-by GBU-38 on the WWP, not too big of a change. Also, the weights are relatively close to the same. Your loadout was: 2x AIM-120C, 2x GBU-12, 1x Litening TGP, 2x Wing Tanks. Weight before startup 36,815lbs. Charlies are heavier than bravos. That gives us a weight difference of 97lbs. (48.5lbs per wing) Another factor for weight though, is the real-world pilot didn't start off on the runway with full fuel like you are doing. He burned some sitting there starting the jet, getting the systems ready, and taxi meaning he probably took off with a fuel weight of about 11,019lbs vs your fuel weight of 12,113lbs. Depending on certain factors he could've burned anywhere between 1,100lbs to 1,500lbs of fuel. So, accounting for that we will go with the middle and say he burned 1,300lbs bringing his new weight to around 35,418lbs. So now we have both weights factored. Yours: 36,815lbs IRL Video: 35,418lbs --Difference in weight = 1,397lbs Let's get our numbers now (All numbers are rounded to the nearest ones). For a 10 Degree pitch Yours: Rotation Speed = w/AB 164 w/o AB 169 | T/O Speed = 179 IRL Video: Rotation Speed = w/AB 160 w/o AB 165 | T/O Speed = 175 For an 8 Degree pitch (increase takeoff speed by 8 percent) Yours: Rotation Speed = w/AB 178 w/o AB 183 | T/O Speed = 193 IRL Video: Rotation Speed = w/AB 174 w/o AB 179 | T/O Speed = 189 Only going to do AB takeoffs You can see for the 10 degrees pitch your numbers were just a bit off. Now, let me talk about what I noticed in the video, because this will be important later. The real-world pilot is at Balad AB which has an elevation of 144ft above MSL (judging by the background he is taking off from runway 30) vs you, taking off from Batumi which is only 33ft above MSL, but that isn't too much of a factor here. Now, if we take into account that in early October, which is when this video is uploaded the temperature would've been around 98 to high 80s. But giving the chances the video was upload immediately is very slim meaning this was most likely shot in June to August time frame meaning the temps would've been around 100 to 115 degrees. The runway temp would've been around 160-180 degrees (based on real world flight line experience as a maintainer at Nellis AFB, the ground gets super-hot on the flight line). So, you got to take that into account for engine performance. Can't really tell what the winds were but I will just put a 2-knot wind in since judging by the trees I couldn't really see any movement but I'm sure there was some type of wind that day across the runway. I made a mission with these parameters: Iraq Takeoff Example.miz And last but not least, probably the biggest factor in all of this, is what he does at the end. The 45 degrees vertical climb. Because he did that and judging by how he took off, I can tell he did an 8-degree pitch instead of a 10-degree pitch. You can tell because he stays pretty low before starting the climb. With that he had a whole (if I'm right about his weight) 13 knots on you when he started his rotation. This is where it gets interesting. I watched your track in slow motion countless times and here is what I noticed. You started to rotate at 164. This is the speed you initially started pulling the stick back. So, your horizontal stabs were not fully deflected yet. At 169 your horizontal stabs were fully deflected which started your rotation. Takeoff was at 197 for both wheels. At 194 you were kind of taking off with a roll, so you didn't have both wheels off the ground yet. The controls indicator showed you applied a slight roll to the right when pitching. Obviously, those numbers aren't what you were looking for. Now let's get to my tracks because this is where it gets good. I also did this on the Caucasus map for those who don't have the Iraq map. Replicating the real-world video as close as possible. In my first track Iraq 10 degrees 156.trk I started pull the stick for rotation at 156 and had full horizontal stab deflection at 161 which started my rotation. I achieved takeoff at 185. In the 2nd