Black Shark Poll

[Dusty Rhodes]

Mark, Area 51 is an integral part of the development of FO. Why you think it is OK for you, as a representative of ED, to talk negative a part of FO, yet Buckshot, can't express his PERSONAL opinion about an ED product, just amazes me. That sir is a double standard. If you don't see that then I won't be able to convince you that it is indeed and truly unfair treatment of Buckshot. We'll just agree to disagree, I guess. :( :(

[S77th-GOYA]

Re-word the poll with some less suggestive language.

 

No.

 

There is an option for people who have no interest in helicopter sims and will not spend their money on something they don't want. If someone's opinion doesn't fall close enough to one of the given choices, they may chose their own wording and add it in this thread.

[Shepski]

Mark, Area 51 is an integral part of the development of FO. Why you think it is OK for you, as a representative of ED, to talk negative a part of FO, yet Buckshot, can't express his PERSONAL opinion about an ED product, just amazes me. That sir is a double standard. If you don't see that then I won't be able to convince you that it is indeed and truly unfair treatment of Buckshot. We'll just agree to disagree, I guess. :( :(

 

Geez Dusty,

 

Me not supporting Area 51, which, Buckshot has stated previously that the funds aren't a big part of the financial picture( http://www.fighterops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4233 ) and it's more of a marketing aspect, is not the same as Buckshot saying he thinks Black Shark is a waste of money(which he has since clarified). Those are 2 opinions that carry very different weight.

 

Area 51 is not as integral to the development of the actual product then you seem to think and I respect that it's their choice to market it that way even if I don't agree with it.

 

Hell... there was lots of things throughout the devlopment of Flanker/Lock On that I didn't agree with and wasn't afraid to say it publicly.

 

Anyway... I think this has been beat to death!

[Dusty Rhodes]

We'll just agree to disagree :(

[Shepski]

We'll just agree to disagree :(

 

Yup... now let's get this back on topic.

 

I still love ya though! ;)

[Dusty Rhodes]

Back at cha Mark! :D

[Dudikoff]

Beyond a helicopter simulation, what is it?

 

Well, for one, it's the first hi-fi sim which simulates jets AND helos in the same product so it might be viewed as a kind of a test. I really hope this proves successful because it opens a whole new perspective on the battlefield. I hope it might pave a way to some future product which would simulate multiple platforms (including some strike aircraft) with AFMs, 6DOF cockpits and all. This would really be awesome for online play.

 

I voted for the fourth option because I'm not buying it primarily for the helo. As much as I like this particular chopper, I'm not sure I'll be playing with it much. Since it's the only flyable helo in the last upgrade to this game, I dare to doubt there would be enough adjustments to achieve a truly immersive helicopter battlefield, IMHO. The real thing is, I'd pay full price just for mission editor and AI improvements alone, so the question of whether I'd buy ANY upgrade to this sim doesn't really come into question.

 

But, I understand them. It is much better to test this all with an upgrade to the sim which reached its end of the line. It certainly wouldn't make sense that they e.g. made an F-16 in this upgrade. Now THAT would have been a waste of money from ED's point of view.

[Caretaker]

I wasn't as enthusiastic about the Ka-50 as I am now... still not my personal #1 choice, but hey, everyone has his personal preferences. Anyway, not sure why threads like this always heat up... "some like it, some don't" isn't such a complicated concept, right? ;) I understand the online community would rather have seen updates in the AA area; the Ka-50 itself won't add much to that for sure, but some of the other features may still.

[Pilotasso]

Regarding FO:

 

I believe Buckshot's first post here regarding area 51 was targeted at me. For the sake of understanding I need to say this:

 

I was never and will never be a fanboy of anything. I used to play falcon 4 (I played falcon 3 Gold for like 6 years avidely, so far its still holds my personal record of flight simming time). I have no dogmatic or biased view torwards any sim. I get any SIM regardless of its developer, if its good and if I like it.

 

If FO achieves half of what it promises to be (specialy Flight modeling, missile modeling and terrain ) Ill dig up the 100 Buck needed for it. Believe me.

 

My personal view of the Area 51 concept is a direct reflection of my financial situation right now. If I had a steady job and a good sallary, I would have spent the 25$ for it. Its a small amount of money. But right now it would agravate my budget further, and I simply cant afford to spend it before the product is out, and it may well be several years beofore F-16 is added to it. When the amount of money is this important, paying in advance is something that feels awkward to do. It sure is unusual thing to do IMHO anyway, you guys realy are taking some financial risks here.

 

Furhter more I am perfectly aware that ED and XSI aproach will be similar inside the cockpit but will certainly be very different in everything else. I will get any SIM regardless of time frame and timing, as long as their content is good and enjoyable.

[Buckshot]

Totally understand where you are coming from Pilotasso, and we are of course totally fine with that point of view. I still think there's a little misunderstanding in the paying in advance statement, but anyhow, the overall sentiment is totally understandable.

[Stormin]

Another example of why the combat flight sim community is its own worst enemy.

 

Come on, you guys ALL need to lighten the hell up. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and when it comes to polls, should you choose to participate then you are limited to the answer provided that best meets your opinion.

 

As for sim developers and designers being critical of one another's products in public: it has always been and will continue to be bad form. We all need to support one another in a friendly spirit of competition. I believe this is the case with the individuals here but the communications limits of text and a forum often do not bring out the best in all of us.

