blaster454

I agree about the shift buttons. Another issue I see is that the shift button is only active while held down (that is, it's not a sticky button). Normally not an issue but if I select a shift button on the throttle, it has to be held down to access shifted functions ... there isn't any throttle button that can be held down while allowing to reach all other buttons with the left hand. That effectively means that the 8 programmable buttons can't be shifted (unless you want to take your hand off the stick to reach across -- I don't). And if you use a thumb-accessed button to shift then you lose all the other thumb-accessed controls because I can't seem to make my thumb be in 2 places at once. It would have been much better to make the shift button apply across stich and throttle or maybe make the shift button latched so you can shift and release to use shifted commands. And you can't necessarily use the mode switch because it does affect both stick and throttle. And another issue (I think since I haven't completed investigation) is that you can't directly assign individual commands to the various hat positions. You instead have to make up a POV type command that has all hat positions defined at once then map that POV command to the hat you want. That's more complicated than it needs to be and makes programming much more difficult. As much as I like the G940 so far, I think the profiling software has a long way to go ... and I'm not sure Logitech is prepared to do anything major to that profiler because it's used across many of their controllers. When I tried printing a game layout I found that it wasn't done too neatly ... long commands don't print and the shifted/unshifted commands are bunched together making it hard to read. C'mon, Logitech, that's not hard to fix ... it just takes some patience to lay out a printed page. I'm a bit disappointed about the profile software ... but maybe I haven't dug in enough yet :book: (of course, there's not much documentation to read so it has to be trial and error :()

Well, you certainly have the right to disagree but I would expect a bit more respect to be shown. Just for your information, I said soundtrack, not music video. A soundtrack can have lots of things in it besides music and can add tremendously to the effectiveness of a video. Think things like radio comms or environmental sounds or a voice overlay describing the area you are overflying or even buzzards screeching as you set your ship down in their feeding area. Remember that a video is simply another medium for telling a story ... turning the volume down on your TV does a lot to make the story a lot harder to understand and enjoy. And, IMHO, good music does a lot to add to a video if it's appropriate and timed to the events being displayed. Just take a look at a few of GA's videos if you need to ponder that. Anyway, thanks for sharing your opinion. Hope you have a nice day. :pilotfly:

Yes, it is still relevant. What you are lookming at is the date each of the posters originally joined the forums (under their names). The posting date is on the left in the banner preceding the post. Vista does not support spanning multiple monitors therefore must be run in window mode.

Thanks, Ghost. I appreciate the offer. Yes, it can help but I already have all the BS commands in text format (and several others ;)). What I'm trying to work out is how to convert one of those formats to the XML needed by the G940 profiler without having to do major editing. I wish Logitech Mark would come back and give us a status on the profiles they were supposed to be making...could save a fair amount of work. Actually, if I dawdle enough I'll have entered most of the BS commands into the profiler (a few at a time) :megalol:.

Yes, that jumped out at me immediately :smilewink:. I guess they save on the use of a logical variable. Instead on having Down = True they use Up = False. Not the way I would have done it, I guess. I'm looking at the way the profile maps into Excel 2007 now. There might be a way to import keystroke commands into the Logitech profile schema. The G940 device ID's seem to be in order 60, 61, and 62 relating to the stick, throttle, and pedals respectively. They assign an ID number to each macro command and then map to the device controls using the command ID reference and the button reference (and some other stuff :)). It seems a bit loose as to what defines and axis versus a band and they are remapping their axis ID's to Window's ID's (I think...I am not a Windows guru) -- Axis ID 0 maps to 1, 1 maps to 2, 2 maps to 4, 3 maps to 16, etc. Seven axes on the stick (X, Y, microX, microY, and 3 trimmers), four axes on the throttle (T1, T2, R1, R2), 3 axes on the pedals (Rudder, LBrake, RBrake). Their button ID labels might be different than what is marked on the stick and throttle...needs investigation. I'm not that familiar with using Excel to map into xml schema so this might be a more complex task than I thought. But maybe better than trying to do it all manually ... ugh! I gotta do a lot of :book:

The G940 profiles are in XML format. It would certainly be possible to build up a converter from one format (say text or Excel columns) to the required XML format ... I just have not had the time to do so yet. Rather than type in all 400+ BS commands, I would probably look at some kind of converter first, Here is a sample section from an F4:AF profile that was provided (pretty complete command set I think). Command Definition Structure Snippet: <Command Id="4" Name="External Anti Collision Lights"> <Event Type="Key" Keyname="RCTRL" Up="false" /> <Event Type="Key" Keyname="RALT" Up="false" /> <Event Type="Key" Keyname="F10" Up="false" /> <Event Type="Key" Keyname="F10" Up="true" /> <Event Type="Key" Keyname="RALT" Up="true" /> <Event Type="Key" Keyname="RCTRL" Up="true" /> </Command> Device Mapping Structure Snippet: <Assignments DeviceModel="60"> <ShiftButton Type="Button" ID="6" /> <Band RefId="396"> <Control Type="Axis" ID="4" /> </Band> <Band RefId="397"> <Control Type="Axis" ID="5" /> </Band> ... <Mapping> <Source Type="Axis" ID="1" /> <Destination Type="Axis" ID="2" /> </Mapping> <Mapping> <Source Type="Axis" ID="2" /> <Destination Type="Axis" ID="4" /> </Mapping> </Assignments> As you can probably see, the syntax is unique and they use device and Command ID's. So there would need to be some mapping functions within the conversion SW once the Logitech conventions were understood. I would not want to manually edit a file with several hundred commands plus assignments as the risk of error is too great and debugging can be painful without tools. It would have been nice (and customer friendly) had Logitech provided some documentation on their profiling scheme. One example of unfirendliness is that they use GUID's as the file name for their profiles. So, if you have several dozen different profiles it's no trivial task to decide which one you are looking at without opening them and finding the profile name...maybe easier from a developer's viewpoint but not from a user's viewpoint. :smilewink: Cheers! Blaster (aka Larry)

I agree that controller programming is not necessarily difficult and that HOTAS programming in particular is very personal -- what works for one does not necessarily work for another. But, the request here was more for a profile with the BS command set already loaded. The G940 profiling software actually is in several layers so that you can predefine sets of keystrokes (Commands in Logitech language or macros). This can be done without mapping anything to device controls. You can predefine other types of commands (and have to in some cases to map to some controls on the G940): Cycle commands (where each controller button press steps through a series of Commands and finally loops around to the beginning to start over--presumably this could be a series of macros as well as a single command), Zone commands (where you can establish zones or bands within a control's range that initiate one or more Commands when the control is within that range), POV commands (which really apply to all hats whether used for POV or not and where you predefine the commands to be executed for each position of a hat switch -- I may be mistaken here but I believe this is the only way to get commands mapped to a hat switch) Axis commands (which assign game functions to an axis although I haven't quite figured out why yet :huh:) and finally Keystrokes (which are just that and I believe simply a subset of a Command) Given the complexity of the Black Shark's command set (and not even considering other games and sims with large numbers of available keystrokes), it is beneficial to have a "starting point" to begin the actual mapping of the various commands to device buttons and axes. Since the Logitech marketing fellow had mentioned having profiles available, it's only logical to ask for them ... with everyone keying in hundreds of commands there are bound to be simple mistakes. And with people deciding that this function or that function doesn't need to be programmed to the HOTAS based on personal preference the potential is to wind up with a large number of very different command sets in profiles. When people start sharing profiles, this just makes it harder for everyone involved. Standard sets of commands for popular sims would be a definite plus for many of us ... and you could still exercise your individuality through your mapping. Also, with the addition of cycling, zone, and POV commands (and maybe axis commands, too), there are possibilities for some creative (and potentially very useful) programming. I for one enjoy seeing how other people go about solving problems since it's one way to learn and I think it's good to share ideas ... that's one of the principles behind this forum (and it works especially well here :thumbup:). So I guess I'm saying that I hope people will share their profiles here. Not (necessarily) because it's tedious or simple to do but because it can be helpful to fellow simmers who for whatever reason cannot do there own. Sorry for the long response. I'm currently working on a BS command set (as well as FSX and eventually Lomac:FC) and will make them available when I am finished. And hopefully, Wags will decide to share his profile with us ... although I can understand that he might not want to get into a position where he endorses a product publicly (or maybe "un-endorses" as the case may be :lol:)

