Barrel bombs

[badger66]

Be fantastic if someone could model a barrel bomb , like the Syrian Air Force are using .

[Winfield_Gold]

and a BLU-82 while they are at it :)

[Cibit]

Make the call to Upaut he is our model guru :thumbup:

[Dun_Aenghus]

Hmm I'm not sure how this would fit into the sim. Seems like an improvised device to carpet bomb and kill civilians which is only used by the Syrian military, certainly not a standard Mi8 loadout.

[Kaktus29]

@dun.. restrain from politics.. especially the lying part of politics..

[Sceptre]

Yeah a barrel bomb would be great! The more damage, the better :D

[OutOnTheOP]

  Kaktus29 said:

@dun.. restrain from politics.. especially the lying part of politics..

 

I'm not quite certain which part is inaccurate. The Syrian military *is* the only force that seems to be using anything similar to this, and unless you believe that a barrel is aerodynamic enough to retain militarily effective accuracy against fleeting point targets, it's hard to imagine them being used in such a way that is *not* detrimental to civilians.

[eurofor]

I would prefer that they focus on armament for conventional conflicts first but otherwise I generally think field modifications and odd special weapons like this are quite interesting.

 

  Dun_Aenghus said:

(...) improvised device to carpet bomb and kill civilians (...)

  OutOnTheOP said:

(...) it's hard to imagine them being used in such a way that is *not* detrimental to civilians.

 

In my opinion this aspect of the discussion is pure politics. This weapon makes perfect sense in the case of house-to-house fighting in ruined cities where there is unlikely to be any civilians left. And any weapon can kill civilians.

[Cibit]

Mine will be filled with Sarin or beer, depending on enemies. Sarin for nasty enemies and beer for just naughty ones;)

[Dudikoff]

  eurofor said:

In my opinion this aspect of the discussion is pure politics. This weapon makes perfect sense in the case of house-to-house fighting in ruined cities where there is unlikely to be any civilians left.

 

Yes, because it's unusually precise, it is always launched from high altitudes. A real CAS pearl. Wonder how long will it take other nations to recognize the benefits and introduce them..

 

Not sure if it would be as useful in DCS due to the lack of ruined cities and inferior weather modeling which would make it seem rather imprecise. Maybe when we get EDGE, I bet it will fix this, too.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Dudikoff

[eurofor]

  ijozic said:

Yes, because it's unusually precise, it is always launched from high altitudes. A real CAS pearl. Wonder how long will it take other nations to recognize the benefits and introduce them..

 

(...)

 

It is likely very cost effective and the big explosion radius doesn't require it to be accurate. It allows them to avoid putting boots on the ground. How does that not make sense? Stuff like this come out of necessity, not planning.

[Fri13]

  Dun_Aenghus said:

Hmm I'm not sure how this would fit into the sim. Seems like an improvised device to carpet bomb and kill civilians which is only used by the Syrian military, certainly not a standard Mi8 loadout.

All weapons are meant to kill civilians, were those Syrian designed barrel bombs or USA designed "smart weapons".....

[Winfield_Gold]

  Fri13 said:

All weapons are meant to kill civilians, were those Syrian designed barrel bombs or USA designed "smart weapons".....

 

an interesting quote this. What about the first "smart bombs" from the 1st gulf war which never hit a target. Most of the bombs dropped in and around Iraq killed civilians. Who ever it was at the start of this thread making a political statement, in war people die. Civilians die, blue on blue, who cares it just war and in war people die.

 

I can't wait for a dev to make a vietnam war map. Carpet\barrel bombing Hanoi in with a 100 odd B-52's. :pilotfly: Napalm on the forests with EDGE is going to look like HD quality, especially the fried VK troops as I roll past in my CA module

Edited June 26, 2014 by Winfield_Gold

[Serp Supreme]

  Winfield_Gold said:

an interesting quote this. What about the first "smart bombs" from the 1st gulf war which never hit a target. Most of the bombs dropped in and around Iraq killed civilians.

 

Now, this might just be my headstrong American ego talking, but I don't think this is true. I'd like to see some proof on this. As far as I know, guided munitions were extremely effective during the Gulf War. Yes, I'm confident that many civilians were probably killed, but you that most of the bombs dropped killed civvies, not only a select few ones. Not to mention the fact that I'm relatively certain they had very precise accuracy.

[Scrim]

  Kaktus29 said:

@dun.. restrain from politics.. especially the lying part of politics..

 

"Don't talk politics here! Besides, your political views are incorrect." :doh:

 

  eurofor said:

In my opinion this aspect of the discussion is pure politics. This weapon makes perfect sense in the case of house-to-house fighting in ruined cities where there is unlikely to be any civilians left. And any weapon can kill civilians.

 

Are you legit kidding me? A weapon with the aerodynamic precision of a badly maintained arquebus is useful for anything? Hint: No, it's not. If you're supporting infantry in urban combat you're just as likely to hit them as your enemy. And it is anything but political to question the legality of the barrel bombs in Syria: The Geneva Convention explicitly forbids weapons that are indiscriminate by nature, e.g. by virtue of being very inaccurate. Don't make no difference who's using them; Illegal weapons are just as illegal regardless of if it's Darth Vader or Mother Theresa using them.

 

 

Regardless of amateur views on the effectiveness and purpose of these bombs, they'd be tasteless to include IMHO. Why? Read the papers. The Syrian civil war has raged for years with hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, and heli dropped barrel bombs have no history of being used in any other conflict. Further, it is definitely a controversial weapon, blamed for the deaths of many civilians. Common sense: Let's not have that in DCS for the sake of entertainment. If the common decency aspect isn't convincing enough, try to imagine the public backlash BST, ED and DCS would experience at the hands of the news and social media if barrel bombs would be included.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Scrim

[Sceptre]

So the Geneva convention forbids fuel air bombs?