KickStarter Modules..

[gamerbwoi]

Having a look through some of the upcoming Modules for DCS, i noticed something common..

They are taking forever!

Is there no reason, why the developers could not just KickStart the modules?

I mean, lets take the DCS Harrier that was started 2 years ago, and hasnt seen the light of day since (that we know of- due to the current threads).

Why couldnt Razbam (Or any other Developer- This is not a complaint remember..) Go to KickStarter and ask for £150,000 to get 'said' Harrier up and finished by the end of August? With £150,000 im sure you could hire ALOT of developers for 3 months.. Then all they have to do is sell 3750 Modules and they make their money back..

Not only would it show the Developers what we want to see next (by way of putting OUR money where our mouth is). But the Developers get a boost in funds to help them grow bigger as a business, and hire more much needed staff..

P.S This is not a complaint, Im really happy with the idea of having a Harrier. Im sure creating one for DCS is another level of difficult, so keep up the good work Razbam and other Developers..

[joey45]

It takes a long time to do a DCS [level] module.

[gamerbwoi]

It takes a long time to do a DCS [level] module.

 

Yeah i know..

But in retrospect-

Leatherneck have 4 guys.. How many guys could they have with £150,000?

 

I work in construction, I know that if i had to build a high quality designer home with 4 guys it would take about 2 years from start to finish.

If someone told me, that my house was gonna sell for around £780,000 and that they'll give me £150,000 as a down payment to buy it. I know that i could probably hire 10 more people and get it done in near 7-10 months..

 

Do you get me?

 

Im sure that if we (the consumer) wanted these modules nearly as much as we say we do, we could reach in our pockets and put a down payment on them..

 

So why arnt the Developers doing this?

[Silver_Dragon]

RRG Studios and the extinct Beczl Studios (Now LeatherNeck) was make a KS/IG and was successfully. Meanwhile Kinney and your F-35 not was sucerfuly. Not sure if a KS/IG etc can be acelerate the develop of a project (example, RRG Studios was make your KS on 2013 and have a steady progress, but no a alpha o beta status.

 

In other point a single engine WW1 / 2 / Civil ? prop aircraft can by make on 6 mouths / 1 year, but more complex aircraft (multi-prop / multi-crew fighters / Bombers / turboprop) take more time.

 

If review the develop time to a Jet 60s era and after, can take 1-2 or more years on develop time (LN Mig-21Bis develop has near 2 vears). No count the ED develop and implement new features requesting to some add-ons with need add to a Parthned, 3rd party module develop time.

[gamerbwoi]

RRG Studios and the extinct Beczl Studios (Now LeatherNeck) was make a KS/IG and was successfully. Meanwhile Kinney and your F-35 not was sucerfuly. Not sure if a KS/IG etc can be acelerate the develop of a project (example, RRG Studios was make your KS on 2013 and have a steady progress, but no a alpha o beta status.

 

In other point a single engine WW1 / 2 / Civil ? prop aircraft can by make on 6 mouths / 1 year, but more complex aircraft (multi-prop / multi-crew fighters / Bombers / turboprop) take more time.

 

If review the develop time to a Jet 60s era and after, can take 1-2 or more years on develop time (LN Mig-21Bis develop has near 2 vears). No count the ED develop and implement new features requesting to some add-ons with need add to a Parthned, 3rd party module develop time.

 

Are there any sales figure on how many modules have been sold? Wether it be FC3? A10C? or even Ka-50?

[Azrayen]

Ahem... Excuse me guys, but how is this topic a "Community News" thread?

[cichlidfan]

Are there any sales figure on how many modules have been sold? Wether it be FC3? A10C? or even Ka-50?

 

Not public, and coding software is not quite the same as building a house.

[gamerbwoi]

Ahem... Excuse me guys, but how is this topic a "Community News" thread?

 

Im highlighting the subject of Kickstarter with the community, and new information is being learnt.. Community, News.

[gamerbwoi]

Not public, and coding software is not quite the same as building a house.

 

Yes, but surely coding can be broken up and integrated?

 

Im talking about the basics, why couldnt you give a big job to two guys instead of one?

[cichlidfan]

Yes, but surely coding can be broken up and integrated?

 

Im talking about the basics, why couldnt you give a big job to two guys instead of one?

 

To a limited extent, yes, but you will reach that limit sooner than you think.

[Silver_Dragon]

That conversation that good on the chit-chat forum section, no the official community news section.

 

gamerbwoi I think your point as more KS money = more fast develop / short time to release. On DCS: World has no applicable. That no FSX / P3D, etc with you make a fast develop with a standard long time release SDK.

 

In Facs:

- Old Beczl Studion on the Indegogo campaing: 15144$ (but LeatherNeck simulator has no access to that money, monetary losses assumed in honor of the participants of the Indiegogo campaign.

- RRG Studios on KickStarter: 158,897$.

 

Otherwise, RAZBAM and IRIS has not put your main market on DCS: W, your main market has FSX and derivates, expected delays, changes, etc on your promise modules (IRIS put all your modules on standby and RAZBAM has make changes and delays).

 

ED DCS: World has no have yet a stabilized stable platform, on continue evolving and "EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE" (Wags TM :D), require a heavy learning time process to make modules and personal with strong programming aptitudes to make something interesting and strong.

 

The money can help? surely, but that no work as something as planned. The only point actually, has been take patience and wait for news.

[Scrim]

Having a look through some of the upcoming Modules for DCS, i noticed something common..

They are taking forever!

Is there no reason, why the developers could not just KickStart the modules?

I mean, lets take the DCS Harrier that was started 2 years ago, and hasnt seen the light of day since (that we know of- due to the current threads).

Why couldnt Razbam (Or any other Developer- This is not a complaint remember..) Go to KickStarter and ask for £150,000 to get 'said' Harrier up and finished by the end of August? With £150,000 im sure you could hire ALOT of developers for 3 months.. Then all they have to do is sell 3750 Modules and they make their money back..

Not only would it show the Developers what we want to see next (by way of putting OUR money where our mouth is). But the Developers get a boost in funds to help them grow bigger as a business, and hire more much needed staff..

P.S This is not a complaint, Im really happy with the idea of having a Harrier. Im sure creating one for DCS is another level of difficult, so keep up the good work Razbam and other Developers..

 

£150,000 could very well get it finished rather quickly. The problem is that £150,000 is an outrageous sum of money for a DCS module. RRG wanted less than half of that for their entire DCS WW2. Asking for more than twice that for a single module, and Razbam would look even less like a credible 3rd party dev.

[joey45]

If you're gonna devote your full time [as a full time job] in making the module then yes it can help, but most of the teams this is a part time thing, more or less.

 

The games industry is not cheap.

[gamerbwoi]

£150,000 could very well get it finished rather quickly. The problem is that £150,000 is an outrageous sum of money for a DCS module. RRG wanted less than half of that for their entire DCS WW2. Asking for more than twice that for a single module, and Razbam would look even less like a credible 3rd party dev.

 

It was an example, what would you deem a credible amount of money for a DCS Harrier GR9?

[gamerbwoi]

That conversation that good on the chit-chat forum section, no the official community news section.

 

gamerbwoi I think your point as more KS money = more fast develop / short time to release. On DCS: World has no applicable. That no FSX / P3D, etc with you make a fast develop with a standard long time release SDK.

 

In Facs:

- Old Beczl Studion on the Indegogo campaing: 15144$ (but LeatherNeck simulator has no access to that money, monetary losses assumed in honor of the participants of the Indiegogo campaign.

- RRG Studios on KickStarter: 158,897$.

 

Otherwise, RAZBAM and IRIS has not put your main market on DCS: W, your main market has FSX and derivates, expected delays, changes, etc on your promise modules (IRIS put all your modules on standby and RAZBAM has make changes and delays).

 

ED DCS: World has no have yet a stabilized stable platform, on continue evolving and "EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE" (Wags TM :D), require a heavy learning time process to make modules and personal with strong programming aptitudes to make something interesting and strong.

 

The money can help? surely, but that no work as something as planned. The only point actually, has been take patience and wait for news.

 

Lets be realistic for 1 minute

VTOL is capable..

There are 50,000 members on this forum.. If 10% of them people pay upfront for a module, then the DEVS have £200,000..

[cichlidfan]

Lets be realistic for 1 minute

VTOL is capable..

There are 50,000 members on this forum.. If 10% of them people pay upfront for a module, then the DEVS have £200,000..

