Bug Reports / Testing Process / Updates?

[NineLine]

Disclaimer: The following is just my opinion and I will only say it once then shut up.:)

 

How can this bug even remotely compare in importance to fixing the problem where the Ka-50's Doppler or HUD systems cannot be repaired, a bug introduced in one of the Black Shark 2 updates--over two years ago?

 

I dont know about those bugs, but those two you listed sure sound a heck of a lot more complex than an animation fix...

[Flagrum]

I dont know about those bugs, but those two you listed sure sound a heck of a lot more complex than an animation fix...

Could be a "quick win" fix. Shows that ED is actually doing something and it did not cost much.

 

Tbh, I would even suggest that ED would not solely schedule their bug backlog by bug priority. What about one big cleanup of all that "smallshit"? After EDGE, one patch only for all the small stuff that piled up during the years.

 

Hrm, yes, maybe they do it already anyways. There were already every now and then small fixes nobody really bothered with anymore ... :o) But I think, one big clean up would make quite some impression on everyone, though.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Flagrum

[Wolf Rider]

Bug Tracker access to view would only cause upsets and relentless posts of "why is my bug way down the list", or "why are working on that one, when others are much more important" etc, etc... it would be a spot fire constantly trying to morph into an inferno.

[Flagrum]

Bug Tracker access to view would only cause upsets and relentless posts of "why is my bug way down the list", or "why are working on that one, when others are much more important" etc, etc... it would be a spot fire constantly trying to morph into an inferno.

But the underlying issue exists today already as well - it is just the "out of sight - out of mind" factor that is different. Imo not a really sound strategy. But both sides' arguments were chewed over and over already in the first 140 postings of this thread ...

[Wolf Rider]

Sorry, but I wasn't present for the first 152, as they were posted :) ... so I'm having my say now :D

 

Don't get me wrong though... its good to have the interest and the enthusiasm (I know I do) for what is going on, what's happening, and what the Developers are doing, I think that's great but some things really are just best left to "it will be done when its done" so to speak.

Its good to know (and we don't need constant confirmation), that the machinery is churning away in the background, and the end product rolls out, when it rolls out

Edited May 28, 2014 by Wolf Rider

[winz]

Could be a "quick win" fix. Shows that ED is actually doing something and it did not cost much.

Or it will spark "Why is ED focusing on non-game breaking issues, when there are AI units pilling up on bridges" posts.

Just saying...

[howie87]

The problem with DCS is that I can't ever see it being 'feature complete'.

 

The price we pay for constant updates/modules/a new graphics engine is the constant introduction of new bugs and a lack of dedicated manpower to fix them.

 

I guess it's a fair trade. Maybe one day everything will just work but I think that day is a long way off still.

[Flagrum]

The problem with DCS is that I can't ever see it being 'feature complete'.

 

The price we pay for constant updates/modules/a new graphics engine is the constant introduction of new bugs and a lack of dedicated manpower to fix them.

 

I guess it's a fair trade. Maybe one day everything will just work but I think that day is a long way off still.

That is actually a very good point ...

[159th_Viper]

That is actually a very good point ...

 

Yes, mentioned in post #13. Rather than heed the post, everyone shot for inducing carpal-tunnel in the shortest possible time-frame........typical :megalol: :D

[Flagrum]

Yes, mentioned in post #13. Rather than heed the post, everyone shot for inducing carpal-tunnel in the shortest possible time-frame........typical :megalol: :D

Well, it is not directly supporting the "open bugtracker" idea, nor is it supporting the other side. While things might be calming down a bit after EDGE is integrated, we all still should always keep in mind, that our beloved DCS World never will be "finished" and probably never really become as stable as perhaps any other software of similar age.

 

You can build a house, renovate and refurbish it every couple of years. After 15 or 20 years, you need a new roof, you add a garage, etc. All nice.

 

But ED startet with a multi storey building, renewed the complete facade, built a new cellar and placed the whole building onto it, added another 10 storeys and is about to remove the timber framing in the core to replace it with steel beams now.

 

And we complain about the noise and some dust then and when? :o)

[159th_Viper]

And we complain about the noise and some dust then and when? :o)

 

Yeah these 'complaint/proposal' threads with the very same content flourish on a yearly/2-yearly cycle or thereabouts - regular as clockwork. Outcome seldom changes though - it's just participation that varies (new faces etc etc).

 

As they say, if you want to predict the future all you need to do is look to the past.

[howie87]

Yeah, that's my point really. I don't necessarily agree with the way that ED do everything but DCS is the only multi-era combat sim out there that models aircraft in a way that's anywhere near realistic.

