Labels or No

I have labels on because the infrared mavericks never show up the targets until its to late:cry: or you see it by chance, same with the others.

I never use labels although my AI wingman must be because he can find targets a lot easier then I can.

Uncanny, isn't it? He's also very efficient with the gun...

Nope.

No labels here. To me, finding the targets is as rewarding as destroying them. I also prefer flying without a wingman cause he makes me feel like I'm as blind as a bat :D

I also prefer flying without a wingman cause he makes me feel like I'm as blind as a bat :D

It's a wee bit safer sometimes as well!:music_whistling:

My observation was it increases SA, but when close it just clutters my screen and I don't like it

I know what you mean about safer. I had to learn the hard way to anchor him before landing. He knocked me out of the sky during an approch. I like using him mainly to clear all the AA's so I can mop up the rest of the targets.

Labels ruin the immersion for most folks, and if you want to fly online, you can forget about them.

If you are really having that hard of a time spotting targets, instead of labels, increase your max zoom level as described in this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=76866

The game could actually be considered more realistic with this change, rather than labels, which really just amount to cheating. Not saying that cheating isn't fun, or that cheating is bad, or that the only way to fly this sim is with all the cheats off. After all, I cheat frequently with various wacky load-outs just to have a good time and give me something different to do (example:

I think the stock labels are indeed cheating. They are way too obvious, give too much info, and are impossible to miss. *Modded* minimalistic labels however, I disagree are cheating. They can be just a few pixels wide, all the same color (black for example) and only at specific ranges. In my view, the lack of visual accuity on a PC setup is roughly compensated by this addition. I've spent a lot of time in the air, and I assure you that the human eye is 1000x better in real life than the portrayal on a PC screen.

Consider that the A-10's primary mission was visual ID of targets. in the A-10A days, it was expected that the pilot would aquire most if not all of their targets visually (with binoculars). If you take away your TGP, do you feel you could still fight the aircraft succesfully in this sim, in a dynamic non JTAC scenario? I doubt I could.

So try nerfing the labels down and see for yourself. I use them when needed, and don't feel very bad about it.

Some quick, back-of-the-napkin trig calculations will tell you that at max zoom level, you are theoretically getting as good or slightly better resolution than a real pilot with really good eyes. The LOD though tends to greatly diminish your detection range, because at a certain size, ED has it set up that vehicles go from easily-spied little 3D models to suddenly being almost invisible boxes the same color as the terrain half the time.

If you take away your TGP, do you feel you could still fight the aircraft succesfully in this sim, in a dynamic non JTAC scenario? I doubt I could.

Yes, I have done. It's a matter of using zoom to your advantage. With default zoom levels, I have successfully spotted targets 9nm away, though that is pretty rare. But even with default min FOV of 20 though, you can still spot targets.

Now if you mod your min FOV to be like 5 degrees, you can get by just fine without the TGP, because it's like having binoculars in the pit. You will still do better with a TGP as well, of course. But the first time, about two weeks ago, I went up in the air with my min FOV set to 5 degrees... I was orbiting at angels 20+ and spotting dozens of ground targets just left and right. It was incredible, and to tell you the truth, better than the targeting pod, because quite often, you cannot zoom the targetting pod out far enough.

What I just wish is that there was a "snap binoculars" where your FOV would change from 20 degrees to binocular-level instantaneously, with no in-between steps.... it would be great if they put a circular field stop in there too. NO GODDAMN DOUBLE CIRCLES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! However, I think ED is aware of how real binoculars work based off of what I remember from their JTAC binocular mode in Beta :)

I would just recommend the min FOV mod that I mentioned in this thread in a previous post.

It's a lose lose situation.

Labels on, cheap and ugly IFF and inhuman advantage that ruins immersion.

Labels off, you can't see anything because it is nothing but a pixel until you are within crashing range.

ED > Game > Config > View > Labels > Open (notepad)

Mod view distance to something realistic (6000 for aircraft, 3000 for missiles, 4000 for ground targets, 8000 for ships) and make the colours grey (200, 200, 200) for both sides.

There, perfect. Take matters into your own hands.

I accidentally started a mission with a lot of units in sight & stock labels on yesterday, and I can see why people hate them so much - they're very ugly and immersion killing - but I find this view:

labels are cheating.

peculiar to say the least.

I can quite easily see people on their balcony outside my window about 1km away, while still seeing my son out the corner of my eye in the same room as me.

With a wide enough FOV to maintain some SA, I can't even see a plane easily at 1km in the sim, never mind an infantry unit...

Run a server - set it how you like, but no labels is only arguably more realistic than full labels, and certainly less 'realistic' in any sense but 'photorealism' than edited labels.

:-)

Wouldnt it make sense to have a small red dot over armour than infantry,without the name of the unit being displayed..

Wouldnt it make sense to have a small red dot over armour than infantry,without the name of the unit being displayed..

You can mod the labels to have a wee cancan Girl performing on the turret if you want.

I accidentally started a mission with a lot of units in sight & stock labels on yesterday, and I can see why people hate them so much - they're very ugly and immersion killing - but I find this view:

 

peculiar to say the least.