track Iraq 10 degrees 160.trk I started to pull the stick for rotation at 160 and had full horizontal stab deflection at 162 which started my rotation. I achieved takeoff at 186. In the 3rd track Iraq 10 degrees 161.trk I started to pull the stick for rotation at 161 and had full horizontal stab deflection at 165 which started my rotation. I achieved takeoff at 187. That was all with using the speed on the HUD. I then decided to test the speed using the external view. I did one take. My rotation needed to start at 154 in the HUD which would be 161 on the external cam. So, I pulled at 154 and had full horizontal stab at 160 in the HUD, which started my rotation. I achieved takeoff again at 186Iraq 10 degrees 154 in HUD.trk Having tested the 10-degree pitch numerous times, I then moved onto the 8-degree pitch. Remember 8 degrees = Rotation Speed = w/AB 174 | T/O Speed = 189 1st track I started pulling the stick at 170 and had full stab deflection at 174 which started my rotation. I achieved takeoff at 189. Iraq 8 degrees 170.trk 2nd track I started pulling at 171 and had full stab deflection at 177. I achieved takeoff at 190. Iraq 8 degrees 171.trk 3rd track I started pulling at 171 and had full stab deflection at 176. I achieved takeoff at 191. Iraq 8 degrees 171 2.trk These three tracks show the problem. The F16 in DCS cannot do a 10-degree pitch and achieve calculated numbers. It can however hit or come close to hitting the numbers for the 8-degree pitch. It should be able to do both. I provided a track from an external view as well to compare with the real-world video doing an 8-degree pitch, and I roughly found the location of where the person was standing when recording. You will see it closely replicates the real-world video. Don't take control, I move the camera into position. Iraq 8 degrees external view.trk Done on Caucasus: 8 degrees - takeoff was 189 Caucasus 8 degrees 189.trk 10 degrees - takeoff was 185 Caucasus 10 degrees 185.trk I even went a step further and tested out Mover's loadout, which was a pretty similar loadout to what I had during my incentive ride. And I can confirm that it still needs a bit of tuning in this area for the Viper. It is so close to being on point. Same results: 10 degrees Caucasus 10 degrees dif lo.trk Takeoff speed = 159 | rotate w/AB at 144 Pulled back at 141, full deflect at 147 w/ t/o at 166 8 degrees Caucasus 8 degrees dif lo.trk Takeoff speed = 172 | rotate w/AB at 157 Pulled back at 153, full deflect at 159 / t/o at 172 I concluded that no matter the speed, with this loadout or a lighter loadout, and going for 10 degrees, that I would takeoff ~10 knots faster than what the calculated takeoff speed is. An 8-degree pitch and flying for those speeds was way more consistent. After watching real world videos in slow motion and watching my tracks in slow motion and analyzing every little detail I almost thought it was the scheduling of the LEFs but came to the conclusion that those are operating correctly every single time. WOW comes off and the LEFs actuate accordingly. So it isn't that. I now suspect two things could be the problem: low engine thrust, or too much drag against the aircraft when the nose comes up. The drag seems like the more probable cause as there is no issue when going for 8 degrees. You are going faster essentially pushing past that drag because you have the speed to do so. Whereas, going slow and aiming for 10 degrees the jet just doesn't want to get up until it is faster. Almost as if the 8 degrees speed is the only speed the jet can get off the ground with. The reason I suspect the engine is because when holding the brakes and running the engine to 90rpm there should be a brief moment where the brakes hold but quickly slip due to the amount of thrust. This is something that is noted in the -1 as well and is noted to not push past 90rpm when holding brakes, and to come off the brakes as soon as the jet moves on its own. It can be one of them or both. I hope this helps with the investigating from team @NineLine @BIGNEWY

