KA50 Target Designator "a bad JOKE"

[LFCChameleon_Silk]

umm ShuRugal, vikhrs outdistance ANYTHING a T-90 has, and i routinely kill things without ever being shot at online or offline so not really sure what you mean by easy prey... any fighter who spots you and worth a damn is gonna kill you since you literally have nothing to fight back with.

 

staying out of weapon engagement envelopes when flying is always the way, be it in a su-25 or a ka50, they can't shoot you unless you give them a shot.

 

I'll be the first to say that hotdogs flying ka50 5 feet off the ground in videos without APs on and using cannon on manpads who shoot 15 missiles and miss by 2 inches looks really rad, but besides killing a couple men and smacking the bottom of the helo off the ground about all they accomplished was some bad "pro" flying that got them killled in a fireball from a bad situation turned worse by absolutely no understanding of threat envelopes...no survivability with their tactics despite how "good" they think they can handle the helo.

 

FYI 8.5km stationary shots are money in the bank -- not even radar sams have a chance since i can use the vertical space to hide behind a hill if it does happen to fire at me, hows a T-90's svir ATGM gonna hit me past 5km.... Then again maybe i fly the helo different then everyone else but i have easily the best K/D ratio while flying it since its virtually untouchable from anything except aircraft.

 

sure if your 4.5km from a T-90 you might want to launch the vikhr on the run, but then again you probably shouldn't be worrying about shooting it so much as you are about getting out of dodge.

Edited June 27, 2014 by =LFC=Chameleon_Silk

[ShuRugal]

umm ShuRugal, vikhrs outdistance ANYTHING a T-90 has, and i routinely kill things without ever being shot at online or offline so not really sure what you mean by easy prey... any fighter who spots you and worth a damn is gonna kill you since you literally have nothing to fight back with.

 

staying out of weapon engagement envelopes when flying is always the way, be it in a su-25 or a ka50, they can't shoot you unless you give them a shot.

 

FYI 8.5km stationary shots are money in the bank -- not even radar sams have a chance since i can use the vertical space to hide behind a hill if it does happen to fire at me, hows a T-90's svir ATGM gonna hit me past 5km.... Then again maybe i fly the helo different then everyone else but i have easily the best K/D ratio while flying it since its virtually untouchable from anything except aircraft.

 

sure if your 4.5km from a T-90 you might want to launch the vikhr on the run, but then again you probably shouldn't be worrying about shooting it so much as you are about getting out of dodge.

 

I have definitely been shot in the face by T-90s in the 8-9km range. I don't know what conditions make them take the shot that far, but I've had it happen frequently enough that if there are T-90s in the area, I don't slow down and I don't give them a closing target until I'm ready to shoot.

 

 

I'll be the first to say that hotdogs flying ka50 5 feet off the ground in videos without APs on and using cannon on manpads who shoot 15 missiles and miss by 2 inches looks really rad, but besides killing a couple men and smacking the bottom of the helo off the ground about all they accomplished was some bad "pro" flying that got them killled in a fireball from a bad situation turned worse by absolutely no understanding of threat envelopes...no survivability with their tactics despite how "good" they think they can handle the helo.

 

who said anything about any hot-dogging? No one here is advocating your hollywood manpad takedown. Or were you looking for a fight with that one?? :huh:

[Flagrum]

I have definitely been shot in the face by T-90s in the 8-9km range. I don't know what conditions make them take the shot that far, but I've had it happen frequently enough that if there are T-90s in the area, I don't slow down and I don't give them a closing target until I'm ready to shoot.

 

 

 

 

who said anything about any hot-dogging? No one here is advocating your hollywood manpad takedown. Or were you looking for a fight with that one?? :huh:

8-9 km is .... a lot! Are you really sure about this? If so, I would consider this as a bug. Effective max range of modern tank guns is 4000-5000 meters and this will be not too different for a T-90.

[ShuRugal]

8-9 km is .... a lot! Are you really sure about this? If so, I would consider this as a bug. Effective max range of modern tank guns is 4000-5000 meters and this will be not too different for a T-90.

 

I was definitely shot by something, and there was nothing in between me and the tanks i was looking at but empty grass. I know for a fact i've eaten Refleks from outside 6k, as well.