 

Ten percent of them won't.

 

No offense intended but you should hang around a while and read the forums, then start a thread like this again.

[gamerbwoi]

Ten percent of them won't.

 

No offense intended but you should hang around a while and read the forums, then start a thread like this again.

 

Why? What would i benefit from by doing this?

[cichlidfan]

Why? What would i benefit from by doing this?

 

The answers to most of your questions.

[Silver_Dragon]

gamerbwoi only some questions for you need think before embark on a "future" GR.9 planned develop:

- Have tell you with ED to autorize the develop of a add-on based on the GR.9 and no interference with others teams?

- Have personal (programmers with strong C++ aptitudes, engineers to make AFM, 3D modelling to 3D exterior an interior models, weapons, etc) with experience on DCS: W or similar?.

- Has you a plan to maintain a full time equip and associate cost to reach that project?

- Have documentation (Technical manuals and other wing tunnel documents) over the Harrier GR-9 to make a realistic AFM and associate systems)

- Has military personal or similar with approved the flight, systems, characteristic and others aspect of that module?.

- Has planned other add-ons to get immersion on your project? (include on your "KS campaign")

And the more important point:

- Have you authorization of Bae to make that project? (Remember the legal issues of VEAO and your Bae T.M1 project).

 

You need think over all them.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Silver_Dragon

[Scrim]

Lets be realistic for 1 minute

VTOL is capable..

There are 50,000 members on this forum.. If 10% of them people pay upfront for a module, then the DEVS have £200,000..

 

Won't happen. If that logic was true, I'd like an explanation as to why RRG "only" got $158,897US from 2,553 backers.

 

A reasonable sum to ask for a Harrier module? Let's look at RRG again. If we look at their first goal of $100,000US without taking into account a new map, a number of new features, non flyable aircraft, ground units, ships, etc. they asked for an average of $33,000US for each aircraft they'd make.

 

Considering everything we didn't take into account there, I think we can be generous and say that those things even out the higher complexity of the Harrier compared to WW2 aircraft. Then we have a reasonable sum to ask for in a Kickstarter nailed down to being ~$33,000US, and that's pretty generous.

[Angel101]

Why? What would i benefit from by doing this?

 

Like someone said a long time ago. Do you think that get 9 pregnant womens give you a baby in one month?

[kazereal]

Like someone said a long time ago. Do you think that get 9 pregnant womens give you a baby in one month?

 

Precisely this :)

 

At least some of the developers are working for military contracts and that's where the main funding comes and where most work goes. So even if the consumer-products are not worked on full time there are talented and dedicated people working on these.

 

Also I may be mistaken but RRG has also backing from TFC (in part?) or something like that and Kickstarter was only used to fund the extra testing/extra modules to be finished? (Need to check somewhere..)

 

Edit: quote from Kickstarter-page:

 

The money being raised is only a portion of the development budget. The majority of the programming, some aircraft art, and more, are the costs that the team is funding internally.

 

So the money raised with Kickstarter is just part of the whole thing. Take that into account when referring to that $150000

Edited May 11, 2014 by kazereal

[mwd2]

I am not sure, if Kickstarter is the best option for a SIM community to spend money!

 

I had backed both campaign`s, one had some problem with inter-team-communication and was nearly shut down and the other project has some public communication and other problems. Both projects are have a big delay (take a look into the Kickstarter Campaign page!)!!

 

I am happy, that the community make both possible - but i don`t think you will get the money together for a third project, until one or better both projects are released this year.

[silverofx441]

Like someone said a long time ago. Do you think that get 9 pregnant womens give you a baby in one month?

 

:megalol:That's got to be the best answer ever:thumbup:

[Cobra847]

Money is a very important factor in FS Development.

It allows you to expand your team, hire contractors for artwork, license middleware; but more importantly: not freak out when your next rent is due.

 

However, it is not everything. Project management skills, knowledge of the DCS engine, knowledge of the aircraft and its' systems is not quite something that money will immediately facilitate.

Additionally, kickstarters are seen as a less professional option for established companies (some silly stigma attached), which can also be a drawback.

 

So to really answer your question?

There are pros and cons, and it's not an end-all solution.

 

It's a good one a lot of the time, but has to be planned properly, with clearly defined goals and rewards but with realistic expectations.