Wags?? Have you been able to make any progress with the G940 in DCS:BS? If you have a profile started where the commands are in place and wanted to share, it would be nice ;). It doesn't look like we're getting anything from Logitech for a while :( and the "default" profiles they supplied don't appear to be very good. I can't even find one for FSX although there was a large profile for F4:AF (which I have not tested yet ... having enough problems trying to get the FFB to respond in BS and FSX).

I also have the G940 (and am happy with it). I have not yet set up a BS profile because I was waiting for Logitech Mark to post the profiles he said they had already made. Unfortunately, this might have been an empty marketing promise :(. I guess I will get started keying in all the BS action sequences (keystrokes) to build a command table and then start assigning commands to controller buttons. It's a tedious process and it doesn't look like Logitech made it particularly easy to import commands into their profiles ... that is a real shame because many of these newer sims have many hundreds of keystroke sequences :book:.

Nice review, ronht! Your impressions pretty much mirror mine. I have not had the chance yet to try the G940 on many sims but am looking forward to doing so, I agree that the quality is good ... it's actually better than I expected. The "feel" is good and the material seems more than adequate. I have seen nothing to make me think the assemblies are flimsy or cheaply made. I too have covered the deadman sensor with a small piece of electrical tape and agree that the stick seems to perform well in Black Shark. I have not yet tried to set up a profile for BS or any other game. I did set up within BS to assign enough controls and axes to do some test flying. I still have a lot of tuning to do concerning FFB and the other axis parameters. FFB is new to me and will take some getting used to. I think it would be a fairly simple matter to fabricate a sleeve of some sort that fit around the stick shaft to make covering and uncovering the sensor a simple matter. The sensor is in a small window on the right side of the stick shaft, about halfway up from the hand rest. In Black Shark, the G940 is recognized as three distinct controllers. This served to confuse me for a bit but became more familiar with "play" :smilewink:. It appears that any shift function assigned in the stick does not apply to the throttle (and vice versa). But you can assign separate shift functions to both assemblies to get further functionality. I have not looked yet to see how the Mode switch operates but I'd assume that it covers all switchology. The Logitech Gaming SW seems to be fairly powerful. It doesn't have the programmability or logical functions as in the CH and Cougar assemblies (we can always hope, though). But it does allow setting up cycling controls (where each button press executes a function--or maybe macro--and then loops around to the start of the list after the last press). It allows for the creation of "POV" commands where you can name a command and then assign each function for a hat's positions. Then you can just assign that command to a hat rather than having to go through each button press again. There is enough difference between the Logitech profiling SW and the others to make it useful to study the SW in detail to get everything out of it that is available. I like the way it is presented (the GUI) and the functionality. All in all, I am pleased with the G940 and will be replacing my X52 Pro with it (including the pedals which, although more closely spaced, I find to be very usable and just as sturdy as the Saitek pedals. I'm anxious to see how people start to use the profiling SW :). One thing I haven't figured out yet is exactly where profiles are stored :huh:. Sounds strange but I have the SW installed on both XP and Vista 64 and haven't seen a profile file yet. You can import and export profiles (in xml format but apparently not formatted for human reading--no line breaks??) and it looks like command tables (lists of keystrokes associated with a named command) are an integral part of the profile. I have an unfounded suspicion that Logitech is storing the profile data in the registry but I am hoping that is totally wrong ... nobody would do that, right?. Update: I found the profiles in (for WinXP) C:\Documents and Settings\<User Name>\Local Settings\Application Data\Logitech\Gaming Software They are harder to find because they are named with a GUID rather than with the name you supply for the profile (the name is embedded in the file, though). The profiles are in .xml format and are human readable with IE8 (at least). For some reason, Notepad++ doesn't put any line feeds in and they are next to impossible to decipher with that app. They are still not designed to be super user friendly because they use device ID's and other shortcuts...but they can be figured out. There must be an easy way to build a command table for a sim using maybe Excel and saving to .xml format ... will have to investigate. I know that putting in all 400 some odd BS commands into the profile using Add Command is tedious (no, I stopped long before that :))