[Isegrim]

I was definitely shot by something, and there was nothing in between me and the tanks i was looking at but empty grass. I know for a fact i've eaten Refleks from outside 6k, as well.

 

 

In SP or MP ? - in MP its maybe been somebody in a CA slot.

I had this also once or twice.

 

There are uge differences in weapons range on AI or Client in CA...as example with SA-19 the AI maximum shot range is 8 km, if you settle yourself inside you can go 10+

 

About that vikhrs Proplem:

 

It seems to me that the Automatic mode is Broken or lets say ...not working as it should. You shouldnt be able to launch a ATGM with a sidespeed of 56 km/h in A-mode, the maximum should be 50 ?! or maybe 30 km/h....( look into your abriss there is shown right below the map at the left side how fast you are via GLONASS(GPS).

But you can launch..and im not sure it should be like that..and than it looks for me that the ATGM is missleaded out of the beamride (like forced by the programm) this really looked strange.

Wind cant be the proplem Manual mode worked 100%

Edited June 28, 2014 by Isegrim

[LFCChameleon_Silk]

there is no way you died from something at that range and the only thing that could have engaged you would be something radar guided (if really at that range) you probably got killed by something in underneath you that you just didn't see.

 

I know my threat envelopes... just ask youself this, when a hellfire is fired from an apache, do they do it on the move? do they do it while a T-90 fires back at them... no of course not because the weapon system is designed to kill from outside their envelope and the Vikhr is no different in that regard. apples and oranges i suppose though since they are vastly different AT weapons... but you guys kinda disappoint me by not taking a basic rule into account that you should only enter threat range as last ditch effort -- i'm afraid many will read that as that they should be flying 4km running in blasting Vikhrs but i think that is an absolutely fool hardy strategy. I mean this is basic ground attack theory and to suggest otherwise undermines intelligent conversation.

 

Why do people assume something without testing for themselves, on editor excellent T-90 AI threat envelop is 5km exactly now watch what happens when i enter 5km in this video.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/land_force/c/4553581

 

so I will hear no more of a T-90 shooting at over 5km, its just a downed pilots memoir.

Edited June 28, 2014 by =LFC=Chameleon_Silk

[Isegrim]

 

I know my threat envelopes... just ask youself this, when a hellfire is fired from an apache, do they do it on the move? do they do it while a T-90 fires back at them... no of course not because the weapon system is designed to kill from outside their envelope and the Vikhr is no different in that regard.

 

Thats situation-dependent as always, so never say never.

[LFCChameleon_Silk]

yes but if you had a choice bro, would you shoot at outside their range or enter their range to be shot down? at this point there is far to many chefs in the kitchen trying to explain how to make the best dish in the world, come right down to it do what keeps you alive and flying -- but i can honestly say that if your flying into envelopes that is surely not gonna increase your survivability.

 

and ShuRugal, I will straight out just say your wrong, you got killed by something you didn't see... its nothing personal and I don't wish you to be upset with me over saying your wrong outright but every ME test i could throw up would prove otherwise.

 

@ Isegrim, sometimes bad situation becomes worse and you make a bad judgement call and your in hot water... however that rule of never entering envelopes unless you have to still rings true, if your to close to unseen threat you have messed up and broken a cardinal rule, if you do happen to enter an envelope the wise decision is to minimize your exposure (of course)

 

anyways getting sidetracked from real discussion, my bad.

Edited June 28, 2014 by =LFC=Chameleon_Silk

[Isegrim]

yes but if you had a choice bro, would you shoot at outside their range or enter their range to be shot down? at this point there is far to many chefs in the kitchen trying to explain how to make the best dish in the world, come right down to it do what keeps you alive and flying -- but i can honestly say that if your flying into envelopes that is surely not gonna increase your survivability.

 

and ShuRugal, I will straight out just say your wrong, you got killed by something you didn't see... its nothing personal and I don't wish you to be upset with me over saying your wrong outright but every ME test i could throw up would prove otherwise.

