F-4 Phantom Who Wants it Poll

[Hummingbird]

F-4E looks great IMO

 

[MethWolf]

But we already have non carrier aircraft, that's why I don't understand your reasoning :)

 

Also why do they need to "fit" together in this way (carrier capability) ? It's different aircraft after all, and LNS's only aircraft so far is not a carrier aircraft either.

 

So far, we've got: F/A-18, F-14, AV-8, AH-1W, A-6, A-7 planned. Nothing needs to "fit" together, but asymmetric multiplayer (cooperative and competitive) can be a lot of fun- look at the buzz about multicrew alone.

 

Remembering that we don't get to make decisions for leatherneck or anyone else, I think a late-period naval F-4 would be the most fun, and would integrate neatly into online carrier ops.

 

If you don't like flying with other people or landing on boats, I can see how you'd feel otherwise.

[Kev2go]

So far, we've got: F/A-18, F-14, AV-8, AH-1W, A-6, A-7 planned. Nothing needs to "fit" together, but asymmetric multiplayer (cooperative and competitive) can be a lot of fun- look at the buzz about multicrew alone.

 

Remembering that we don't get to make decisions for leatherneck or anyone else, I think a late-period naval F-4 would be the most fun, and would integrate neatly into online carrier ops.

 

If you don't like flying with other people or landing on boats, I can see how you'd feel otherwise.

 

Like most people id rather have internal guns and a more versatile multi role platform; the F-4E phantom and one that would represent many nations outside the US due to the extensive export of this specific model, which would be more important in general for mp, and flying with people.

 

rather than just navy version because " Muh landing on ships" when this void of naval aircraft is going to be filled by the many aforementioned aircraft from your post, and ones that are entirely different model service planes from thier air force counterparts.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Kev2go

[RoflSeal]

And it's historically accurate to shoot at F-4E with other western aircraft, (due to Iran using F-4E)

[Farlander]

Like most people id rather have internal guns and a more versatile multi role platform; the F-4E phantom and one that would represent many nations outside the US due to the extensive export of this specific model, which would be more important in general for mp, and flying with people.

 

rather than just navy version because " Muh landing on ships" when this void of naval aircraft is going to be filled by the many aforementioned aircraft from your post, and ones that are entirely different model service planes from thier air force counterparts.

 

Like most people i would not draw to any assumptions on what most people would like without any proof.

 

Personally i don't see why you can say your interests are more valid than what my opinion is.. Yes personally i'd rather have the ability to land on carriers and do carrier ops with friends in F-14's, F-18's than the ability to carry a gun and be more "multi role". That's my opinion, does not need to be your's.. but i don't need to tell everyone who don't agree with me that their opinion is shittier than mine..

 

I like muh carrier landings.

 

Sorry.

[mattebubben]

personally i think more ppl would buy the F-4E then one of the naval variants.

 

Big reason for that is operators.

 

The US and the UK Operated carrier capable variants.

 

While the US,Germany,Greece,Turkey,Spain,Iran,Israel,South Korea,Egypt,Japan and Australia Operated the F-4E.

 

That makes the F-4E desired by alot of ppl since it gives more ppl the chance to fly an aircraft that had seen service with their airforce.

 

And i think there are more ppl that would want a F-4E for that reason then there are wanting a carrier variant like the F-4J just to be able to do carrier ops.

 

Im not saying that wanting a carrier variant is not a Legitimate opinion but i really believe more ppl would want / be hyped for a F-4E.

 

The best of both worlds would ofc be one of each either at the same time or one followed by the other.

 

But if only one would be made i think the F-4E should be the one as it was the most important F-4 Variant world wide.

[Farlander]

personally i think more ppl would buy the F-4E then one of the naval variants.

 

Big reason for that is operators.

 

The US and the UK Operated carrier capable variants.

 

While the US,Germany,Greece,Turkey,Spain,Iran,Israel,South Korea,Egypt,Japan and Australia Operated the F-4E.

 

That makes the F-4E desired by alot of ppl since it gives more ppl the chance to fly an aircraft that had seen service with their airforce.

 

And i think there are more ppl that would want a F-4E for that reason then there are wanting a carrier variant like the F-4J just to be able to do carrier ops.