 

I've played Blackshark. It is awesome. I have inside info on FighterOps, it is exciting and I look forward to it. Now, everyone, take hold and raise their pint glasses and start acting like a unified community! :icon_jook

 

That is all.

[Buckshot]

Well said Carl, couldn't agree more.

[Stormin]

Which of the following best describes how you feel about the Ka-50 add-on.

 

 

The poll answer choices are weak and don't represent how I feel. Too many editorial comments and not enough diversity in the answers. A poor poll, IMO. Take if for what it's worth in the friendly spirit intended. You can see what a positive effect it had in this thread. ;)

[Pilotasso]

Lying is also not a good way for PR either. I respect every opinion, but I also think Lying "for the sake of the comunity" could later be percieved as loss of credibility of anything ever spoken by someone responsable in any DEV team.

[Stormin]

Lying is also not a good way for PR either. I respect every opinion, but I also think Lying "for the sake of the comunity" could later be percieved as loss of credibility of anything ever spoken by someone responsable in any DEV team.

 

Lying? Whom are you accusing of being a liar? I don't happen to believe anyone here is lying about anything.

[Pilotasso]

Lying? Whom are you accusing of being a liar? I don't happen to believe anyone here is lying about anything.

 

You misindertood my post. My comment was largely hypothetical. and wasnt aimed at anyone in specific.

 

Buckshot said his justice and it didnt please some people, so what? no big deal. hence my post:

Lying is also not a good way for PR either. I respect every opinion, but I also think Lying "for the sake of the comunity" could later be percieved as loss of credibility of anything ever spoken by someone responsable in any DEV team.

 

My vote wasnt exactly too enthusiatic either. I would be lying and faking my postition and would later risk loosing credibility. Thats all.

[SwingKid]

Another example of why the combat flight sim community is its own worst enemy.

 

I for one like it when great people get all defensive and catty. It makes me feel less stupid about all the times it's me. :)

 

Staying WAY THE HELL CLEAR of THIS poll... :)

 

(PUBLIC?! get out...)

 

-SK

[S77th-GOYA]

The poll answer choices are weak and don't represent how I feel.

 

I've played Blackshark. It is awesome.

 

There is an answer choice for "awesome". Feel free to elaborate, though.

 

I will readily admit that the way the poll was worded allowed many people to perceive it differently. That in itself isn't a bad thing. We got a lot of comments from a lot of people that we probably wouldn't have otherwise. Unfortunately, misunderstandings can happen. If you see weakness in the possible choices, however, we await your improved poll.

[SwingKid]

Once upon a time, combatsim ran a poll about, "which sim are you going to buy?", with a list of about titles that weren't yet released.

 

IIRC, the winner was B-17 II or some such bomber sim at >90% expressed interest, that generated a buzz like nothing I'd ever seen before. "Finally, a WWII bomber sim!!" You couldn't find a doubting word about it in the forums, it was anticipated as "the flight sim to end all flight sims" - the Beethoven's symphony number 9, after which no new product could hope to compete. After release (just before which, some 90% of the anticipated features were snipped), I never saw a good word written about it again.

 

The losing sim on the poll, by a huge margin, scored only around 2% (compared to about 15% for the next-least-anticipated sim on the list). I felt sorry for it, and the poor developer who was spending so much time, effort, money and personal sacrifice, to develop a sim that nobody wanted to buy.

 

That was Il-2.

 

-SK

[Cosmonaut]

wow This threads been on a real rollercoaster ride! :icon_jook

 

 

Polls like this can be seen as an invitation to criticize the Devs but personally I always choose not to see it as an either or situation, in other words "fix what we have before you add anything else". I have always been looking for a good combat helicopter sim so the "Awesome! Just what I wanted!" comes close enough. Sure I'd like to have an F18 ;) or have existing bugs fixed but I believe that ED in part is using the release of FC and BS as a test bed for future products which is why some might think that ED have their priorities a little mixed up.

 

I fly helicopters all the time in M$FS but mostly SAR or EMS missions so I'm looking forward to flying combat missions with a helicopter of the complexity I'm used to in FS9. When ever a good LOBS update is announced I usually post it over on the hovercontrol boards and its always met with extreme interest which imo is saying a lot seeing as r/l helicopter pilots hang out there. Also I don't have a problem with a combat jet sim including a helicopter, in fact I can't believe its taken so long ;) and for those that think they wont be using the Ka50 much then believe me when I say that you will be surprised at how much fun you will have while trying to do the stupidest of things like hovering behind a tree/ building or staying with in the torque limits as you transition for a pinpoint landing while carrying a heavy load :). IMO the Ka50 will be more popular than a lot of people think and I can bet even LOBS biggest critics will become hooked by the flying guillotines. :horseback

[Stormin]

...we await your improved poll.

 

You'll be waiting forever. I have no intention of wasting my time, or yours for that matter, on an internet forum poll. Sorry, but they don't seem to serve any useful purpose, especially when the choices for answers are as ill concieved as the one in question. Again, kind criticism that is well-intentioned.

 

Polls like this one don't do a very good job of representing the variety of opinons that actually exist in the community. I'll take constructive discussion over any poll, anytime.

[bflagg]

Wow.. Stormin... been a while...

 

you have to admit this poll did start up a discussion....

Somethings constructive... some not...