 

@ Isegrim, sometimes bad situation becomes worse and you make a bad judgement call and your in hot water... however that rule of never entering envelopes unless you have to still rings true, if your to close to unseen threat you have messed up and broken a cardinal rule, if you do happen to enter an envelope the wise decision is to minimize your exposure (of course)

 

anyways getting sidetracked from real discussion, my bad.

 

:D just like said.

 

But now Back to topic:book:

 

In Automatic firing mode the beamride reticle jumps from side to side (where the next active Vikhr is) but for me it doesnt do this in manual mode and stays centered.

Now the strange point...is it possible that if the A-mode is used the missile misses the beamride even more early or often (cause its not well aligned with the HUD).

I have 0 Proplems with the manual mode, and can launch the vikhrs into the Beamride up to 70km/h in sidewaymovement(which is tricky and ...nahhh i think you know what i mean ;) )

 

But if once in the Beamride its nearly impossible that it will lose track also in Windy wheather(4m/s).

The only thing what happens than that it will close miss the target when its further than 7 km away(depends of the size of the target).

Edited June 28, 2014 by Isegrim

[Bains]

OK, so I was just about to start investing time into the BS2 and I came across this thread. It's kind of putting me off. Are the issues really that bad?

[Isegrim]

Just try ...some have proplems with that but not all.

[karambiatos]

its a love-hate relationship

[msalama]

Are the issues really that bad?

 

IIRC none of the bugs mentioned here have ever affected my operating the bird in the slightest. But I'm not fying actively ATM, so no clue about the current situation...

[kefuddle]

OK, so I was just about to start investing time into the BS2 and I came across this thread. It's kind of putting me off. Are the issues really that bad?

I bought BS2 during the recent sales, put lots of time into it. Haven't even noticed anything (except the trimmer - see below) that stands out as a bug that in anyway impacts gameplay. Some of the systems don't operate as smoothly or as well as one would like, but as a real world pilot I can say that systems generally don't in reality and one just adapts.

 

Regarding the trimmer, with central mode selected one has to be very careful to release the trim and the stick at the same time or there is a possibility of a lock up, then release pressure on the stick and trim again and it should be free, if not reset the trim and stick usually then needs to be full forward to recover. This just takes some time to get the hang of.

 

But playable? Oh yes! It is actually quite and incredible piece of software and I can't believe I left it on the shelf for so long :thumbup:

[Bains]

I bought BS2 during the recent sales, put lots of time into it. Haven't even noticed anything (except the trimmer - see below) that stands out as a bug that in anyway impacts gameplay. Some of the systems don't operate as smoothly or as well as one would like, but as a real world pilot I can say that systems generally don't in reality and one just adapts.

 

Regarding the trimmer, with central mode selected one has to be very careful to release the trim and the stick at the same time or there is a possibility of a lock up, then release pressure on the stick and trim again and it should be free, if not reset the trim and stick usually then needs to be full forward to recover. This just takes some time to get the hang of.

 

But playable? Oh yes! It is actually quite and incredible piece of software and I can't believe I left it on the shelf for so long :thumbup:

 

Thanks! and thank you for your guidance on the trim. I can see it's quite a bugbear for some. Did you ever encounter a youtube video you would recommend that covers dealing with this particular issue? I find the combination of video and commentary to be much the best learned aid.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Bains

[Home Fries]

Regarding trim, if you guys use a Cougar or Warthog you can use the routine that I wrote earlier in this thread. Better yet, if you have a Cougar with MFDs just look at the TARGET profile in my signature which has this trimmer in the latest version.

 

My trimmer takes the advantages of the original trimmer and the central position trimmer and minimizes their disadvantages (spiking and loss of stick control until centered, respectively). Bottom line is that you can make a major trim change without any spiking by using the built in trimmer function (which trims the stick to center in TARGET upon trim switch release), and you can also re-center the stick without spiking (and without losing input control) by actively holding down a button while moving the stick to center.

[Bains]

Regarding trim, if you guys use a Cougar or Warthog you can use the routine that I wrote earlier in this thread. Better yet, if you have a Cougar with MFDs just look at the TARGET profile in my signature which has this trimmer in the latest version.