Sorry, not much help, DragonRR. I just haven't had the time to test it with BS yet. I am hoping to get that done this weekend and will be glad to let you know then what I think. I did do some instant action flying just to see if the HOTAS was working (it was) but still have not figured out the FFB settings needed. I do know that if you don't cover the deadman sensor hole on the right side of the stick handle, when you let go of the stick it WILL forcefully reset to center and that will cause a fairly violent change in flight parameters (is that a master understatement or what? :) ... I've got a bit of black electrical tape over mine now and it no longer does that. I've yet to see what impact that has on day-to-day flying though. For what it's worth, I initially do like the look and feel of the G940 and the software seems to be pretty good. I too am coming from an X52 Pro and Pedals and so far like the G940 better. Of course, that's based on all of 15 minutes stick time in BS. Need lots of RTFM :book:

I still have my Saitek pedals attached. I'm going to try the Logitech pedals this weekend. If I like them I'll use them. If not, I'll keep the Saitek pedals and the G940 pedals will go into the closet shelf.

Could it be that one of you is talking about an axis assignment where the direction of travel determines the trim being applied and the other is talking about a "banded" or "zoned" approach where a control with travel (like the rotary trims) applies positive trim on one end and negative trim on the other end (of the control's travel)? The difference would be between using an analog axis and using digital buttons for up/down trim or left/right trim.

I haven't found one yet, Killjoy. And there doesn't seem to be a lot of guidance that comes with the software. There is some help and a tutorial but I've found no in-depth explanations or examples to show the various types of programming. And the Logitech Gaming Software seems to have some good features (like zone assignments--which I assume are like banding on Saitek controllers--and cycling commands--which step through a series of commands {and maybe macros} with each button press). Hopefully we'll see some programming guidance emerge either from Logitech or from us users. One thing I noticed is that the supplied "profiles" (FSX, Falcon 4, IL2, ...) are incomplete in that most of the buttons and axes are unassigned. What they did do was to provide the sim commands to make programming the HOTAS easier (you can select from a list of commands when assigning an action to a control).

No, I don't suppose you do have to use pedals for the rudder ... I went for many years without pedals. But they do make controlling an aircraft or helicopter much easier. Alternatives include a HOTAS or joy stick with a rudder control (X45 had a rocker on the throttle)0, X52 Pro has a twist stick rudder). You could also assign two buttons on your throttle or stick (or other controller) to be rudder controls--although this uses valuable HOTAS button assignments. You can also use the keyboard keys to control the rudder although this requires you to remove your hands from (probably) the throttle and then to find the keys. They are usually assigned to corresponding keys (like Z and X or < and >) to make it easier. Many people fly this way. But in the end, the pedals are just one more factor which adds to the realism and immersion of a sim. If you've ever tried to take off in a skittish tail dragger with a big engine and no rudder pedals, you know how much fun it can be holding to the runway centerline (or, for that matter, holding to the runway at all :smilewink:). My first time in an old Citabria resulted in a visit to the runway grass side area and one broken runway light :lol:

Initial impressions: Boxed very well. Logitech's "shelf" packaging, inside a Logitech heavy cardboard outer package, inside a heavy amazon.com outer cardboard package. Arrived with no damage visible via UPS. Initially, the quality impression was good. Finish is good and all three components appear to be well made and appear to be durable. Throttle is sexy! It's a bit wider than the X52 Pro throttle and a bit more long. It sits lower than the X52 Pro. Motion is good and there are subtle detents at each end of travel. Button placement is OK although the end-to-end travel on the rotaries is more than a single "finger flick". I will miss not having center detents. I'm not sure how I'll map these yet but I may wind up making them banded sliders with a comfortable dead zone With my long-finger hands I can get to all buttons and rotaries OK. Not sure about a smaller hand. [*]Stick is also very nice. It has a good feel and the material is comfortable to hold. button placement was a bit difficult. With my hand resting on the hand rest, the pinkie switch was very comfortable and the side button was easily reachable. The bottom row of the upper buttons was in good position but I had to shift upward to reach the top hat and buttons S1/S2. Trim buttons look nice but I sure wish they had detents, too. I also wish they were on the throttle :smilewink: ... it's a stretch to reach across with the left hand to use the trim controls (and maybe impossible in some installations). Maybe I'll use a bright paint to make the center position more readily visible. FFB remains a variable to me. I've never used an FFB stick before so there is a learning curve. The deadman switch definitely has an impact when you remove your hand. Some black electrical tape will come in handy there. [*]Rudder pedals are not connected yet but first impression was that they appear sturdy and well made. They are closer together than the Saitek pedals I have now but I don't think they are too close. I'll have to get them positioned and then try them in flight. [*]The SW installed with no issue on WinXP ... I installed the 5.07 version. It recognized the G940 right away and went through a calibration routine before starting the profiler. It recognized FSX, Falcon 4 AF, CFS3, and IL2. It did not find DCS:BS. The GUI looks slick and professional and seems to work OK. Won't be trying programming till later this weekend. Would be nice to have command lists for some popular sims to make it easier to make a new profile ... I still have to see how the SW is laced together before doing anything there. Will try an install on my 64-bit Vista laptop tomorrow. So far it hasn't leaped off my table or bruised my arm ... but then I haven't done much yet :joystick: More later with some pics if I can ... I am no good with the movie making :(

It's nice to know that Logitech are maintaining visibility with the community:thumbup: ... now if you could just convince customer support that the G940 is released ;) Mark, did you say before that you were making some profiles available via download?

Well, I'm going to try it anyway. Amazon has shipped and it should be here Wednesday afternoon. Unfortunately, I have to go to my sister's house in north central PA to dogsit for the weekend. I'm carrying along the laptop and my ham radio gear so I may not take the G940 with me (although I do have DCS:BS loaded on the laptop). Unfortunately, I have a 64-bit Vista OS on the laptop too and I understand Logitech's 64-bit driver may not be working correctly yet ... I'll have to test. My rationale is simple really ... I want to try the FFB on BS and I don't have a lot of confidence that Saitek will put out an X65 system either on time or with good software (drivers and profiler).

:doh: That's me smacking my forehead and saying DOH! :smilewink: Such a simple solution and here I am sitting trying to figure out a way around the pedals. Yes! I will keep the Saitek pedals and I think all the flight sims I'm flying right now do recognize multiple USB devices. Thanks for waking me up CyBerkut :thumbup:

So has no one received this and used it with BS enough to give a short review? So far, the reviews have been at opposite ends of the spectrum almost ... some of that I can understand because flight controls are very personal and what may be great for one simmer is terrible for the next. But there should be some information on how the FFB features work with BS. Is it better than manual trimming (either old or new)? Worse? The same? What about general quality. Rugg's review said the quality was great but ECO-Dragon's review said the rudder pedals were "like rubber" ... is that the difference between pre-production models and production units? Or is it the difference between simmers expectations? I guess I really want the G940 to be a viable product to be able to have the FFB features in BS. I do not have much faith in Saitek delivering a faultless X65 (either HW or SW) and I do want an FFB HOTAS solution. I wonder if anyone who has these has yet looked at the "proprietary" connections of the throttle and pedals to the stick. I'm curious to see if they are really proprietary or USB-like connections with different connectors? I think Logitech made a mistake by forcing the whole G940 package as I am very satisfied with my Saitek pedals. Perhaps it's just a matter of tiome before someone figures out how to swap components in or out :smilewink:. Anyway, if you have a G940 already and are flying BS, what are your initial impressions? You don't have to write a review or be an English major. I (we?) just want to know how you like it. Does it work? Or not? And I have one on order either way I guess ... if amazon really is shipping them.

I think I can understand the draw for this type hardware, especially for the more-than-casual flight simmer. This type device seems to me to add immersion and extra buttons, both of which are never available in sufficient quantity! :smilewink: It's really no different than using something like Touchbuddy where I may have, for example, on another screen a background image of a panel (including MFD type displays). I usually put some relevant information in the screen area to aid in using the panel or MFD. Thi9s is similar to what TM has done with the overlays ,(eh, I guess they're underlays!). I don't have the room (or the talent :megalol:) for a full simpit, though I'd dearly love one. A pair of these MFD devices for only ~$70 US goes a long way to increasing the realism. And I have seen the asking prices for more realistic MFD frames for the more serious in our crowd! These from TM are a bargain if they don't collapse under use. 28 buttons per MFD = 56 buttons and that is about a buck and a quarter US per switch. Believe me, I have priced switchology at a lot more than that during my pit-building fantasy excursions :joystick: Besides, I have a cute VGA 7" touchscreen I'm not using that might be a partial fit somewhere! :smilewink:

I've watched a few of your videos. They are good and worth watching to see the great graphics world of BS. It would be better if you were more smooth on the camera angle changes ... what I saw was jerky and detracted from the quality of the video. Some sort of soundtrack would have been nice ... even a text overlay describing locations or actions would have given the videos some life.

Several thoughts and recommendations (I have all three running at the same time). 1. You will need to reinstall the SST software to have the magic devices available. 2. It may be Saitek's Direct Output that is the problem. There are reports of Direct Output having conflicts with some MS mouse software. 3. Even with the SST SW installed, you don't have to run with a profile installed into the X52 nor do you have to run with the profiler.exe SW running (I think). I'd try to reinstall the SST software and then disable direct output service (it just allows sending data to your throttle's MFD and is not needed). Then try to run BS without a profile loaded and see if you have the stick mouse control. If there are no crashes, you can they try to load a simple profile to check stability. As mentioned, it is important to get the latest SW install files for both drivers and SST. And make sure you have the newest drivers for each of your Saitek controllers if you have more than one. Hope this helps!

Hey, Mark! Did the U.S. release date hold for 3 September? Amazon still has it listed as pre-order. Maybe an explanation of what Logitech means by "release" would help. Has stock been pre-positioned at retailers and release means available for sale? Or (and I hope not :)) is it more like a release to manufacturing or distribution and we have to wait another several weeks for the pipeline to fill? Also, any chance on knowing who got pre-release eval hardware (besides Ruggbutt) so we can hound them for reviews? :smilewink:

Now that is absolutely brilliant!! I would have never thought of the webcam/dual-monitor approach. Now, a question. My monitors are 1613 x 922 and 5405 x 1029. Can anyone provide the lua code for my multi-monitors setup? I want to display the ABRIS and Schkval on just the webcam! Help please!! :helpsmilie: Please note that this is sarcasm :smilewink: ... I really don't have two monitors and would not want to figure the aspect ratios if I did :megalol: