ZQuickSilverZ

Thank you power5. I think right now I will give it 6 months and see what happens. I do think this product will be announced soon. Its just a logical step. Someone has already posted a dual screen laptop. I think thats a sign of things to come. Keyboards are great for what they are but it would be much better for a keyboard to be able to design itself according to the software your using to make programs more user friendly. The only fault I see with this system is lack of haptic feedback. It is just a question of if what you gain is worth losing the physical feedback you get from a keystroke and how adaptable they can make it. If they can ever solve that then the age of the standard keyboard will truly be over.

Alot of the smaller touchscreens are now USB powered. The case would not be a problem for a purpose made product. Your point about it being the only product that uses that size and shape of LCD is lost on me. LCD's are made in all shapes and sizes these days. Look at all the phones out there with different sized LCD's, all the kiosk out there with different sized LCD's, all the car stereo equipment out there with different sized LCD's. As far as building one myself I have seen 2 (larger) screens combined in a home cockpit before that had the middle part of the bezels removed and the screens made flush to create one screen (though it had a line down the middle). So your problems were Case - Solved with purpose built case Gap in the middle of the screen - Solved in a purpose built screen, possible problem if I built it myself VGA inputs - solved with USB connected and powered monitors Properly Sized Screen - I don't beleive this to be as much of a problem as you do I suppose since LCD's are made in all shapes and sizes. I believe this keyboard to be an inevitability. With all this touch tech floating around I am sure it is just around the corner. Let's see how much it cost when it comes out.

I would not begin to know where to find someone to make a prototype KB. I don't posses the skill to make the software for that. Anybody out there know where to find a company that can make a touchscreen to fit? I might just download some touchbuddy software and make the thing myself. I had considered taking 2 10 inch monitors and combining them. I have seen pics where the bezel was removed to make one display on other bigger monitors. I think this monitor would be perfect for my needs. http://notebooks.com/2010/07/12/imo-monster-10-inch-usb-powered-touchscreen-monitor/ The author of the article says the price at 259.99 is steep. So that tells me you can get simular tech cheaper. the screen is only 1 inch thick. Kinda like a regular KB huh? I suppose I could buy one now for proof of concept tests.

Slayer thats a great idea. The problem is you have to touch it to center. Typist keep thier fingers on the home row so it works great. In a game enviroment you dont have your hands positioned like a typist your pushing 1 to 3 keys. So it would be difficult to say just push the g button. Power I don't know about cpu's in keyboards.... maybee they have them. Keyboards usually don't have memory your PC software takes care of all that. They could have memory (for profiles and such) but its not neccessary in any way and it surely is not ram. No keyboard / monitor has ram. Why would ANY keyboard need short term memory? No keyboard / monitor has a graphics chip. Why would they? The tower has graphic cards. Touch screens may get warm.... but they don't get that hot otherwise they would burn you. You have a valid point about economy of sales. However, your point about it being a product noone uses (software I mean)....... almost every PC product uses a keyboard. Your comments about graphics chips and memory in a touchscreen tell me that you have little experience with computer hardware. Your making an arguement for something that its very clear you have little understanding of. No offense power5

Power requirements should not be an issue if its powered off of USB. I have seen alot of smaller touch screens powered this way (backlit too) and even if thats not possible an electrical outlet can be used. A touchscreen keyboard by design is not portable so compareing it to an IPhone does'nt work since it does not require a battery. Also an IPhone has a CPU inside it, memory, a battery (which is expensive by itself), a camera, flash, GPS function, high performance speakers, and a high performance mic. All those things add to the cost beyond simply the price of the touchscreen. An IPhone is not just a phone with a touchscreen its a mini computer. I also believe that Apple products have an inflated price anyway. I have to assume that since current small screen monitors don't get hot and current touch screens don't get hot that heat won't be a problem. I belive that this product could very easily be made for that pricepoint. I could do it right now but the dimensions would not be right (though I would have to use a power cord) using a 15 inch monitor. I could make this now for $358. The only differene is what I would have to use now has a bigger screen and no software. So if I can do it now for $358 then why is 300 low and naive.

power5 how is what I asked for any different than current LCD monitors outside of the keyboard like measurements? LCD's are already super thin (ever seen an IPhone, and that has a processor, a camera, phone electronics and a battery) so how is making one as thin as a keyboard a big deal? How is using a touch keyboard any different than using a touch screen except for the location? Its not. That touch interface is already being made for the monitors. Those all have to work with all the things you mentioned (drivers, GUI's, motherboards, OS's) so why could'nt the keyboard? Also if the touch keyboard takes off they don't have to program for future software. The software will have to be programmed to take advantage of the keyboard. Also the monitors are not way more expensive you can get a 15 inch touchscreen right now on newegg for $359. So how do you figure that a 15 inch (which is a bigger display) with built in speakers is a doable consumer price but $300 for smaller sized screen with no speakers is unrealistic. Your making alot of comments but none of them seem to have any kind of research behind them. You even had a poster come in here and say that his company's software can already do it. $300 dollars is not insulting sir..... your comments are insulting.

Thats sorta what I envisioned. I did'nt think of making icons on the keyboard though, thats a cool idea. I think thats a bit much but I might pay $200 to $300 dollars. I mean honestly what I had in mind is really just a keyboard shaped and sized monitor. Touch technology is becomeing the norm so the hardware should not be that expensive. It should'nt be much more expensive than a touch screen. Honestly the first time I thought about this was about a year after Nintedo DS came out. I thought to myself you know what, I bet laptops in the future will be built like this. One screen would just be a display touch screen (for main display but still touchable) and the other a touch screen that can display program specific interactive control interfaces. I honestly still believe this will come to pass. Its just a matter of time.

I was just curious. Why hasn't one of the major pc hardware market guys made a fully customizable touchescreen keyboard for gaming? Touchbuddy is great and all but for me it would just be better to totally get rid of the standard keyboard and get touch buddy functionality without having to have an extra monitor taking up space. Plus it would fit on my desktop and be easy to reach (I imagine most touchbuddy displays your reaching across the desk creating fatigue over time). I would like to see something so simple that you could litterly draw what keys you wanted with a styles on the keyboard and assign keys strokes or macros or for finer detail use a design program. Take a first person shooter for example. When I play CoD4 I only use 10 keys on the keyboard (the rest of what I need is on my mouse). It would be nice to eliminate the rest of them and put the others where I WANT them. You could have a switch button that would bring back the regular keyboard in case you wanted to text chat or something then flip it back. You could litterly make your keyboard key say landing gear for instance and have it shaped like a triangle. You could launch missles with a button that litterly looked like a missle. The keys could even be color coded according to the situation (like red for laser off and green for laser on for instance) The keys could even be animated (like fire coming out the back of a missle). You could even have your keyboard give you alerts like Email, Xfire messages, run a timer, display the DCS manual, display the time, display people speaking in teamspeak, on part of the left side and all your controls on the right. Play mini games while your helo starts up, watch internet TV while your flying that long haul to the waypoint, dial in your TrackIR settings in game. So what do you guys think.... should logitech or saitek do this? Maybee another company? What ideas do you have that you could use a fully customizable touch keyboard for. Would this be marketable?

Kuky I think the list I set up at the top is pretty competative. I listed a Hotas, a LED headtracking unit, and a webcam for FreeTrack all for under $100 dollars. Everything on the list was researched. Everything on the list got multiple postive reviews from multiple websites. I would argue that everything up there is high quality. I would also argue that under $100 dollars is a cheap price for that kind of set up. There are plenty of products out there that are a little older yet still very usable for less money. This list is not only to find cheaper wares but to filter out the JUNK thats out there that may seem like a good deal but really is not.

I would appreciate it if you guys could keep this list going. Don't let it get shoved into the back of the forums and die. Let's keep searching for low cost ways to introduce new simmers to quality equipment. Maybe equipment that is a little older but has a proven track record. Please don't post equipment you have not owned or not researched just because its cheap. When most people start these sims they have no idea what they really need or what is avaiable (like TrackIR / FreeTrack for instance). They also don't usually prepare for the cost of the hobby. Let's use our experience and expertise to help them get off to a good start. Just think of this thread as a public service.

Say2Play would be my second choice. And I have tried over 5 differrent programs. I have a "cracked" version of GC2. I tried to buy a retail copy of it but, as you already know, they went out of business.

Yes it does. However you may need to download TrackIRfixer.

power5 again you have lost me. You really think IL2 seemed that bad? I mean you are entitled to your opinion of course but DCS is based on the Lock On engine which itself is pretty old. Oleg will NEVER make a sim as high fidelity as the DCS series. Oleg makes (in my opinion) a very high quality sim with many aircraft that is very playable. How many hundreds of models of aircraft are in IL2? You can't expect that kind of fidelity with that kind of variety. Oleg knows what he is doing. He knows who is audience is. What do you feel (besides the advanced avionics thats a given) that DCS offers that IL2 does not? Physics? Damage models (which is very sophisticated in IL2)? Navigation instrumentation? Radio communications? Engine management? Headtracking? IL2 has all of these things. I can't help but feel that your letting your enthusiasm (which is great) for the DCS series interject faults onto IL2 that are not there. Maybee you can clarify why you felt it was "bad".

I decided to put together a list of high quality products that will give people the benefit of a HOTAS and Headtracking Unit for a minimal amount of money. First the HOTAS Thrustmaster Joystick T-Flight Hotas X http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=149&PlatformID=12 33.95 Cost 0.00 Shipping 39.95 Total Second the Camera Microsoft LifeCam VX-1000 http://reviews.cnet.com/webcams/microsoft-lifecam-vx-1000/4505-6502_7-32079389.html 6.00 Cost 7.00 Shipping 13.00 Total Third the HeadTracker LED's Track Clip Pro http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/product-TrackClip-PRO.html 34.95 Cost 0.00 Shipping (Unknown) 34.95 Total (Aprox) Fourth FreeTrack Software http://free-track.net/ 0.00 Cost 0.00 Shipping 0.00 Total (It's Free) So the total cost for the whole set up is 81.90 (Aprox) Granted alot of this was priced on EBAY and prices fluctate but the prices are "in the neighborhood" so to speak and prove you can get a competitive setup for under $100 wich was my initial goal. For the new simmer on a budget. WH_QuickSilver

Lodestone if you did indeed run Skies of Valor your opinion should carry a HUGE amount of weight (I think anybody that has played IL2 knows about THAT server). How about starting a thread giving tips on mission design since you ran one of the most popular servers in IL2. I think the DCS/FC2.0 crowd could benefit from your expertise.

Hello friend I think I have the perfect solution for you. First the HOTAS http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T-Flight-Hotas-X/dp/B001CXYMFS The stick and throttle can be split into two units. Every review I have read of this product has been excellent Second get the FreeTrack Software http://free-track.net/ Third the TrackIR Proclip http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/product-TrackClip-PRO.html This gives you the same LED set up as someone using TrackIR Total Cost $82.73 Provided you already have a webcam you can have it all for under 100 dollars. Also consider voice control software. I suggest Game Commander 2. Your welcome.

power5 I have to ask how much experience you have in IL2. When I fly online with my squad there is definitely a "Method" to thier combat. I don't know if they offer anything but deathmatch online on public servers but we fly coop. Also the missions we play are usually anything but "instant". Sometimes we have to fly for a while before we even see enemies. In my experience it takes alot more teamwork to down a single target in IL2.

You know I have always wondered that myself. Granted IL2 1946 is a top tier product but what about it draws so many people to it? I mean honestly DCS is superior in every way (technically I mean) yet...... I am of the opinion they like the "in thier face" aspect present in IL2 (I say they, I play IL2 also but prefer more modern aircraft). IL2 combat is more close quarters. Also in IL2 there is no electronic crutch to lean on. It's YOU vs THEM. Maybee they don't feel like thier as much of a part of the combat as they do in IL2 (because of the modern electronics). What do you guys think?

airea is that a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2?

I think were getting off topic here. The topic is what is losing FC 2.0 compatability going to do to server population for the foreseeable future, and will the server population recover over time. Lets focus. Air Quakers or whatever it is you call them, that is another thread all together. I mean would you rather fly with "airquake" guys or would you rather fly on an empty or low populated server?

Cali I think what he was saying is that its easy to go fly around and shoot things (easy to learn). The mastery comes from working as a team with other people. Thats always a trick to do in ANY game (hard to master). Especially when the number of people increases and they are using different equipment (different types of jets and a helo). Your obviously used to working with a team (3SQN). You have had time to pull your squad together. It's not so easy to work as a team for some people especially if they are really inexperienced with flight sims and get lost in the complexity.

Keycat if you are not already in a squad please check out War Hawks Flight Squadron. http://www.war-hawks.net/ I feel like you project qualities we look for in members and feel you would be a great addition to the squad. Any others that are looking feel free to stop by and see what we have to offer.

I have never seen an online game use gamemode. I don't even know if you can run a server in gamemode. What does that have to do with integrating new people ino our hobby and getting them on the servers we play on? How does gamemode let me play with new people on the 104th server for instance? Also, I am not suggesting that they keep FC 2.0 compatable forever. That is just silly. I am only suggesting that they wait until at least ONE fast mover is available. Otherwise were missing a huge aspect of modern air combat. I would like to make another point about the FC 2.0 aircraft. Yes they may be easier to use but they are also a lot less capable. Don't you think all the extra things that you can do in the WHC make up for the WHA's ease of use? Some people prefer five speeds, some automatics.

I think keycat has a good point (+1 Keycat). FC2 really is a good introduction or alternative for people that are new to flight sims (I would think more experienced people would move on to DCS) or do not have the time or want to learn them. It is also a good stepping stone to the DCS series. I mean honestly you can not expect someone to make an easy transition from say Call of Duty 4 (FPS's seem to be the main audience these days) to something like DCS and not suffer a bit of intimidation from the complexity. We are a different crowd then someone fresh to flight sims (our games ARE NOT pick up and play). We have kind of "grown up" with them. Imagine someone that has never played a flight sim, knows nothing about aircraft, buying a DCS title and then seeing the 600 page instruction manual (for ONE aircraft).

To me if they don't make DCS KA50 and DCS A10C compatable thats a deal breaker. I thought the whole idea behind DCS was to have a high fidelity flight sim that had ONLINE compatable modules. Also, don't all the games share the fighter collection engine? I'm no programmer, but I don't understand why its such a huge ordeal to make something compatable that uses the same engine. I also understand that DCS A-10C has graphic upgrades. I totally get that. But to me your already overwriting the part of the game that displays terrain. Can't they just use the same code (on the same engine mind you) for FC 2.0? Also if there are DCS KA50 / A10C and DCS KA50 / FC 2.0 servers both running at the same time how are we supposed to know which are which? Also how do we even know that ED even HAS a next module lined up? They have not announced anything. So a year wait may not even matter if they have nothing planned right now. Im not totally opposed to paying for a DCS A10C comptability patch for FC 2.0 either.