LowRider88

I think you are right Thinder. When people compare between F-5 to MiG-21, they are often referring to the MiG-21F model, as I understand it. That was the lightest version. All versions had the same wing and wing shape, with the exception of the Chinese versions. Yet all later versions go progressively heavier. So the wing loading goes up. And they didn’t add any new high lift devices except the blown flaps. But that is more to help planes with bad wing loading to land, like the F-104 as well. MiG-21 was a sports car in the Vietnam war compared to the F-4 and F-8. But the two most maneuverable fighters in that theatre would have to be the F-5 and the Mig-17. I have no confidence a MiG-21 bid could defeat an F-5, or any 4 gen fighter.

Oh, wow, Thanks very much Svend_Dellepude. I didn’t know that existed. Just mapped what I could see on the stick. I will try this out tonight. Just another reason to love the little fighter.

I created a new generated mission with the Nevada map, just an F-5 as US Aggressor against a F-14B. The two sides are only US and US Aggressor. Only generated with F-5 as player plane, and only other objects were min enemy fighters. Had to remove all the SAMs and vehicles after generation, by the way, as the generator added them, even though I specified none for every thing except the min enemy planes. All climate time values were vanilla, summer, clear, noon. F-14B skill level was set to Average. After I shoot down the F-14 is when the messages appear in the top right, with grey backing bars. They stay on screen for about 5 seconds. Same bars as those which appear in the training videos, that later fade away. I looked everywhere for how to disable this: mission settings, General controls, overall game settings. I tried Left Ctrl + Left Shift + Y, but nothing helped. If you have any ideas, I would greatly appreciate your help!

“Bad day to be enemy.” “Let em have it!” “Way to fly that thing!” What am I, 12 years old? How the heck do I remove these childish victory congratulations!? So lame and corny!

I would like to apologize to the OP, don’t mean to take the subject off topic. The article is awesome.

Thanks for these details and your feedback. Having played around with the IL-2 1946 FMs, I don’t believe all sims separate the AI FM vs the User FM as you say. The AI has scripts to replicate the user decisioning. But in IL-2, both AI and user FMs are based the same parameters like lift and drag coefficients. Are you saying in DCS, a plane can have different coefficients between AI and user FMs? If so, why? That would not be DCS but arcade. I am the opposite. I do not enjoy wasting 20 minutes in an endless cycle of vertical loops that is the case with the top skill level of the current AI in DCS. That is a waste of time playing against UFOs, doing the same maneuvers, only to run out of gas. Fun times. Instead I only play against Average AI skill level now, as I found The current 2.5 average is equivalent to the earlier 1.5.x expert skill level, which did seem more realistic. If it is too stupid, I just add more enemies. Better than wasting time.

Aren’t the old FMs the original planes like F-15, Su-25, etc.? Doesn’t MiG-21 have professional FM? What ever the case, why did it get upgraded with no stall limit, only to have this fixed again? Seems like there is some perceived need to ensure parity between the F-5E and MiG-21, maybe for the sake of some multiplier matchups, when all the science points to the MiG-21 being less endowed with high lift devices than the F-5 or F-16.

Which one would be the stick limiter? Is that the pitch damper cut off you are referring to? So is that what Countvonaltibar was referring to or is there actually another switch for roll rate?

Hi Countvonaltibar, which switch are you referring to that doubles the roll rate?

Just want to add that this version appears to be the one in the Top Gun movie (no rwr, chaff flare dispenser, shark nose), and therefore is the same early version used in the actual Top Gun school. Great option for historical combat, reliving the movie, and DACT.

Hi SkateZilla, Is there any way we can mod the pylon 3D objects so that they could spatially include the refuelling probe and the tip tanks, so they don’t get dropped with the other tanks, or take up a store point?

I completely agree with you. However, I think some planes are more culprits than others.

AI and player FM may be different. I suspect because the AI takes liberties with speed retention and acceleration. This may possibility be because most flight manuals I see don’t mention stats like those for a car like 0 to 60, or other drag or acceleration related measures. I suspect the AI FM is based on the player FM but with these liberties in drag and acceleration. But so what if it is only AI? I don’t play online, and only with AI so it is a concern for me. And it stI’ll doesn’t explain the disparity between the MiG-21 and the F-5 / F-16.