 

Im not saying that wanting a carrier variant is not a Legitimate opinion but i really believe more ppl would want / be hyped for a F-4E.

 

The best of both worlds would ofc be one of each either at the same time or one followed by the other.

 

But if only one would be made i think the F-4E should be the one as it was the most important F-4 Variant world wide.

 

No worries, i'd like either.. :P I just don't like it when people insist their vision is more correct than others because of their opinions. Either version will be more than capable tbh...

Edited February 27, 2016 by Farlander

[MethWolf]

No worries, i'd like either.. :P I just don't like people who insist their vision is more correct than others because of their opinions. Either version will be more than capable tbh..

 

Thanks for being mature about this; this is exactly correct. This is all just opinions and wishlisting anyways. Besides, "having a gun" is a void that a lot of other airplanes already fill pretty well.

 

personally i think more ppl would buy the F-4E then one of the naval variants.

 

Big reason for that is operators.

 

The US and the UK Operated carrier capable variants.

 

While the US,Germany,Greece,Turkey,Spain,Iran,Israel,South Korea,Egypt,Japan and Australia Operated the F-4E.

 

That makes the F-4E desired by alot of ppl since it gives more ppl the chance to fly an aircraft that had seen service with their airforce.

 

And i think there are more ppl that would want a F-4E for that reason then there are wanting a carrier variant like the F-4J just to be able to do carrier ops.

 

Im not saying that wanting a carrier variant is not a Legitimate opinion but i really believe more ppl would want / be hyped for a F-4E.

 

The best of both worlds would ofc be one of each either at the same time or one followed by the other.

 

But if only one would be made i think the F-4E should be the one as it was the most important F-4 Variant world wide.

 

"which variant would get more sales" is a question that is better answered with market research and I'm not sure its a real useful point here: LNS isn't going to be picking aircraft based on what forumgoers say will sell best. They also have a number of other factors to consider when picking which aircraft to make, and an F-4 would probably sell well regardless of variant.

 

People will still buy a plane even if it isn't the exact variant that their country got, too- even if you do pick an export variant and most countries actually ordered that variant, the countries in question frequently perform their own modifications. People can and will make liveries and fly as their own country regardless of which variant they actually get; the mig-21 and F-5 are excellent examples.

[Kev2go]

Like most people i would not draw to any assumptions on what most people would like without any proof.

 

Personally i don't see why you can say your interests are more valid than what my opinion is.. Yes personally i'd rather have the ability to land on carriers and do carrier ops with friends in F-14's, F-18's than the ability to carry a gun and be more "multi role". That's my opinion, does not need to be your's.. but i don't need to tell everyone who don't agree with me that their opinion is shittier than mine..

 

I like muh carrier landings.

 

Sorry.

 

 

i never said that at all.

 

 

 

overall reading forums hee i got the impression more would want the F4E, and its understandable.

 

never did i said my opnion is more valid than yours, only explaining why F4E would be from my opinion more desirable than the Navalized F4J.

 

dunno why you are so hostile towards me when Mattebubben pretty much said what i said

[Farlander]

i never said that at all.

 

 

 

overall reading forums hee i got the impression more would want the F4E, and its understandable.

 

never did i said my opnion is more valid than yours, only explaining why F4E would be from my opinion more desirable than the Navalized F4J.

 

dunno why you are so hostile towards me when Mattebubben pretty much said what i said

 

Your opinions sounded rather close to being statements, but sure..

I am sorry if it sounded hostile, not meant to be that way, i really don't care much about what version would be best. Personally i'd take a russian aircraft over anything :P

 

Edit:

Btw.. i responded to mattegubben the way i did becuase he properly states that it is his opinion, and he sees the subject from both sides..

 

Does anyone know if any Navy variants were fitted with maverics?

Edited February 28, 2016 by Farlander

[BSS_Sniper]

personally i think more ppl would buy the F-4E then one of the naval variants.

 

Big reason for that is operators.

 

The US and the UK Operated carrier capable variants.

 

While the US,Germany,Greece,Turkey,Spain,Iran,Israel,South Korea,Egypt,Japan and Australia Operated the F-4E.

 

That makes the F-4E desired by alot of ppl since it gives more ppl the chance to fly an aircraft that had seen service with their airforce.

 

And i think there are more ppl that would want a F-4E for that reason then there are wanting a carrier variant like the F-4J just to be able to do carrier ops.

 

Im not saying that wanting a carrier variant is not a Legitimate opinion but i really believe more ppl would want / be hyped for a F-4E.

 

The best of both worlds would ofc be one of each either at the same time or one followed by the other.

 

But if only one would be made i think the F-4E should be the one as it was the most important F-4 Variant world wide.

 

That is pure speculation and your opinion. I know for a fact there are 30 in my squadron alone that would rather have a naval variant for naval operations. I know that there are other in the works so I am not sure why one module couldn't have two variants. I'd rather have the naval version so that those that wanted to do carrier ops could do so and those that did could just chance the insignia.

[Kev2go]

if there any naval fighter aircraft that i would love to see from the cold war it would be the F8 Crusader.

 

when talking about 3rd generation however if I had to chose a single F4 variant id still want an F4E

Edited February 28, 2016 by Kev2go

[Dudikoff]

Does anyone know if any Navy variants were fitted with maverics?

 

AFAIK, Mavericks required (among some other things probably) an updated radar screen (squared) which could also show the Maverick sensor picture. Since no Navy Phantoms seemed to have had this upgrade, I'd say they were definitely not capable of carrying Mavericks (I don't have the tactical manuals for the exact list of supported ordnance).

 

Since the Phantoms were primarily used for air defense with the A-6's and A-7's performing the strike role, there was little reason to upgrade them for guided weapons, especially with the seemingly limited Navy budgets. IIRC, even the A-6's got various advanced guided weapons (like e.g. LGB's and Harpoons) only very late in their career. Later on, the Navy Phantoms were mostly pushed out of service by the Tomcats (except on the smaller carriers). I guess the Marines would have had more need for the Mavericks in theory, but I'd expect they were even worse budget wise.

[MBot]

Also, the USN/USMC did not introduce Mavericks until around 1990 or so, after the Phantoms left fleet service.

[Rammit]

Bit of an outlier here, but personally I think the E is the best looking of the lot

[Hummingbird]

Don't think you're an outlier Rammit, a lot of people find the E the best looking.

 

So far it also seems like most people would want the E model if LNS ever get around to developing the Phantom. Besides from being the most widely used & most capable Phantom, the E is also the best match for the Bis, so there's every reason to do that one.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Hummingbird

[mkellytx]

If a navy variant a S would be ok (being a late 70s upgrade of the F-4J)

 

For me when it comes to the variant to be modeled i will always vote for the most produced / wide spread variant I.E the most influential variant.

 

And thats what makes me want the F-4E the most of all of the F-4 variants.

 

As and example.

There were 522 F-4Js made with 302 of those converted into the S variant in the late 70s.

 

In comparison over 1300 F-4E with even more if you include F-4E variants like the F and the EJ etc.

 

(the Number of J's can be increased a bit if you add the British variants that where based on the J variant but there were still more then twice as many F-4Es without even including the export variants)

 

Well thought through and definitely the way to go if the aim is to capture the entirety of the Phantom's service life.

 

Now if there were to be a Vietnam map C's and D's are the way to go as they did the bulk of the Mig killing and non-Thud bomb dropping prior to Linebacker. The added bonus is that they weren't too different from the B, so it shouldn't be that difficult to include them as a bundle.

Edited February 28, 2016 by mkellytx

[mattebubben]

Well thought through and definitely the way to go if the aim is to capture the entirety of the Phantom's service life.

 

Now if there were to be a Vietnam map C's and D's are the way to go as they did the bulk of the Mig killing and non-Thud bomb dropping prior to Linebacker. The added bonus is that they weren't too different from the B, so it shouldn't be that difficult to include them as a bundle.

 

Sure but as the only aircraft currently in the work that took part in the Vietnam war is the F-5E i think a Vietnam scenario is a bit far off =P.

[streakeagle]

E's showed up in 68 and were used extensively in Vietnam after that. But more importantly, E's and the very similar F's served forever. If only one F-4 were to ever make it into DCS, it should be the one that served the most globally.

 

As for B's, C's, and D's being so similar as to be practically one module... maybe the B and C, as the C was a minimum change. But even then, do some reading. There are differences, both in external models and cockpits. The D is almost an entirely different animal from a DCS world advanced systems modeling perspective. Also keep in mind that all three letter variants, B, C, and D went through continuous upgrades throughout their service. Addition/replacement of RWRs, ECM, and decoy dispensers varied greatly form the mid 60's to the 80's. In fact, the B changed so much, they eventually called it the N.

 

I am enjoying the beta release of the SimWorks Studios F-4B. The initial beta only covers the earliest production model -- no RWR, minimal air-to-ground capability. This would be a great place to start for DCS World. The absolute simplest variant to model. Success could easily lead to various B/N variants as well as the C.

 

But with the exception of hard core Phantom Phanatics like myself, who want all of the F-4 variants and all of it's opposing MiG-21 variants, are there enough people willing to pay for all this development? A limitation of DCS is that it takes so much effort to make one particular aircraft, that you can't make enough money selling sub variants that will never sell as well as the original release. The sub variant either has to be included in the original release (L-39 style) or has to require so little work to accomplish that the price is so stupidly low that most people who have the first will buy it anyway... perhaps more like an addon requiring purchase of the first version to allow the low price for the variant?

[Kev2go]

F5E's showed up in 68 and were used extensively in Vietnam after that. But more importantly, E's and the very similar F's served forever. If only one F-4 were to ever make it into DCS, it should be the one that served the most globally.

 

As for B's, C's, and D's being so similar as to be practically one module... maybe the B and C, as the C was a minimum change. But even then, do some reading. There are differences, both in external models and cockpits. The D is almost an entirely different animal from a DCS world advanced systems modeling perspective. Also keep in mind that all three letter variants, B, C, and D went through continuous upgrades throughout their service. Addition/replacement of RWRs, ECM, and decoy dispensers varied greatly form the mid 60's to the 80's. In fact, the B changed so much, they eventually called it the N.

 

I am enjoying the beta release of the SimWorks Studios F-4B. The initial beta only covers the earliest production model -- no RWR, minimal air-to-ground capability. This would be a great place to start for DCS World. The absolute simplest variant to model. Success could easily lead to various B/N variants as well as the C.

 

But with the exception of hard core Phantom Phanatics like myself, who want all of the F-4 variants and all of it's opposing MiG-21 variants, are there enough people willing to pay for all this development? A limitation of DCS is that it takes so much effort to make one particular aircraft, that you can't make enough money selling sub variants that will never sell as well as the original release. The sub variant either has to be included in the original release (L-39 style) or has to require so little work to accomplish that the price is so stupidly low that most people who have the first will buy it anyway... perhaps more like an addon requiring purchase of the first version to allow the low price for the variant?

 

 

the F5E are listed as having entered service in 1972, around same time as mig21bis not 1968.

 

but the model we are getting is closer to the lateer part of the 70s because its comes with an upgraded radar, AN-APQ 159 over the standard issue An/APQ 153, and will be fitted with RWR, which F5E initially wasn't

 

so what we are getting is post vietnam.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Kev2go

[jester_]

I learned from this thread that just about every moron playing this game believes that carrier capable aircraft means that it can't land anywhere else that isn't a carrier.

 

Also I love the people saying one Phantom variant looks ugly while they all fly around in arguably the most visually horrific aircraft ever made to the human eye, the warthog.

Edited February 28, 2016 by jester_

[Basher54321]

The US Marines flew a lot of sorties from land bases with their RF-4B and F-4B/J - but not everyone would realise that.

[mattebubben]

I learned from this thread that just about every moron playing this game believes that carrier capable aircraft means that it can't land anywhere else that isn't a carrier.

 

Also I love the people saying one Phantom variant looks ugly while they all fly around in arguably the most visually horrific aircraft ever made to the human eye, the warthog.

 

I dont think anyone is doubting the abillity for the Carrier capable variant to operate from land...

[Basher54321]

the F5E are listed as having entered service in 1972, around same time as mig21bis not 1968.

 

See no reference to F-5s in that post you replied to.

[Kev2go]

See no reference to F-5s in that post you replied to.

 

edited comment first part said F5E.

so i guessit was a type and he just meant the f4e.

 

because now first part just says E.