 

My trimmer takes the advantages of the original trimmer and the central position trimmer and minimizes their disadvantages (spiking and loss of stick control until centered, respectively). Bottom line is that you can make a major trim change without any spiking by using the built in trimmer function (which trims the stick to center in TARGET upon trim switch release), and you can also re-center the stick without spiking (and without losing input control) by actively holding down a button while moving the stick to center.

 

Damn! I use an x52 pro.

[kefuddle]

Thanks! and thank you for your guidance on the trim. I can see it's quite a bugbear for some. Did you ever encounter a youtube video you would recommend that covers dealing with this particular issue? I find the combination of video and commentary to be much the best learned aid.

 

Try this one from Froogle's great channel:

 

With the X52, can you program a button to hold a keypress until released? That is fundamentally what you need for the standard trim setup. So whilst finessing your manouevering, hold the trimmer button down, hold the desired attitude and then release the button. When you release the button simultaneously relax your grip and let the joystick re-centre.

Edited July 5, 2014 by kefuddle

[kefuddle]

Regarding trim, if you guys use a Cougar or Warthog you can use the routine that I wrote earlier in this thread. Better yet, if you have a Cougar with MFDs just look at the TARGET profile in my signature which has this trimmer in the latest version.

 

My trimmer takes the advantages of the original trimmer and the central position trimmer and minimizes their disadvantages (spiking and loss of stick control until centered, respectively). Bottom line is that you can make a major trim change without any spiking by using the built in trimmer function (which trims the stick to center in TARGET upon trim switch release), and you can also re-center the stick without spiking (and without losing input control) by actively holding down a button while moving the stick to center.

 

Thanks Home Fries,

 

What a clever idea! I studied your code which just got me into looking into the Target scripts, which I previously couldn't be arsed with. Many many thanks for that motivation.

 

I spent the best part of a day playing with a couple of other possible ways to do what you have done. What do you think?

 

Method - Automatically recentre the joystick:

MapKey(&Joystick,  H1U,  CHAIN(EXEC("ActKey(PULSE+KEYON+'t');ActKey(KEYON+DXHATUP);"),REXEC(2,1,"TrimDXAxis(DX_X_AXIS,  SET(-Joystick[JOYX]/32));TrimDXAxis(DX_Y_AXIS,  SET(-Joystick[JOYY]/32));")));
MapKeyR(&Joystick,  H1U, EXEC("StopAutoRepeat(2);ActKey(DXHATUP);TrimDXAxis(DX_X_AXIS,  SET(0));TrimDXAxis(DX_Y_AXIS, SET(0));"));

Method 2 - Disabling the axis until centre:

MapKey(&Joystick, H1U, EXEC("TrimDXAxis(DX_X_AXIS, SET(-Joystick[JOYX]/32));LockAxis(&Joystick,JOYX,1);TrimDXAxis(DX_Y_AXIS, SET(-Joystick[JOYY]/32));LockAxis(&Joystick,JOYY,1);"));
MapKeyR(&Joystick, H1U, EXEC("LockAxis(&Joystick,JOYX,0);TrimDXAxis(DX_X_AXIS, CURRENT);LockAxis(&Joystick,JOYY,0);TrimDXAxis(DX_Y_AXIS, CURRENT);"));

Having said all that, I tried disabling the Center Trim option (which also prevents lock ups) and I think it is actually OK and better than when enabled once accustomed to it.

Edited July 5, 2014 by kefuddle

[DieHard]

Shkval Wiper Blade

 

It ground stabilizes just fine for me, I hit the Lock Target button on my HOTAS and it holds its place on the ground even when I have nothing targetted. I haven't really experienced any problems with the Shkval or noticed any of the behavior the OP mentioned. This supposedly only occures in the rain? I've only had BS2 for a week and haven't got more than 10 hours of flying time, so I'm not sure. But maybe it's intentionally modelled that way? I noticed there is a windshield wiper button for the Shkval which is clickable, that might help.

 

+1

 

The Ka-50's wiper actually works from outside, nose-on view, but the wiper action wiping across the shkval lens is not seen from inside the cockpit watching the shkval monitor screen, which is rather interesting. I see my car's windshield wiper blades streak across my windshield when they are wiping. Is this modeled correctly? Or is it just eye candy?