I found the problem and will post everything tomorrow. Everyone, please sit tight.

ACM Bore was changed last year.

In game empty weight is 19899 In game the Litening+empty weight = 20357 (difference of 458lbs) litening should weigh closer to 467lbs In game Sniper+empty weight = 20538 (difference of 639lbs) Sniper+pylon should weigh 446lbs One of the biggest selling points for the Sniper was the reduced weight and aerodynamic design. Extra information sent to NineLine.

Alright so a quick breakdown of fuzes and what to select and the bomb will still work: MK82/84 GP on a MAU-12/TER with M904/905: NOSE, TAIL, or NSTL selected = bomb explodes MK82/84 GP on a MAU-12/TER(82 only) with FMU-139/152/DSU33: NOSE or NSTL selected = bomb explodes TAIL selected = DUD MK82/84 GP on a MAU-12 with FMU-139/152/M904 NOSE or NSTL selected = bomb explodes TAIL selected = DUD MK82 GP on a TER with FMU-139/152/M904 NOSE, TAIL, or NSTL selected = bomb explodes GBU-10E/B and GBU-12B/B on MAU-12 with FMU-139, FMU-152 tail fuze only NOSE or NSTL selected = bomb guides and explodes TAIL selected = DUD: Bomb is unguided and fails to explode GBU-10E/B and GBU-12B/B on MAU-12 with M905 tail fuze only NOSE selected = DUD Bomb guides but fails to explode TAIL selected = DUD: Bomb is unguided but explodes NSTL selected = bomb guides and explodes GBU-12B/B on TER with M905 tail fuze only NOSE selected = DUD bomb is guided but fails to explode TAIL selected = bomb guides and explodes NSTL selected = bomb guides and explodes GBU-12B/B on TER with FMU-139, FMU-152 tail fuze only NOSE or NSTL selected = bomb guides and explodes TAIL selected = DUD bomb is guided but fails to explode Who knows maybe the hotfix fixed the problem with bombs going DUD. I havent tried yet but I will soon. I did not have a tracking problem. The bomb guided down to where I was pointing (stationary target), but it didn't explode despite having NSTL selected. Will do some testing this weekend and see if they magically tossed a fix in.

He said route tool though. And ngl I've never used the route tool, so does it function the same way as the ME? Where if you put 0 it will auto adjust to MSL?? And correct. The JDAMs on the F-16 only uses Relative Mode (which the HUD should indicate but there is no indication currently). It also only uses the INS portion and not GPS. Hopefully sometime this year or next year we will see it get that. When we do get that we should get absolute mode at the same time. But this is also why we should not bring other aircraft into this discussion as the JDAMs on the other jets do not suffer from the same thing as the F-16 does. This is also a topic that has been brought up and talked about countless times. A quick search would get OP all his answers about this.

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104527/sniper-pod/#:~:text=General characteristics,Point of Contact The 446lbs is the pod weight itself. The pylon it attaches to is only around 50lbs. Total weight should be about 496lbs. I will send BN/NL evidence later. Upon looking at my official sources with more info. That 446lbs includes the pylon weight. So the Sniper ATP is 425lbs, and the pylon is only 21lbs for a total weight of 446lbs.

If you are putting 0 for the elevation then that is your problem. I also think you are misunderstanding what AGL means and how to use it. If you set the altitude for a Stpt in the F16 to 0 that is completely wrong. Say you have a tgt and coords X, Y, and the ground is 1850 MSL. You wouldn't put 0 into the DED, because if you did then you are telling the system that at X,Y the elevation of the ground is at sea level. Doing this will move your stpt "under" the ground which would translate to your bombs hitting far away. The number you should put into your DED is the MSL of the ground, so in this case 1850. Now you are telling the system that at X,Y the ground is 1850 above MSL. I've never had a problem with GBU falling that far from a target. 50-100 meters pretty far outside the CEP. Go ahead and place a stpt and put the number you see for Altitude on the F10 map into the DED and try again. And don't compare the Hornet's system with the Viper's. You will just further confuse yourself and others.

Thats just you not holding the nose at 13 degrees AoA. I've consistently gotten to 95-100 kts with 2xtanks, 2x 120s, 2x9, 2x WWPs. With a slick jet I can get all the way to 70-75 knots.

Yes this is correct behavior. Been like this for a while now.

