Brisse Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 The muzzle velocity is around 800m/s. So a shell shot 600m/ 800m/s = 0.75s ago would be on gun snake on the small horizontal line (600m) Reality is a bit more complicated than that, but I'm sure jojo only simplified things for the sake of making it easy to understand. :) There's a little thing called friction, which decelerates the shell as soon as it leaves the muzzle. The example jojo gave is only true if there is no atmosphere, thus no friction. Of course, the deceleration in a certain atmosphere can be calculated and compensated for, given that the ballistic coefficient for the projectile is known.
sniperwolfpk5 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 A short video will be most welcome Win10, Intel 3rd Gen. Core i7 3.8Ghz, 20GB ram, Nvidia Geforce 1060 6GB Opentrack (Download it from HERE), PS3 Eye, Saitek x52-pro Joystick, DIY Rudder Pedals, Google Cardboard with DCS World English is not my native language
jojo Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 @ Brisse: Yes of course. But even simplified, it's not that far. The gun shell are falling, so the fall partially partially compensate for friction deceleration. Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi
Erab Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 How will the Mirage 2000C compete against the Su-27? Is it capable?
Gliptal Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Will the TM Warthog switches be implemented as proper states (like with the A10)? I don't obviously expect a plug and play configuration, since the two HOTAS are not 1:1, but will we have to mess with .lua files?
sedenion Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 How will the Mirage 2000C compete against the Su-27? Is it capable? In BVR i think the Su-27 have significant advantage, in dogfight, i think the Su-27 have to run away quickly...
Strelok Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 What about counter measurements in Mirage-2000C? Does it have some kind of EO/IR MWS or any other ECM capability (jammer etc...)? Or it have only RWR and simple countermeasures (chaff/flares)? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] -My DCS screenshots-
Erab Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 In BVR i think the Su-27 have significant advantage, in dogfight, i think the Su-27 have to run away quickly... Why is that?
OnlyforDCS Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 In BVR i think the Su-27 have significant advantage, in dogfight, i think the Su-27 have to run away quickly... I seriously doubt that. The Su27 is an extremely capable close combat fighter, and its helmet mounted targeting system and R73 close range missile should prove quite a challenge for any opponent. In all fairness it will probably come down to who is the better pilot, like it always does, but on paper the Su27 has got the edge over the Mirage both in BVR and WVR. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
Erab Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I seriously doubt that. The Su27 is an extremely capable close combat fighter, and its helmet mounted targeting system and R73 close range missile should prove quite a challenge for any opponent. In all fairness it will probably come down to who is the better pilot, like it always does, but on paper the Su27 has got the edge over the Mirage both in BVR and WVR. So what place does the M-2000 hold in DCS?
sedenion Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I'am not expert... but, i think no matter how the Su-27 is manoeuvrable, the Su-27 is a large and heavy 17 tons aircraft, and the Mirage 2000 is a thickset lightweight 8 tons aircraft... I'am not saying Su-27 is a bad dogfighter and the Mirage 2000 is a pure tiger, but, there is some obvious facts... You can't deflect 17 tons of matter from its trajectory like you can do with only 8 tons, it's Newton rules...
OnlyforDCS Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 So what place does the M-2000 hold in DCS? I don't know, what place does it have in real life? I suspect it will be great for killing Mig21's and hunting close air support planes. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
sedenion Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I suspect it will be great for killing Mig21's And again... where is the Mig-29 ? Ho excuse me... the Mirage 2000 is a french aircraft, the Mig-29 is probably too powerfull for him :)
OnlyforDCS Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I'am not expert... but, i think no matter how the Su-27 is manoeuvrable, the Su-27 is a large and heavy 17 tons aircraft, and the Mirage 2000 is a thickset lightweight 8 tons aircraft... I'am not saying Su-27 is a bad dogfighter and the Mirage 2000 is a pure tiger, but, there is some obvious facts... You can't deflect 17 tons of matter from its trajectory like you can do with only 8 tons, it's Newton rules... Momentum or inertia is only one parameter, when there are countless others, thrust to weight ratio (1.26 Su27 > 0.88 M2000C), avionics, ease of use, available weapons, countermeasures, etc. etc. etc. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
OnlyforDCS Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 And again... where is the Mig-29 ? Ho excuse me... the Mirage 2000 is a french aircraft, the Mig-29 is probably too powerful for him :) Please don't turn this into a contest. It's not about that, and shouldn't be. The M2000C is a wonderful aircraft in its own right, and no one is dismissing that. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
sedenion Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Momentum or inertia is only one parameter, when there are countless others, thrust to weight ratio (1.26 Su27 > 0.88 M2000C), avionics, ease of use, available weapons, countermeasures, etc. etc. etc. I prefer let speak people that have better expertise about that... i will just point that the Mirage 2000 have many times (most of times) advantage over the F-16 in dogfight during exercises... Do you think the Su-27 is in the same category than the F-16 in term of dogfight ? personally, i don't know, but i doubt of that.
Moos_tachu Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 So what place does the M-2000 hold in DCS? The same it has in the real world: French Air Force's main air defence asset of the 1980's / 90's. It was designed to intercept Russian bombers, to fight MiG-29 and Su-27, and to compete with F-16 on export markets. So it should not be that bad... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Mud, wind and fire.
OnlyforDCS Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I prefer let speak people that have better expertise about that... i will just point that the Mirage 2000 have many times (most of times) advantage over the F-16 in dogfight during exercises... Do you think the Su-27 is in the same category than the F-16 in term of dogfight ? personally, i don't know, but i doubt of that. What were the parameters of that exercise? What missiles were used? What avionics did the planes feature? Do you see where Im going with this, there are too many variables. But a live ammunition fight (or simulation in DCS) is something very different. In a guns only fight I think both the F16A and the M2000C would give the Su27 a run for its money, but are we talking about a guns only fight? Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
WinterH Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) I love that "what place does X have in DCS" stuff, really. I mean, if it won't win 99.99 times out of 100 against everything, why build a module at all, right? Going by this logic, I think everything will have absolutely no place whatsoever in DCS once the Eurofighter is released. Edited November 2, 2015 by WinterH Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script
Erab Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 The same it has in the real world: French Air Force's main air defence asset of the 1980's / 90's. It was designed to intercept Russian bombers, to fight MiG-29 and Su-27, and to compete with F-16 on export markets. So it should not be that bad... Thanks for actually answering my question.
Gliptal Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Repost, since it got buried by the performance discussion.Will the TM Warthog switches be implemented as proper states (like with the A10)? I don't obviously expect a plug and play configuration, since the two HOTAS are not 1:1, but will we have to mess with .lua files?
domini99 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Most of the fights in DCS multiplayer are gonna be close combat. Almost always the jets are lawn mowing through the mountains. I've never had a high altitude BVR fight in multiplayer. I don't know if this is bound to change, but if it does the F14 is gonna get the advantage on the BVR ranges.
sedenion Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 What were the parameters of that exercise? What missiles were used? What avionics did the planes feature? Do you see where Im going with this, there are too many variables. But a live ammunition fight (or simulation in DCS) is something very different. I don't have details about that, we have some feedback about French Mirage 2000 and Belgian F-16, but i'm pretty sure you can find some Red Flag debriefings that doesn't exactly show the M2000 as a "victim" or a "lucky guy", i know this exists, and i know there are more than one example... In a guns only fight I think both the F16A and the M2000C would give the Su27 a run for its money, but are we talking about a guns only fight? We speak about dogfight, yes ? What do you suppose ? The Matra Magic II (Short-range IR) is worst than the AIM-9 or the R-73 ? There some voices saying that the Magic is significantly better than the AIM-9... you will perhaps ask me "What variant of the AIM-9 ?"... i don't know...
GGTharos Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 There are plenty of examples of M2000 being whipped in unscripted dogfights by F-16s. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Moos_tachu Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 After yeeeears of forum disputes over the question, M2000 vs. F-16 dogfight is commonly admitted to be a close match. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Mud, wind and fire.
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