Wow, a new flight model for the MiG-21 that makes it even more maneuverable? Seems over the top to me. I haven’t updated yet and am now scared too. No more UFO MiG-21 please. Here try this. Pit an AI MiG-21 average skill against an AI F-16, average skill. Watch as the MiG-21 not only keeps up with the F-16 in hard turning, but outlasts it. The fight ends with the F-16 ditching because it runs out of fuel. In what universe is this possible? The MiG-21 is aerodynamically clean for going straight and level only. In turns it only had a good instantaneous turn. After the instantaneous turn, it should be dead slow like a floating rock, unless it keeps straight and level again to slowly rebuild speed. It can’t maintain the speed in a turn, it is just aerodynamically impossible. It has no fore body strakes, LERX, blended wing body, relaxed static stability, FBW, reclined seat, shaped inlet for smooth AOA airflow, and lifting body fuselage that the F-16 has. So how can it turn with it? Because of the MiG-21’s emergency afterburner and it’s blown flaps? The blown flaps actually draw power away from the thrust, and it’s only good in landings, when you expect to start dropping to the earth. The MiG-21 has a turbojet engine while the F-16 has a turbofan. So how is the the MiG able to outlast the F-16? Also the F-16 can carry more fuel in its blended wing. Don’t mean to rant, but I had posted on DCS MiG-21 support page about UFO FM and never got a response. There are accounts from Soviet test pilots who were shocked to find in tests with a captured F-5E that it was not only able to beat the MiG-21Bis in 1 minute, but early an MiG-23 in 5 minutes as well. Just seems DCS is more unrealistically favourable to the MiG-21 than the F-5 or even F-16 for that matter.

These two planes intrigue me the most of the WWII plane match ups. I had a lot of fun with the DCS Spit and 109, learning how the 109’s slats, maneuvering flaps at 15 degrees and injection can tame the otherwise superior elliptical wing of the spit. In the same way, players may enjoy learning the strengths and weaknesses of these two fighters. I’ve read WWII US pilots marveled at the Ki-43’s acrobatic abilities, like executing two Immelmanns followed by a wing over before stalling, because of its Fowler flaps, and light weight (because of the lack of armour). It beat everything until it came up against the P-40. The same book I read mentioned how the P-40 could play chicken with the Ki-43, firing and taking hits, or even ramming it because of its armour. It’s weakness in comparison was being less agile when low and slow. But pilots soon learned to stay at mid altitude, spiral diving away from a bogey from behind, and then zoom climbing for a head on pass, taking advances of a heavier but less drag airframe. Someone from SAS1946, showed me how to mod the FMs in IL-2 to relive this scenario, and it was quite rewarding to play both sides of the story. It would be great to play that again with full fidelity DCS.

As far as wish lists go, people talk about how there are so many western planes, and not enough eastern bloc planes. May I suggest the two piston engined fighters to take part in the Korean War, the La-9 or La-11, and the Yak-9P? These could be good opponents for the existing DCS P-51, and P-47 (although truthfully, I don’t thing the P-47 faced these two fighters, but they would still be fun and help balance the portfolio).

Since the F-5E’s cannon is so fast firing, I was attempting to conserve ammo by only using one of the two cannons at a time. However, I noticed that only one of the two cannon circuit breakers works. Would it be possible to enable the other switch as well?

I would like to see this plane as well. It fills out the evolutionary line of NA Aviation in DCS, from P-51, F-86, F-100, F-5, F-18.

Was the low speed controllability really resolved with extended wing span? My understanding was that the cause of the SabreDance was because they swept wings were so long they went past the centre of lift or gravity, and that it did not have wing fences like the MiG-19, or LERX like the later F-5. Not fighting with you :). Just curious if you know something I haven’t come across yet.

This is a key point. The more a plane is used by more countries, the more buyers DCS will have to support the module.

+1 Would like to see the Nanchang Q-5 as well, and the IL-28.

Please excuse me if this has already been reported. When I drive into a hanger, and request a repair, the plane is lifted as usual, but in this case, it continues up through the hanger roof, and after the repair sits on top of the roof. Would it be possible to raise it less in the hanger or restrict repairs to outside the hanger?

Please excuse me if this has already been reported. After I shoot down an AI plane, and the AI pilot ejects, the dead plane continues to drop flares. I could live with this bug, just thought I should share the findings.

Please excuse me if this has been reported already. I seem to recall the official pilots manual stating the canopy would be stuck if it was not opened before engine shut down. If this is the case, can this be applied for this module?

Okay Thanks Taz1004. I am glad I am not alone in wanting this.