Question for panel makers - engraving.. how do you do it?

[Devon Custard]

don't get the cheap stuff some things are worth paying for the quality when it works right.

 

Generally true except for when its not. If i can make a $5 purchase work over a $50 purchase its worth trying it out. :)

 

Lotta trial and error in this process. I can almost replicate lasermark quality with standard acrylic and paint if i can just get the right mixture of paints.

[metalnwood]

If it cost you $5 is won't work :)

 

I know the lasermax stuff works, I also know that one by innovative plastics ltd also works well.

 

One that I know doesn't work well is by gravograph after trying it because it was cheaper!

 

While the supplier told me that it was laser able after looking up the specs it says it is for rotary engraving.

 

You you either have some really bad stuff, in which case you cannot do anything about it or you have something that was meant for rotary engraving and not laser engraving. If it says suitable for laser/rotary or just laser then it will work for both. If it says for rotary engraving only then it may engrave well but it will most likely melt when cutting and give you a very messy edge.

 

Thats what I suspect is happening to you given you are working with cheap material.

 

Otherwise, put the power on something reasonable like 50-60% and see how slow you need to go to get a cut. It could be you have too much power while cutting too slowly.

[Deadman]

Ah no its true quality material makes the best product.

 

Yes there is a lot of trial and error in making thing to sell i have a garbage can full of rejected knobs handles and other miscellaneous stuff that i have thrown out over the last three years of making quality replicas.

 

 

Generally true except for when its not. If i can make a $5 purchase work over a $50 purchase its worth trying it out. :)

 

Lotta trial and error in this process. I can almost replicate lasermark quality with standard acrylic and paint if i can just get the right mixture of paints.

[Thick8]

light to medium smoke tracking can be removed with a magic eraser.

[ensamvarg]

Question for panel makers - engraving.. how do you do it?

 

Have you tried without air assist? I find that my engravings turn out better without air but you would of course need it when cutting.

[Devon Custard]

Ok magic eraser and air assist are excellent ideas! And metal i tried the same thing and got much better results but with a slightly diff twist, faster and less power. Went back to the manual and got the recommended settings :doh:

 

Straight from the cutting table, need to file off the edges but its a reasonable cut.

 

 

The problem with the UK suppliers is that only 1 i found supplies lasermax, and branded supplies. All the others supplies "laserable laminate" so you take it on trust. Anyway this is round one with this material :)

Edited May 9, 2014 by Devon Custard

[Devon Custard]

Oh and the other tip i found, turn off bi-directional for engraving

[metalnwood]

Bidirectional depends on the machine. I think I run about 300-350 for speed, 20 for power with bidirectional on and I get good engraving. You will always get better without it on at the sacrifice of speed.

 

if your machine is up to it you can still get good result with it on, I do to the point I don't really bother with it off. I do have my backlash set measured using a dial indicator, this needs to be done to run bidir on.

 

That edge cut looks awful, I would suggest it is the material causing you the issue. It looks a lot like the gravograph I tried that was only marketed for rotary engraving, not laser.

 

Air assist on usually helps for everything but I hook mine up to a large air compressor so I get more air than I would off the small pump that often comes with these things. Still, whatever you have air will improve it all. You must use air for cutting or you risk fire as well as a bad cut.

 

Isopropyl alcohol is excellent to wipe these down after engraving, the dull white engraving will turn bright white after wiping it with a cloth.

[metalnwood]

Also, are you sure that the machine is optically aligned properly and that you have the focal length correct? I.e. the height of the lens to the workpiece is correct?

 

On page one of this thread I have some big res images of the sas panel, you can see the engraving and the edges, which have only been painted, no cleanup done after the cutting, just the isopropyl clean on the engrave.

 

Here is what it looked like on the laser to give you an idea of speeds etc on the material I am using.

 

Edited May 9, 2014 by metalnwood

[bnepethomas]

I'd suggest a couple of layers of solid black acrylic and then the top one, using white acrylic, and then painted black, and then engraved. Challenge with LaserMax is covering up the white on the holes.

 

cheers

Peter

[metalnwood]

Painting the white parts of the lasermax is a lot easier than getting a decent hard and long wearing paint job on top of white acrylic. Also the lasermax or similar does give superior engraving.

[Devon Custard]

Laser envy, your bed is HUGE!!!

 

Im guessing youve got a decent wattage on that beast too :(

 

Am JEALOUS!!!

 

First thing i notice is that you dont seem to get any flare when engraving/cutting.Almost certainly the quality of the material as you and others have pointed out. Will definitely try the ISO alcohol as i have a large can of that at home.

 

The edges i can file/sand down. Either the power setting is wrong or the focus is off coz it ddint cut all the way through and had to snap of the surround hence the crap edge.

 

Really appreciate the input/tips. Keep em coming. Invaluable stuff for those learning as we go.

[metalnwood]

The power on mine is not huge, I do want to cut but I also need to engrave so I went for about the most power I could get away with while still getting good engraving results.

 

I think the tube is ~ 95W. I don't specifically remember the parameters for that cut, around 20mm/s @40% Something like that..

 

 

If it didn't cut all the way though and the edge looks like that then I would check your focus. What if you try and cut something like 3mm mdf? Are there any shadow lines when you cut, like double cut lines? Is the line thats being cut razor thin or wider?

 

if you think your optics are aligned you can put some paper down and activate the laser for a short period of time, raise and lower the bed until you get the smallest hole. Then check that your gauge you use for focusing matches this height.

 

For engraving, you can be in or out of focus by a reasonable amount without necessarily noticing if you are new to it. Cutting on the other hand will suffer more. So the engraving might be good enough to make you think the focus is ok but cutting can be shit.

[TigersharkBAS]

It would be good if we could capture these trick and techniques in the recently announced wiki. Can someone step up?

http://deadfrogstudios.com/warthogpit/index.php?title=Main_Page

[Cali]

I think that looks pretty good.

[bnepethomas]

Painting the white parts of the lasermax is a lot easier than getting a decent hard and long wearing paint job on top of white acrylic. Also the lasermax or similar does give superior engraving.

 

Its the old horses for courses I guess. LaserMax is definitely hard wearing, where I struggled with was finding the paint that gives the perfect match, especially when it somes to square holes for the CMSP and holes for gauges. Still got a sheet of Lasermax out the back, but I'm having more luck with the painting the cutting the top layer, painting it black and then engraving. But whatever works.

 

Do you have a pointer to the matching paint?

 

cheers

 

Peter

[bnepethomas]

The power on mine is not huge, I do want to cut but I also need to engrave so I went for about the most power I could get away with while still getting good engraving results.

 

I think the tube is ~ 95W. I don't specifically remember the parameters for that cut, around 20mm/s @40% Something like that..

 

 

If it didn't cut all the way though and the edge looks like that then I would check your focus. What if you try and cut something like 3mm mdf? Are there any shadow lines when you cut, like double cut lines? Is the line thats being cut razor thin or wider?

 

if you think your optics are aligned you can put some paper down and activate the laser for a short period of time, raise and lower the bed until you get the smallest hole. Then check that your gauge you use for focusing matches this height.

 

For engraving, you can be in or out of focus by a reasonable amount without necessarily noticing if you are new to it. Cutting on the other hand will suffer more. So the engraving might be good enough to make you think the focus is ok but cutting can be shit.

On the money with alignment and focus, if things aren't fully aligned you find all sorts of sadness. I was scratching my head when I couldn't cut through 3 acrylic after 7 runs at 100% power was bearly denting the acrylic. All fixed with correct alignment. For reference - for the 40W tube I do 4 runs at 70% speed 100% power for 3mm acrylic. And has you've noted, there are big differences in the quality of material for cutting, the one from the local hardware store was really noxious, the material from a major plastics supplier was much friendlier.

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[metalnwood]

I did have the paint but I can't find it right now, I buy just samples as they go a long way.

 

The only issue is being in New Zealand we have different brands of paint that won't mean anything to you.

 

Peter, I don't know what 70% speed is as I program mine in mm/s. I would guess that the speed you are using is too fast. You should be able to use a much slower speed, For 3mm, off the top of my head I may go with about 20mm/s and adjust power to suit that speed for a single cut.

 

Acrylic gets a nicer edge cut when gone over slowly. Also, using 100% power on your tube can drastically reduce it's life. Most say for the tubes used in these lasers to keep it 80% and under.

[Devon Custard]

Much better result today.

 

Pumped the text up (maybe a bit too much), bit more power, same speed.

 

Still get better results with the tape mask applied, however the cuts are much better. Again most of the edges need a good sanding down but thats just the tidying up.

 

Virtually no scorch this time and the white is white and not burn brown.

 

[Devon Custard]

Pete, just a thought, why dont you paint the lasermax/laminate first, engrave through and then you can touch up the edges with the same paint. Also that way you protect the lasermax with a layer of paint and potentially a clear hardcoat as well.

 

Im trying that now with the grey paint im using for buttons and engraving the laminate for the top/face of the button.

[bnepethomas]

Pete, just a thought, why dont you paint the lasermax/laminate first, engrave through and then you can touch up the edges with the same paint. Also that way you protect the lasermax with a layer of paint and potentially a clear hardcoat as well.

 

Im trying that now with the grey paint im using for buttons and engraving the laminate for the top/face of the button.

That's pretty much what I do, just with plain old acrylic. we cut the top layer, paint then engrave. Works a treat :)

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1990769&postcount=120

 

I'm using enamel paint, so it is reasonably tough, again it horses for courses, different approaches will work for different builders. With the clear hardcoat, just be a little careful, I did that on a couple of my F16 panels, and now wish I hadn't, the clear coat isn't as clear as what it was after two years.

 

cheers

 

Peter

[Devon Custard]

That's pretty much what I do, just with plain old acrylic. we cut the top layer, paint then engrave. Works a treat :)

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1990769&postcount=120

 

I'm using enamel paint, so it is reasonably tough, again it horses for courses, different approaches will work for different builders. With the clear hardcoat, just be a little careful, I did that on a couple of my F16 panels, and now wish I hadn't, the clear coat isn't as clear as what it was after two years.

 

cheers

 

Peter

 

The clear coat ive got eats certain paints for breakfast, so i use it sparingly and only when i absolutely need to :)

[phil1987]

Hey

 

There are not laser engraved but super easy/cheap to do.

 

make your panel on the pc using paint for example. Print it out. Cut it (I used an exacto knife). Use electrical tape to cover the entire back section of your paper except for the writing, the tape will block 100% of the LED lights Then measure where you want your switches to be, use a hole punch, you have to do this or else the paper will rip later.

 

Put it behind plexiglass (ensure you have drilled the holes in your plexi already).

 

I also made 4 corner holes in my plexiglass to screw the paper to the plexi. The way I have it mounted in my wooden box it works well. The electrical tape will give something for the screws to catch into

 

I know this is not exactly what you are looking for but it works well enough.

[Devon Custard]

Phil, its still a great technique. As im learning, as long as you are happy with the result, how you got there doesnt really matter.

[Devon Custard]

:thumbup:Actually i just remembered a cool technique, which im trying again. I remember doing this in school during arts and crafts but was reminded of this whilst reading Deadmans thread.

 

So for engraved text, cut and engrave the panel. Paint it with the colour you want the engraving to show as in this case white. Fill the engraving with clay/putty whatever. Paint again with the top colour. Let it dry, remove the clay/putty with a tooth pick. Easy peasy. Great tip. Deads got a demo in his thread somewhere. (at least im pretty certain it was Deadman)