Flying without ABRIS

[Havner]

I had an idea about turning ABRIS off for some flights and was wondering what I might be missing. Meaning. What ABRIS can and cannot do externally.

 

1. I know it has no connection to the nav/autopilot systems. It provides nav info just for information.

2. It is connected somehow with DataLink (selecting and receiving targets). Will DataLink work at all without ABRIS?

3. It seems to be connected to the SHKVAL as it can display a point where SHKVAL is heading. Is it only one side connection?

 

What else is there. Are any other systems connected/dependent on ABRIS?

 

The manual says:

"The reception and display of information from interfaced systems and the output of information to other interfaced systems."

Does anybody has a complete list of those systems?

 

Thanks

[Hunden Ynk]

Since it's a post-update to the Ka-50, it's only able to take input from other systems, just like you describe. But, those systems know nothing about the ABRIS, and it can not send them any output in return - hence, turning it off will not make you loose any functionality except for the ABRIS itself.

[tietze]

2. It is connected somehow with DataLink (selecting and receiving targets). Will DataLink work at all without ABRIS?

 

The ABRIS is able to show information from the weapon control system (WCS), which is the one the PRTz data link control panel is integrated with.

 

The ABRIS is also able to show information from the PVI-800, for example when a target point is selected it is shown on the ABRIS moving map as a square.

 

Further it is possible to create a data link on the coordinates of the target point currently selected on the PVI-800. The PVI-800 and the WCS are connected. This is useful in the following scenario:

• having a custom target point entered into the PVI-800 (received from an A-10C for example)
  
• wanting to send the coordinates easily to another member of your flight through datalink
  

[Havner]

So the manual sentence"

...and the output of information to other interfaced systems

is incorrect? There is no system that can be fed information from ABRIS?

 

About WCS, yes, I think I got it now. You don't need ABRIS to store DL targets. You can store them in PVI.

 

What is the shortest way to do that? The EDIT mode of PVI seems to be able to store only information from either SHKVAL or fly-over a point.

 

I managed to select a DataLink target, select it with SHKVAL and then store it in PVI. Is there some direct way to do that? Without SHKVAL?

 

EDIT: or more general question: How to extract coordinates (or any info) from a DL target other than setting it as ingress?

Edited April 6, 2014 by Havner

[Bushmanni]

Go into INFO mode in ABRIS, scroll the cursor over DL target and press INFO again. It will then show the exact coordinates of the DL point besides some other useful info.

[nickexists]

Further it is possible to create a data link on the coordinates of the target point currently selected on the PVI-800. The PVI-800 and the WCS are connected. This is useful in the following scenario:

• having a custom target point entered into the PVI-800 (received from an A-10C for example)
  
• wanting to send the coordinates easily to another member of your flight through datalink
  

 

 

How would you receive a target from an A-10?

[Havner]

Go into INFO mode in ABRIS, scroll the cursor over DL target and press INFO again. It will then show the exact coordinates of the DL point besides some other useful info.

 

 

My point was (as in this thread) how to do this without ABRIS.

[Raptor9]

How would you receive a target from an A-10?

You can't receive a target from an A-10 via a datalink, only the old-fashioned way: by voice communication. The catch is that you can only enter the coordinate point into the PVI in Lat/Long in Deg.MM.S format (Degrees, minutes, and seconds rounded to the nearest ten seconds). MGRS or Lat/Long in decimal format won't work.

 

Page 6-63, Item 11, 3rd Bullet "Edit waypoint" in the Black Shark manual instructs how to edit a point, or enter a new one, on the PVI keypad. If you enter the coordinates as a Target Point, you can cue the Shkval to the location, and see it on the ABRIS. "OT" should be displayed in the HUD before you uncage the Shkval.

 

Just make sure you deselect any target points on the PVI before storing any datalink points otherwise they'll just be placed on top of the target point's coordinates. However, you can use this as a roundabout and time-consuming method to store a set of coordinates and then store/transmit them using a datalink icon superimposed on top of it.

 

What is the shortest way to do that? The EDIT mode of PVI seems to be able to store only information from either SHKVAL or fly-over a point.

 

I managed to select a DataLink target, select it with SHKVAL and then store it in PVI. Is there some direct way to do that? Without SHKVAL?

