190 or 109?

[USARStarkey]

cant wait to shoot down that piece of garbage, or should i say, exercise in subpar mediocrity.

[Shahdoh]

For "subpar mediocrity", Erich Hartmann seemed to do pretty well with it. Even past its prime time, even preferring it to the Me262. /shrug

[Kurfürst]

I always liked to fly the underdog anyway. That is if that underdog has nearly 600 hp for every ton. :D

[Cake]

I think it's better to worry about what plane will enable you to not get shot at than to worry about what plane can take more hits, at least in an A-A environment.

 

You are dead in the water with an early 190 against a D Mustang.

 

I won't argue that, at least not for flying a sim, where I agree it's not a concern. Hypothetically, if I had a friend who had the choice of what to fly during WWII, other things being reasonably equal, liquid cooling was best avoided. Other than the pilots who didn't make it back and the mechanics who wrenched on these, most people have little appreciation for how fragile liquid cooled fighter engines were during WWII. Lose your coolant and you are screwed. The reality is that something as simple as a hose failing or coming off was problematic even without battle damage. The mechanics on these used to get taught to count how many drops of liquid leaked out in a given time to decide whether p51s were mission ready or not. Depending on the airplane, they did the same thing for oil and hydraulic fluid, too.

 

On the other hand, radial engines were very tough and known to make it home with substantial damage. This is just my opinion after talking to guys who flew many of these types and wrenched on them during WWII.

[USARStarkey]

I always liked to fly the underdog anyway. That is if that underdog has nearly 600 hp for every ton. :D

 

Or the aerodynamics of a brick with wings.

[flare2000x]

Guys, I've said this before. Please stop arguing over "peices of garbage" and "bricks with wings". This is just a poll! You are free to express your opinions, but don't make assumptions unless you have definitive evidence. (The hosrepower of X is X, and the airspeed is X, therefore X will happen.)

[NineLine]

I personally will fly the Dora on Monday Wednesday and Friday, and the Kurfurst on Tuesday Thursday and Saturday... Sunday I will drink dark beer and eat bratwurst...

[SAM77]

Typical jingoist BS.

 

Can't wait for both. Dora and K4

 

German engines destroy anything the British or the Americans can build now.

 

Some people need to make up for their current insecurities.

Edited July 14, 2014 by SAM77

[DB 605]

Or the aerodynamics of a brick with wings.

 

[USARStarkey]

Typical jingoist BS.

 

Can't wait for both. Dora and K4

 

German engines destroy anything the British or the Americans can build now.

 

Some people need to make up for their current insecurities.

 

I'm not quite sure you know what "jingoist" means. Your use of it in a sentence within the context of this thread implies rather heavily that you do not.

[USARStarkey]

 

Or you could. Nice picture, make it yourself? :megalol:

[Kurfürst]

Or the aerodynamics of a brick with wings.

 

Imagine the face of a brand new Mustang's owner when he still gets beaten in drag race by a 20 year old Honda Civic. He just cant get why it happens, now can he. ;)

[USARStarkey]

Probably a face similar to the average Luftwaffe pilot during big week, full of despair.

[DB 605]

Or you could.

 

I'm not the one who is trolling here. But you're right, i will stop right here because your childish comments are not worth of answering.

[USARStarkey]

I was never trolling. I'm also not the one posting childish pictures to do my talking for me. Once again, the defense of a non-entity is taking presence over courtesy to a actual human being. My opinion is so incredulous to you that you think it necessary to insult my character. Now who is being childish again?

[Aginor]

All of you.

[ZaltysZ]

Or the aerodynamics of a brick with wings.

 

Stick good enough engine to the brick and it will eat aerodynamic wonders for breakfast. :D

[Isegrim]

:D I see the day coming and if it will take years but this doesnt matter, some 109 Dislikers settle their Virtual Backend into a 109 .....Learning about it....Starting it.....Flying it.....and Probably fighting with it..........and than, not all of them but many......Starting to love it.:D

 

It is that one thing that changes our opinions about things we never had in hands before. And it will win one or the other day.

 

Its Called

 

Curiosity.

 

:D

 

ISE

[SAM77]

I'm not quite sure you know what "jingoist" means. Your use of it in a sentence within the context of this thread implies rather heavily that you do not.

 

Colloquially, it refers to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others—an extreme type of nationalism

 

Judging one's own countries aeroplane/motor as superior to others.

 

BMW and Merc are still going strong too bad the same can't be said of the US motor industry.

 

If you can handle high tech checkout the current Mercedes F1 motor.

 

You may have won the war but that means diddly now. The Germans had better engineers back then and they increased the advantage now.

 

 

 

Ooh I almost forgot.... Ki84 outperformed late war Mustang and P-47 when it ran the avgas available to the allies............

 

Japanese engineers were owning you guys way back then :P

 

Will be interesting to see if Honda will do what they have done previously in CART.

 

Send the other guys home like they did back in the 90s

 

Chevy has a 2 year head start.

Lets see how long it lasts!!!!

Edited July 14, 2014 by SAM77

[MiloMorai]

USA 11,045,902 vehicles produced, 6.9% increase

 

Germany 5,718,822 vehicles produced, 1.2% increase

 

The USA motor industry is doing quite well.

 

Anyways back on OT. There is nothing wrong with the 109 except it is FORD (fix or replace daily) Fw was somewhat better in that regard.

[SAM77]

They making as much profit as the Germans????

 

 

Doubt it....

[gavagai]

And the most shot down fighter.:D

 

Similar story for the Sopwith Camel, most kills and most losses, but that does not stop many from calling it the "most successful" fighter of WW1. I wonder why the same is not true for the Bf 109? To me that is decisive evidence that moral beliefs and national sentiment catastrophically infect judgment in these discussions.

[Isegrim]

USA 11,045,902 vehicles produced, 6.9% increase

 

Germany 5,718,822 vehicles produced, 1.2% increase

 

The USA motor industry is doing quite well.

 

Anyways back on OT. There is nothing wrong with the 109 except it is FORD (fix or replace daily) Fw was somewhat better in that regard.

 

Try to find out how many of them are part of german Motor Companys like Mercedes or VW and BMW which are just producing in the USA.:smilewink:

 

So you cant go with the Country you have to go with the Companys. Or dont you think that the US Market is slightly bigger than the German Market?

 

Edit: Also other countrys Car Companys count here (Toyota/Peugeot)

 

But BTT :poster_offtopic:

Edited July 14, 2014 by Isegrim

[Aginor]

Similar story for the Sopwith Camel, most kills and most losses, but that does not stop many from calling it the "most successful" fighter of WW1. I wonder why the same is not true for the Bf 109? To me that is decisive evidence that moral beliefs and national sentiment catastrophically infect judgment in these discussions.

 

Especially if you have to take into account that towards the end of the war the Germans just took some young would-be-pilots, and after a few training hours in the SG-38 and perhaps a Bf-108 they were sent to fly the 109 in combat. They were lucky not to get killed while taking off or landing. The pilots were bad. That doesn't say anything about the planes.

[NineLine]

Can you guys talk about aircraft without pulling each others hair??