 

For what it's worth though, I think an open bug tracker would cause more problems than it would solve.

 

Just accept that some annoying bugs will be here for a long time to come or roll back to an earlier build where those things worked but new features are missing and other bugs still remain.

 

There isn't a perfect solution. If ED just concentrated on fixing bugs there would be no new content and for ages and a ton of people would be complaining about that instead.

 

We'll probably have a half broken DCS for the next few years at least but I tell you what... There will be some damn cool half broken stuff in it.

[Flagrum]

Yeah these 'complaint/proposal' threads with the very same content flourish on a yearly/2-yearly cycle or thereabouts - regular as clockwork. Outcome seldom changes though - it's just participation that varies (new faces etc etc).

 

As they say, if you want to predict the future all you need to do is look to the past.

I think, you still misunderstood me. I still find it legit to try to find ways to improve the bug reporting process and I still stand to my opinion that opening the bugtracker for read access would be a good idea. That is not what I meant with "complaining".

 

But what I am trying to say is, we really should cut ED some slack when it comes to actual and specific bugs and the time it sometimes need to get them fixed. It is really just the old argument "they are just a small company" from a slightly different perspective.

 

But again, a bit more transparency would immensely help to understand and to put things into that or similar perspectives. Imo. :o)

[ShuRugal]

I dont know about those bugs, but those two you listed sure sound a heck of a lot more complex than an animation fix...

 

this is exactly the reason the current system is not good enough. How does the testing team not know about bugs which have been ongoing problems for two full years, reported by many players on the forums and the tracker?

 

there is even a threaddedicated to tracking issues with the KA-50 which has been open this entire time, updated on a regular enough enough basis to remain on the front page of the bug subforum, even though it is not sticky (even though it should be). Are you also unaware of this? How many of the bugs in that thread are you, individually or collectively, unaware of?

 

This is why the system is not good enough. This is why we ask for a more transparent system. I, personally, had assumed that these bugs were getting attention (they've been reported enough), but were either simply difficult to crack or low on the priority list. To find out that, after two years, a prominent member of the testing team and a very active go-between between the community and the devs has no idea these problems exist.... need i say more?

[NineLine]

this is exactly the reason the current system is not good enough. How does the testing team not know about bugs which have been ongoing problems for two full years, reported by many players on the forums and the tracker?

 

You are right, every tester should know detailed information on every bug in the game.

 

This is the exact reason why an open bug tracker wouldnt work, because people already have an unrealistic expectation of the tester team, devs etc... seeing a bunch of bugs out in the open, and their favorite one not being worked on would cause peoples hair to catch on fire....

 

I will also add that a Tester is here to test current release and internal builds and report problems. It is not our job to track bugs, although we all take personal interest in bugs we have reported and others. We do also test the fixes as the come along. We dont know what the devs work on, that isnt our job, we can only report these things. We do get assigned tasks that have us track progress more, but still we dont know priorities and such of the devs, and yes, really, everything IS subject to change. So before you slam any more testers try and understand what we are assigned to do. It's not my job to know every aspect of every bug/module in the sim.

Edited May 28, 2014 by NineLine

[ShuRugal]

I will also add that a Tester is here to test current release and internal builds and report problems. It is not our job to track bugs, although we all take personal interest in bugs we have reported and others. We do also test the fixes as the come along. We dont know what the devs work on, that isnt our job, we can only report these things. We do get assigned tasks that have us track progress more, but still we dont know priorities and such of the devs, and yes, really, everything IS subject to change. So before you slam any more testers try and understand what we are assigned to do. It's not my job to know every aspect of every bug/module in the sim.

 

Forgive me, then. I was under the impression (based only on my own observation of what gets posted here, of course) that one of the functions of the volunteer testing team was to operate as go-betweens for the purpose of collecting/replicating bug reports posted here. If my observations have given me unrealistic expectations of the extent of the testing team's responsibility in this department, I apologize.

 

As far as slamming testers goes, that is absolutely not my intent. The intent of my post was to highlight what I (and others) perceive as a failure of the system. Of course I don't expect every tester to have intimate knowledge of every bug. But when someone brings up a bug which has a major impact on gameplay, has been outstanding for two years, and has very high visibility in the community (at least among player who operate that module), and the first response of one of the most prominent members of the testing team is "I've never even heard of that bug.", then -obviously- somewhere along the line, something fell into a hole.

[NineLine]

I dont fly the Ka-50 much, although I have started to take an interest in it. (I am a terrible helicopter pilot and I own them all lol).

 

Also I didnt bring it up, I just replied that I didnt know about them, and more so I meant that I didnt know what a fix would entail, but would imagine its more than an animation fix.