 

EDIT: or more general question: How to extract coordinates (or any info) from a DL target other than setting it as ingress?

 

Use the method on the page I described above to enter a set of coordinates without ABRIS, Datalink or Shkval.

 

To answer your original question: since the ABRIS is the only graphical representation of where any Datalink points are located, or which one you've selected for sensor cueing or transmission, using the DL without ABRIS is really pointless. You really can't get much tactical use out of the DL system without it.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Raptor9

[nickexists]

If you select the DL point and select DL ingress, then your nav system will be set to that point and uncaging the shkval with automatically go to it. this is one way you can still use DL without Abris. As far as i know there isn't a way to get a DL points coordinates without Abris.

[Havner]

If you select the DL point and select DL ingress, then your nav system will be set to that point and uncaging the shkval with automatically go to it. this is one way you can still use DL without Abris.

 

Yeah, this one I figured.

 

As far as i know there isn't a way to get a DL points coordinates without Abris.

 

 

Ok, thank you.

[Raptor9]

If you select the DL point and select DL ingress, then your nav system will be set to that point and uncaging the shkval with automatically go to it. this is one way you can still use DL without Abris.

This is true, but is only practical if you have one DL point in the memory. If you have multiple icons of the same type, you will need the ABRIS display to know which icon you have selected.

 

I guess you could try to cycle through them one at a time and see what you get in the display, but that's spending an awful lot of time unmasked cycling through targets, some of which might not be in the same field of view. I'd rather just fly to the FARP, repair, and get a fresh stock of ammo and fuel. But that's just my opinion is all. :)

[tietze]

MGRS or Lat/Long in decimal format won't work.

 

The main system for entering coordinates is the PVI-800 and it only works with lat/long in decimal format. ABRIS is able to work with lat/long in decimal or degrees (by default setup to degrees probably because it is most precise). But precision is not to be expected because it does not take target point elevation into account. Additionally the shkval is positioned some 240m above target, so to acquire target you have to slew the shkval down and be sure not to have any sideslip.

[Raptor9]

The main system for entering coordinates is the PVI-800 and it only works with lat/long in decimal format.

 

I'll check the manual and in-game usage again, but I'm sure this isn't correct. The final digit in the PVI data fields is the first integer of the seconds value in the Lat/Long coordinates. So if it's 32 seconds, "3" would be entered and if it was 37 seconds, "4" would be entered due to rounding.

 

But, I've been wrong before...

[tsumikae]

I'll check the manual and in-game usage again, but I'm sure this isn't correct. The final digit in the PVI data fields is the first integer of the seconds value in the Lat/Long coordinates. So if it's 32 seconds, "3" would be entered and if it was 37 seconds, "4" would be entered due to rounding.

 

But, I've been wrong before...

 

Isn't the final digit supposed to be 1/10 of a minute? Since you can actually go higher than 6.

[ajax]

The final digit entered into the PVI-800 is 1/10 of a minute.

[Raptor9]

Isn't the final digit supposed to be 1/10 of a minute? Since you can actually go higher than 6.

 

The final digit entered into the PVI-800 is 1/10 of a minute.

 

Well, son of a snap, color me retarded...:doh:

[seikdel]

The final digit entered into the PVI-800 is 1/10 of a minute.

I'm looking at the table on page 140 (aka 6-66) and I see decimals listed as the 6th digit, at least in flight mode. Am I misreading this?

[ajax]

Probably not.

 

Latitude uses 5 total digits, longitude uses 6 total digits (plus a zero or one at the beginning of both to indicate positive or negative). The form for latitude is DD MM.M and longitude is DDD MM.M where D = degrees and M = minutes. The last digit in both is 1/10 minute.

 

I suppose it was done this way is because of limited display space and 1/10 of a minute is more precise than 10 seconds (= 1/6 minute).

[ajax]

I suppose there might be confusion when the term 'decimal' is used with no qualifiers.

 

In an earlier post, the statement 'only works in decimal format' is correct but it can be mis-interpreted.

 

Does that mean decimal degrees (D.DDDDD)? Degrees and decimal minutes (DD MM.MM)? Degrees, minutes, and decimal seconds (DD MM SS.SSS)?

 

Lat and long can be expressed in any one of those three ways (not to mention other angular systems, e.g. radians or grads, as well).

Edited April 16, 2014 by ajax