Are you sure you are calculating the speeds correctly, i.e. accounting for winds (headwind/crosswinds), AB vs non-AB speeds, if you have any roll trim? And do you know what speed the Viper was going and what the winds were across the runway in the real-world video you posted? Side note - Real world maximum allowable takeoff GW (48000lbs) based on MLG tire limit speed is 225kts with no winds. But this number changes based on a few things like runway temp and altitude. Could go more into it but not the topic of course, just extra info. If you are still wheels on the ground at 200kts then that could mean you either pulling too early or pulling too late. Pulling too late means you need to use more runway in order to be at a speed to gain lift backb because of ground effect essentially sucking you towards the ground. Pulling too early and the horizontal stabs create drag that will again require you to be at a higher speed to compensate for the increase drag. I typically takeoff with a standard AG loadout (2x 120s, 2x 9s, 2x tanks, 4x 12s, TGP, HTS, ECM long) and depending on the winds on the server my rotate speed with AB ranges from 167-176, meaning my speed at which the main landing gear is off the ground is around 180ish close to 190ish. And thats with aiming for a 10 degree pitch. You would increase takeoff speed 8 percent for an 8 degree pitch. Im not at my computer right now cuz Im mid shift so Im at work and cant watch your track right now. If you can post your weight, winds, and if you used roll trim what your DOT of trim was, that would be helpful as I can do some math while Im waiting and when I get home I will look at your track. I haven't really noticed anything wrong but Ive been busy focusing on the Sniper so maybe I just havent noticed it lol.

If using a FMU-139, 143, or 152 and no fuze in the nose (plugged), keeping it on NSTL is fine as you need the NOSE option in order to have the center solenoid hold the arming loop on the initiator which activates those fuzes. You could select the NOSE only, as the initiator is the only loop since those are electrical fuzes (will double check my work notes but 99% sure you can do that). Mechanical fuzes like the M905 requires the TAIL option as the loop for that goes into the tail solenoid on the MAU-12. Default MK82s in DCS usually always come with both nose and tail fuzes (M904 and M905) so NSTL should've activated the fuses. If you can, can you please post a track. I did have a GBU-10 appear to DUD on me as well the other day, but didn't think too much of it as I was focused on something else.

Mmmm that's weird ain't it. You can find that little note on page 414 of the manual by the way. Oh and again on page 403. And some people are new to DCS and he didn't give too much info either. It could've really well have been that he was too far don't you think? Or are you just high and mighty and feel need to make a comment on everything and think you are right? And I've definitely fired the Litening pod laser well out of 8nm and gotten the L for range. I think the farthest I got was like 20nm or so cuz I would always lase the target before dropping GBU-38s. So no, in DCS they do not have the same range. And where did I say he was flying at an altitude of 50K? 8nm Slant range not freaking altitude dude dang. Like who refers to altitude in NM??? lmao Cool I must've missed it in all the nonsense ya'll are talking about. But he never specified which T soooooooo there is that. How am I confusing two things? We have a Sniper pod that is actually a sniper pod and not two pods mixed into one. So really the Sniper is the benchmark now, and there is no vice versa about it. Lantirn and Litening into one pod isn't a good comparison to make against a pod that is actually being simulated now. You literally can't compare the "Litening" on the F16 to the sniper because it isn't actually a litening. If it was it would be a Gen I or at best Gen II. But both Litening and Lantirn would have much worse clarity due to the constant need for contrast/brightness adjustments and the fact that the old Litening and especially the Lantirn are horrible at image recovery after a bright flash like that from an explosion, if you consider the year ED would be modelling. The current Litening on the F16 needs to be removed completely and never seen again. And I'm not talking other aircraft, just the F16. Do other aircraft sensors need to meet the standard as well, of course they do. But this thread is not about other aircraft at all. And the whole "We either choose one path – game mode, or realistic. not both in the same title." comment is literally what I am talking about. But you, for some reason, are trying to go another direction. You cannot deny the fact that there are people currently complaining about the two pods and wanting something done to the sniper to make it clearer like the litening. Which again in DCS are completely different altogether. The real-world litening Gen IV and the sniper are more comparable than the sniper and the lantirn are if they were compared together. The "problem" isn't really hard to fix. Just remove the current Litening on the F16 and problem solved.

Did you happen to hit ICP 7 for markpoints? If so, you cannot be on the markpoint page of the DED as the Markpoint page takes priority of the sensors and you cannot use the HAD to create markpoints.

Ive been following it and ya'll still comparing a pod that isn't really Litening pod but a mix of two pods. You either get realism or you dont. You cant really have it both ways unless you ask for a setting where it makes your pod look better than others. That is something I dont think will happen. The Sniper works, looks fantastic, and this is coming from real world experience seeing it in the jet. How you gonna reference old material? You do realize the manual was updated with the Sniper pod info right? It is literally noted multiple times that the laser will not work outside of 8nm. The only other things that can effect that range is clouds and dust/fog. And in my tested in the sim the T will not change to L until you are within 8nm of the target. Again, it will change from T to L. And the person asking never got an answer. That is why I answered him. Dont refer to forum posts from literal years ago and not even about the same dang pod. That doesnt make sense to do my guy. This.

You do realize a vast majority of that footage the pod is under 10nm when looking at stuff, right? Here is a better video for you skip the intro go to 0:10. They even talk about how they are only 13n aways. And when they are tracking the F16 they are about 14nm. Im getting pretty good image quality in DCS when using the Sniper and Im using MSAA 2x. Im sure msaa 4x would be even more clear. But I bet a lot of the people in here are using DLSS or FSR or something which just isnt that good and blurs the image a lot. I would stay away from DLSS/FSR usage imo but i know that isnt much of an option for most. Later I will post images of what I am seeing. All the way out to 40nm.

The laser only works under 8nm. If you fire it outside of that the range will not display the L. Read the manual.

If it fails on the first alignment process just realign the cross and press the ENABLE switch again. No need to do anything fancy.

If you are using a HOTAS make sure your throttle is out of the OFF position and in an IDLE or somewhere between IDLE and MIL.

This was pointed out by Cowboy 307 on Discord. Not sure if aircraft specific, but when doing the F16 Air Refueling Instant Actions on Caucasus and PG the AI F16s continue to get in line for refueling even if you call Intent to Refuel far out like in the PG instant action. Weird part continues when you abort refueling, the AI F16s will also abort but stay with the tanker. When calling for Intent to refuel again the AI F16s will go right back to refueling. The only way to stop this loop so you can refuel is to get in line right behind the AI and as soon as they get done call for Ready Precontact. Attached are the two tracks and should be around 5 minutes each give or take. Caucasus AAR F16.trk PG AAR F16.trk

This is what I am seeing, when not zoomed in I get this weird graphic thing going on with the HUD. When I zoom in it goes away, when I turn MSAA OFF it goes away, and when using anything other than MSAA 2x/4x it goes away and doesn't appear. I've checked drivers, redownloaded drivers, repaired DCS, reinstalled DCS, clean install of Windows, and just about everything else you can imagine including going through each graphics settings and turning them off/on both in game and in the AMD software side. This is happening with the F-16, F15E, F18, and AH-64. It does not happen with the A-10CII however. I am running a new PC build with a 9070XT, 9800X3D, MOBO: AsRock Phantom Gaming X870E NOVA WIFI, 32GB DDR5 TEAMGROUP T-FORCE @6400 (I have tried various speeds as well from 5200-6400). Yes, DCS is installed on a M.2 NVME. dcs.log DxDiag.txt NOT ZOOMED JUST CROPPED ZOOMED null

Havent watched the track yet but make sure you dont have the Markpoint page up on the DED. I will watch the track when I get home from work.

Because I worked on the F16 and use to mess around with the TGP. And that is how it works. I can promise you it works as advertised. Because the TGP needs an image to go into regular INR in order to stabilize on. Inertial rate requires an image or it doesnt know what it needs to stabilize on. When you switch STPTs it will stabilize on a set of coords and doesnt need an image on that case. But once you have slewed the TGP you created slew errors and therefore it needs something to stabilize on. This is why it briefly goes into INR AREA/POINT before actually going into AREA/POINT. It is essentially saving the image in the image correlator. It keeps the CZ on the MFD anytime there is a slew error and pressing the MFD CZ is always treated as the "master" CZ essentially and tells the TGP/SPI to go back to the coords; whereas the HOTAS command is treated as a secondary option and is moreso telling the TGP to go back to the first image in the memory which can only do so if it can see (unmasked). Similar to how when you close your eyes and then spin yourself, and without opening your eyes try to face towards the last thing you were looking at before you closed your eyes. You can only correlate when you open your eyes.

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