Mig 21 general usage thread

[Devious]

So I didn't want to make a thread about a poll, or what might or might not become feasible. This is mostly to discuss what missions that are played in multiplayer servers now (including the ground attack only missions) do you guys think the Mig will be added. Also, what mission scenarios do you guys think would make a fun "problem". I for one am interested in using the Bis for the ground attack role ever since I saw a Syrian Mig21 doing a rocket run on an FSA outpost. It made me wonder how accurate those strikes were. Anyways, if you guys are curious about some of the same things (Coordination between A-10C's and Ka-50's, mission objectives) then post em up and lets talk. I am really just looking for something to keep my mind occupied while waiting every moment for that final release day. Hope I didn't waste anyone's time with this and hopefully there will be some interesting ideas come from it.

[MrRogers]

Ground attack would be sweet. Ground attack mixed with having to defend objectives against helos would be awesome.

[streakeagle]

Most fun way to use MiG-21s is the way they were used in Red Flag exercises: to fly at low levels and ambush US teen fighters. First, they would be shocked to see an actual MiG-21 instead of an F-5. Second, they would be shocked to discover that US pilots had learned to fly the MiG-21F-13s well past the limits specified in the flight manual. The only aircraft they feared due to its exceptional turn performance was the F-16. They felt they could beat any other aircraft in a low altitude 1 vs 1 as long as they didn't run out of fuel.

[Devious]

That is very interesting Streak, I didn't know that mig 21's participated in Red Flag. Thanks for the info!

[pepin1234]

Will be interesting test the 21 in low flight attack with a jump. We Need EDGE for that to enjoy the Terrain and tree cover.

[CypherGrunyev]

Low level only really works with terrain cover...

 

You have to remember theres an entire AO, not just two F-15's At angels Twenty. MiG-21's tactics will work for a bit, but then the pilots will learn and counter them, and soon the MiG-21 will spend all of it's days hold up in the mountains scavenging for A-10s...

[WildBillKelsoe]

I like this

[badger66]

Light CAS , and hunting Ka-50s & A-10s . Yeah , Ill pop a missile up yer bum no problem !!!

 

I wouldn't mix it up with the big lads .

[lunaticfringe]

That is very interesting Streak, I didn't know that mig 21's participated in Red Flag. Thanks for the info!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Eagles-Americas-General-Aviation/dp/1846039703

[lunaticfringe]

Here's hoping that's by the time folks get comfortable with the Fishbed, that NTTR will be available...

[159th_Viper]

Here's hoping that's by the time folks get comfortable with the Fishbed, that NTTR will be available...

 

Couple of seconds in burner and you're bound to overfly the map :P

[Vitesse2l]

Not sure where this comes from so a pinch of salt may be required:

 

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/making-best-mig-21-a-10472/

 

Can't wait.

[GGTharos]

Huge pinch of salt.

Start with:

 

Maneuverability of modern fighter is measured by how slow it can fly and how high angle of attack it can sustain and still turn.

 

Bzzzt, wrong. That's a tiny part of the envelope.

 

During some war situations, US evaluation and Aggressor use, MiG-21 has shown it can keep pace with modern planes in this area.

 

Yep, but who fights under those conditions? Sure, you can suck someone into scissors and beat them up. But the MiG-21 can't hang with an F-15 in either sustained combat turn, nor can he hang with an F-15 in an energy fight.

 

So, what's left? Trying to sucker that F-15 into scissors. Great if you manage, but if not, you've got very little going for you.

 

And BTW, for F-15 you can read F-16, MiG-29, Su-27 ... you get the idea.

[GGTharos]

Fix it for you ;)

 

Couple of seconds in burner and you're bound to run out of fuel:P

[Vitesse2l]

It's a very good point GGT, An F15 would always want to play to his advantage and not the '21s. Given the Gulf wars where air superiority was gained very quickly, the Mig isn't going to be in a position where he gets the drop.

[Scrim]

I'll probably set up some different B-52 strikes all over the map, and have GCI vector me to 'em, radar off until I'm close enough. That, and shooting up convoys and what not.

[159th_Viper]

Fix it for you ;)

 

:megalol:

 

Yeah that too :D

[Devious]

All are very good points. Here is another thing I would like your input on. Say it's not just the Mig 21 vs. F-15 situation. Let's say it is a multiplayer coalition flight where there is a Mig 21 and F-15 in one flight and a couple of su-27's on the opposing side. In what ways would you help the Mig 21 pilot if you were in the F-15?

[GGTharos]

Well, that vs situation only came up because some article author really wanted to pretend the MiG-21 is somehow competitive against a more modern fighter. It was quite competitive with its contemporaries.

 

But, to answer your question:

 

The best I can do is try to position the fight in such a way that the MiG-21 can be ahead of the F-15 with the flankers paying attention to the F-15. The best possible scenario IMHO in this case is the MiG-21 sitting in ambush CAP right behind the mountain. The flankers, looking at the F-15, would likely overfly the 21 without noticing it, and it could then give chase. Just make sure to load a useful missile.

 

In the case of point defense, I'd position the 21 carefully and have him suck up enemy missiles while darting in and out of say, SAM cover. Then the F-15 can come off the perch and be less pressured when engaging.

 

In most cases here though, it's hard to have the 21 as anything other than a target drone in a modern environment: Even if it gets the drop on someone, its missiles simply suck, or at least they're supposed to.

 

Think of pitting a vietnam era F-4 vs. an F-15 or Su-27. Not a good deal for the Phantom crew.

[Devious]

Awsome, these are the tactics that I would like to know about. I know that the 1 on 1 situations are going to be really hard to win unless fighting like types. But I fly online quite a bit and try to use TS as much as possible. I do not have FC3 though so I don't know about those aircraft's capabilities. I know I'll probably be going out in support of ground attack or just as extra fighter support but nothing that will give a total air cover screen. So here is another scenario. Given 2 su-25t's loaded for SEAD and 2 Mig-21's for air cover....you are tasked attacking an enemy airfield. How would you set up the aircraft (weapons, fuel tanks, ect.) and what tactics would you use for the highest possible amount of destruction? If these scenarios are starting to bug anyone, let me know and I'll stop. :)

Edited April 25, 2014 by Devious

[GGTharos]

Actually in a defensive scenario I would task the MiG-21's with taking on the attack aircraft while the more modern planes would slug it out for control of the airspace :)

 

If I was attacking an enemy airfield, I'd use the MiG-21's to draw the defenders away - again, we're talking about a situation where the 21 is operating vs modern opponents.

 

If there are no defending planes, I'd have the 21's draw the attention of SAMs, or again, if there are enemy a2g aircraft, attack those so they don't bother your own a2g guys.

 

In this type of scenario, the MiG-21 is all about dashing in, making a mess, and running. Don't stick around, even the Su-25's and A-10's can load better air to air armament than you can. Use your speed to your advantage, and only turn the radar on when necessary.

[Devious]

Would you even consider loading the migs with a 2 g rockets or dumb bombs for a swift in and out attack in the off chance that the 25t's were able to clear a path through the sams?

[Djent33]

In a scenario with AWACS or without the flash of MIG’s radar could disperse friendly SU-25’s from the target area.

[GGTharos]

Yeah you could certainly load'em up for A2G.

 

As for a MiG-21 making Su-25's disperse, that depends. If I know the threat is a MiG-21 I turn my Su-25 at him ... what's he gonna do? I probably have better missiles :)

[26-J39]

what's he gonna do?

 

A split-s from 3000ft :lol: