DCS needs YOU! ... right?

[Flagrum]

I don't know if this is the right place, but I have an idea ... sort of.

 

Current Situation

We all eagerly await new content. May that be new jets, new helos, new maps, new ground units, well, just new ... stuff! But ED struggles to deliver - due to workload. They have plenty to do to maintain and evolve DCS as platform. Third party devs - generally - struggle to deliver - due to workload and complexity of the tasks. Some DO deliver, and boy, they do a great job. But still ... there are so many others out there with gorgeous and great projects ... and also great time scales ...

 

Then there is the "common folk" that also has produced some pretty awesome stuff. The modders of this comunity are filling quite some gaps with bits and bobs, odds and ends. Scripts that allow mission builders to produce more realistic and more exiting missions. 3D models that add depth and immersion. Liveries, templates and so on and so forth ...

 

I WANT THAT ALL INTEGRATED INTO DCS!

 

and I would pay for it.

 

I bet, a lot of the modders would not even mind if their stuff were integrated into DCS without any compensation. But I would like to see some sort of standardised, official and defined but "easy" process.

 

Elements of this process could be:

 

• different mod categories (i.e. Liveries, Scripts/Scripting extensions, etc.)
  
• community voting for components that shall be incorporated into DCS core
  
• ED oversees the whole process, does an initial filtering of "worthy" mods
  
• "automatic" compensation for modders if their mod is to be integrated
  

 

Regarding "automatic compensation": a easy way to get modders payed for their work. Maybe funded by some sort of kickstarter campaign (i.e. raise 10K USD and ED decides how much of it a modder gets - if he succeeds in the comunity voting). Or ED just pre-selects candidates and the community votes how much compensation it is worth ...

 

This all is not really thought through from start to end by me. But I have a feeling that the community is able and willing to help to make DCS a better product - may that be in terms of actual work or in terms of paying for actual work. Imo all this "just" needs to be organized a bit.

 

What do you think? What other suggestions do you have?

Edited May 9, 2014 by Flagrum

[Sharpe]

how would paying for a mod conflict with the DCS license?

[Flagrum]

how would paying for a mod conflict with the DCS license?

Hrm? I fear, I don't understand you ...

 

My idea, so far: ED is responsible to integrate mods into DCS core. ED pays modders, but not out of their own wallet, but out of a crowd funded one. They "just" do some quality checks before integrating.

 

My intent with that idea is to encourage modders to get their mods out to the public ... in a perhaps more standardized and reliable way.

[Abburo]

There is a slight technical issue regarding centralized modding. If two or more modders will apply changes to the same object which one will prevale?

This issue is actually solved by JGSME and is maintained by every of us is using it. Otherwise, your idea is ok.

 

One think that we can really do is to all have the same version of _MOD folder which might automatically be updated via any freeware cloud drive like dropbox, google drive or whatever. Of course there must be somebody thrustfully who will update that cloud drive. I know for sure that google drive accept a sharing that is pretty handy to be mapped to your local computer.

[Flagrum]

There is a slight technical issue regarding centralized modding. If two or more modders will apply changes to the same object which one will prevale?

This issue is actually solved by JGSME and is maintained by every of us is using it. Otherwise, your idea is ok.

What I have in mind is not a centralized and managed "mod idrectory". Not even JGSME is able to resolve conflicts caused by different mods altering the same files. Yes, it IS agreat tool and warns you and stuff ... but I want MORE!

 

What I want is, that the mods of the community are truly integrated into DCS. Not as (optional) mod, but as part of the standard DCS World install. So, yes, someone (well, ED) has to check before that such mods don't cause any ill effects within DCS World and that they do not conflict with other parts of it. Afterwards those mods are not mods anymore, but part of DCS World.

 

Example Liveries. There are so many out there. Some are ugly, some are great. Why aren't the great ones not part of a standard DCS installation? Technically this should not be an issue at all...

[SkateZilla]

A. Why do you assume everyone is struggling with workload?

B. There are already Posts, that State how to become a 3rd Party Developer.

[Paganus]

One big problem with putting mods from the community into a commercial product is ownership. Modders sometimes borrow assets from other places. Ed would have to vet everything as to its origin which is very difficult. If they did publish something owned by someone else without permission, even if unknowingly, it could be a legal nightmare.

[Flagrum]

A. Why do you assume everyone is struggling with workload?

B. There are already Posts, that State how to become a 3rd Party Developer.

A. because I doubt that they all are just twiddeling their thumbs while the community is waiting for content ...? Hrm, you aren't suggesting otherwise, aren't you!? :o)

Just to be clear, I am not talking about new aircrafts. I am just talking about all the small stuff that still would add so much to the whole DCS experience. Small stuff that the "real devs" certainly must put on the backburner if they ever want to release their prime products.

B. I am not talking about fully fledged 3rd party devs. I am talking about pulling the hobbyists into the boat. An _easy_ way for community members to get their stuff published through official channels. A way for one who made 5 nice liveries - without applying to the 3rd party dev program, without NDA, etc. Just "here it is. If you like it, use it (and I won't mind if I get compensated so I can purchase my significant other a nice weekend at the Spa). Or something like that.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Flagrum

[cichlidfan]

This still creates work for ED, who doesn't have the manpower to spare, along with them having to manage a payment system for work that they 'technically' own in first place.

[Flagrum]

This still creates work for ED, who doesn't have the manpower to spare, along with them having to manage a payment system for work that they 'technically' own in first place.

Yes, of course. But would it not add some value to their product? Probably more value than they would archieve alone on their own with the same man power applied?

 

They already do a lot of stuff that does not directly pay off. And what do they get in return? Complaints from all of us that things aren't evolving fast enough...

 

Perhaps this is one way hone the product AND involve the community AND to produce visible progress.

[shagrat]

Just a simple example about legal problems: Take Tobys texture mod as an example. The textures are made from pictures. Did Toby shoot all pictures used to extract the textures himself? Or if not, did he get written permission by the owners? If these pics are creative commons licensed are they free to use commercially?

 

If any of the above cannot be clarified a use in a commercial product like DCS is a potential risk.

I would like to see a lot of these mods integrated, but apart from scripts, shader.fx tweaks etc. it could be a box of Pandora for ED, unfortunately...

 

As a mod withbnon-commercial background most of these risks still apply, simply the effort to make a legal claim with no revenue generated isn't usually worth it. Still if some copyright holder is pissed off, the modder may get a letter from a lawyer... God, do I hate our stupid system!

[Flagrum]

Just a simple example about legal problems: Take Tobys texture mod as an example. The textures are made from pictures. Did Toby shoot all pictures used to extract the textures himself? Or if not, did he get written permission by the owners? If these pics are creative commons licensed are they free to use commercially?

 

If any of the above cannot be clarified a use in a commercial product like DCS is a potential risk.

I would like to see a lot of these mods integrated, but apart from scripts, shader.fx tweaks etc. it could be a box of Pandora for ED, unfortunately...

 

As a mod withbnon-commercial background most of these risks still apply, simply the effort to make a legal claim with no revenue generated isn't usually worth it. Still if some copyright holder is pissed off, the modder may get a letter from a lawyer... God, do I hate our stupid system!

Then make it a precondition for modders that apply for this procedure that they confirm that they hold the intellectual property of the artwork provided.

I know that this is not an simple issue. But perhaps there are legal ways to prevent or minimize such issues (for ED ... the modders are liable - no matter what - anyways)

[Flagrum]

Btw, I appreciate all the feed back, I really do. But what if we would all try to not point out the shortcommings of my idea or reasons why it would not work (or be difficult to be implemented) ...

 

... but instead focus on how to OVERCOME the apparent problems?

 

... please? :o)