I can quite easily see people on their balcony outside my window about 1km away, while still seeing my son out the corner of my eye in the same room as me.

With a wide enough FOV to maintain some SA, I can't even see a plane easily at 1km in the sim, never mind an infantry unit...

Run a server - set it how you like, but no labels is only arguably more realistic than full labels, and certainly less 'realistic' in any sense but 'photorealism' than edited labels.

:-)

So the real problem is that the computer monitor is unable to provide peripheral vision, not that it is unable to render detailed enough scenes to spot targets visually. Zoom in further... and zoom out when you aren't searching for targets.

But if you don't have a track IR... good luck! :(

Perhaps you could mod labels to the point where they would provide realisitic detection capability even while zoomed pretty far out, but if so, the label would have to be like a single pixel, and not tell you friend or foe.

But having anything that makes its ridiculously easy to spot targets just removes a huge component of the real pilot workload, and just is not realistic.

Frankly, while looking at targets while zooming in and zooming out, I think the real problem is that the LOD models for units are too well camoflauged, and the low detail LOD kicks in too suddenly at a certain zoom level. While zooming out, you will see a target instantly go from from an easily visible tiny tank to something that is a miniscule, nearly invisible green box the same color as the terrain. That is the REAL problem, IMO, and if ED found a way to get rid of this, I'm guessing labels would be much less of an issue. I suppose it might be mod-able in a Lua file somewhere, but what they really need is a LOD model between the "tiny tank" and the "invisible tiny box".

You can mod the labels to have a wee cancan Girl performing on the turret if you want.

Finally, a useful practical label idea!!:megalol:

dang I'm dumb when it comes to this...

All I want is a red dot for the enemy and blue for friendly.....

could someone show me what the LUA should look like for that?

Thanks!

I also am intimidated by messing around with the lua files...I have looked at other mods ie radio display size location changes via lua...when I try to follow the instructions, which by and large the community members here do a good job on, I just can't seem to get to where they are pointing :doh: This may be a factor of age but I wish there was an incremental step between no labels and labels...the labels are too big and do impede your aim especially on a cannon run.

This is for Flaming Cliffs 2, but I imagine it's cross compatible between all games. Changes view distances to realistic ranges for the human eye, makes the colour grey only. If you only want tick marks, just change the numerals for the units to zero, except the last one.

-- Label parameters

-- Copyright © 2004, Eagle Dynamics.

AirOn = true

GroundOn = true

NavyOn = true

WeaponOn = true

 

-- Label max distance depends on graphics visibility range option value

-- For low �E40000.0 m

-- For medium �E50000.0 m

-- For high �E80000.0 m

 

---------------------------------

-- Label text format symbols

-- %N - name of object

-- %D - distance to object

-- %P - pilot name

-- %n - new line

-- %% - symbol '%'

-- %x, where x is not NDPn% - symbol 'x'

------------------------------------------

-- Example

-- labelFormat[5000] = "Name: %N%nDistance: %D%n Pilot: %P"

-- up to 5km label is:

-- Name: Su-33

-- Distance: 30km

-- Pilot: Pilot1

 

AirFormat = {}

AirFormat[10] = ""

AirFormat[1500] = "}%N%n%D%n%P"

AirFormat[3000] = "}%N%n%D"

AirFormat[3000] = "]%n%D"

AirFormat[6000] = "'"

 

GroundFormat = {}

GroundFormat[2500] = "{%N%n%D"

GroundFormat[2500] = "~%n%D"

GroundFormat[5000] = "`"

 

NavyFormat = {}

NavyFormat[4000] = "{%N%n%D"

NavyFormat[4000] = "~%n%D"

NavyFormat[8000] = "`"

 

WeaponFormat = {}

WeaponFormat[2000] = "[%N%n%D"

WeaponFormat[2000] = "|%n%D"

WeaponFormat[4000] = "|"

 

-- Colors in {red, green, blue} format, volume from 0 up to 255

 

ColorAliesSide = {200, 200, 200}

ColorEnemiesSide = {200, 200, 200}

Zakatak:

See, this just makes my point....I have no idea what line or numbers you are talking about.

Read it again.

Change blue lines to "0" for tick marks only.

Leave red lines alone.

Disregard black lines.

If I follow you, you are saying...where the blue printing in the lau has a number value change that to zero, leave red values alone and disregard black printing?

Rocky49...just look at the numbers in brackets and forget about all the code to the right. Reduce the numbers to 0 and all you will see is a red or blue dot for a label.

Gear monkey:

 

This whole last few posting is why I am reluctant to post here anymore....too many people with attitude instead of altitude.

 

Thanks for the support

There are always a few bad apples, but the majority of users here are very patient and helpful. Don't let this experience discourage you.

I just have to say one more thing.....This is a flight sim....not a computer programming sim.....I can fly in real life...can you.....I don't need a snotty comment about my lack of understanding about lau files...I just can't see the targets out the windscreen of the A-10C as simulated by ED. I can pick off all kinds of small items from miles away in real life from 8000 feet..but not in this sim...I am trying to adapt the program to enhance my real life experience but because I am not a computer programmer I get heat from guys like J. Hiller and Zakatak. Well if thats not right...Maybe ED needs to address this...