 

I was doing a Ka-50 forum search concerning the "Shkval wiper blade" and found this dated older thread. Looking to see if the Shkval's wiper blade has been discussed.

 

Concerning the thread: I fly the Ka-50 most of the time. Why are some of you guys having problems? I do just fine, still, since Black Shark 1.

 

I get into rather unique, interesting, random issues from combat fire of various kinds. This aircraft is a study in itself. Then figure out how to rtb to get repaired, rearm, refuel, and back out again with the originally issued aircraft. Best I have done is 5 times rtb out and back with the same aircraft.

 

There are good combat creations on various MP servers: 159th, 104th, the old 74th, the old 77th and hopefully devilman's new maddog, and others; got to go looking around to see what other people are doing.

Edited September 25, 2015 by DieHard

[Reaper6]

The wiper blade for the Shkval is modeled. But not as your windshield wiper does, the Shkval wiper only makes one pass. So if you go external view and press the wiper button, you will notice that it does actually work.

 

Reaper6

[Kamov Akula]

KA-50 is my FIRST and only REAL love and if it fails....

 

or continues to be ignored I will abandon DCS altogether.

 

I'm glad there are other people who are actual Black Shark fans and are speaking out to get this module worked on.

 

Do you hear me ED? You will not get any more of my business until you pay a little more attention to the Black Shark!:mad:

[martinistripes]

or continues to be ignored I will abandon DCS altogether.

 

I'm glad there are other people who are actual Black Shark fans and are speaking out to get this module worked on.

 

Do you hear me ED? You will not get any more of my business until you pay a little more attention to the Black Shark!:mad:

 

Welcome to the forums Kamov Akula. Not sure how old you are or which part of the world you're from, but that's not how we post around here.

[Reaper6]

or continues to be ignored I will abandon DCS altogether.

 

I'm glad there are other people who are actual Black Shark fans and are speaking out to get this module worked on.

 

Do you hear me ED? You will not get any more of my business until you pay a little more attention to the Black Shark!:mad:

 

What part of the BlackShark needs attention? Apart from some of the small things that aren't really modeled during a full start-up and test procedures, everything seems to be 100% to me.

 

Reaper6

[dimitriov]

Currently the main issue for me is the telemetry often getting crazy in mountains (or when you're fluing low, or by night... Or by fog... Well...). You know, you illuminate your target, you've got for example 3.5 km, wait few seconds, it then indicates you 2.5 km.

 

Using Vikhr, it's not a real issue, but using canon on a 130km/h pass, it's very annoying, cause you have to illuminate again, and if you do it too often, your laser will burn...

 

So with the experience, it has become an entire part of the gameplay for me (and I think for many people, surely like you Reaper, or you Die Hard), but I don't think it's normal.

 

But sometimes, it gets worse, by coming from 7 km to 0 (or 99.9, my favorite one ;) ), and so the shkval goes crazy... (And of course, it'll happen to you when you're in an emergency situation and have to fire fast :p )

 

I just wonder if it's a kamov issue, or a terrain one... But getting it fixed would really be nice. When people say "Kamov is entirely buggy", no, it's not. It's old, its cockpit and external model are becoming ugly when you compare them to the most recent modules... But it's perfectly playable, and a real pleasure on PVP servers (gnihihih).

 

Except this, there are some bugs, perhaps minor ones, but they are there for many monthes/years, so I understand people getting angry (nope I won't make a list, not enough time and energy).

 

For the wiper, someone once told me that on an old version of BS (perhaps BS1), it was possible to see it in your shkval... True ? Anyway it's kinda a just for fun feature as long as rain isn't modeled on glasses. I didn't even know there was a switch for it before he talked to me about it, and it was after having flown it for 3 years ^^

 

For the Ogreman post, currently it makes sense for me (didn't read this 23 pages conversation, so perhaps you demonstrated that it's entirely wrong...). What I don't understand is : Why to align the circle on the target is supposed to be so important as long as in duo-fire missile, the circle is in the center and you don't have to do it. I mean, it's a little strange no ? So I know that Soviet engineers are known for their vodka consumption but...

 

Nicolas

Edited October 10, 2015 by dimitriov