F-86 vs Mig-15 , will you model G-suits ?

[ANGST]

I was looking at a mig and Saber today at the USAF museum . one of the advantages the US pilots had were g-suits . Will any consideration be give to the fact the Mig pilots can't pull as many gs as the US could ?

[leafer]

Huh. If it's true then they oughta work that in.

[Mrgud]

I am not a Russian military pilot so I don't know for sure, but from documentaries; Russian pilots often fly aerobatics without their G suits connected because "the real man can withstand the Gs on their own!" And American pilots are usually taller than the Russian ones so they should withstand the Gs more difficultly. Just take a look at the Blue angels and compare pilots with the Russian knights.

 

Don't take this literally but as some kind of joke. In Croatia we often say that in every joke is a little bit of truth. ;)

[RNeves]

There is a big diference between russian stunts and american stunts...

 

The americans make high speed, coordinated stunts (high G load).

 

The russians make, most times, solo stunts at low speeds making mean maneouvers with the MiGs (low G load)...

 

So this is why they do not use G suits!

 

That's just a silly thing they say, because there is no way of supporting the G load a MiG or a F-18 can inflict without any G suit!

 

And it is true about the MiG 15 pilots not having G suits, i once talked with a portuguese fighter pilot on the Portuguese colonial war memorial (they flew the F-86 on the early days of the war, before NATO forbiddened it, and it was replaced by the Fiat G91) and he told me just that, the f-86 pilots had that huge advantage, and the fact that they were sitting wuth their backs leaning back, instead of being vertical, but it only counted at high energy dogfights, because if they managed to pull the fight into low speeds, the MiGs were much more difficult to catch!

[Mrgud]

We all know that nobody can sustain 6 or 7 Gs for longer period of time without the G suit. I wrote that as a joke ;)

[Exorcet]

Make it an option if it's added so the MiG-15 isn't limited to operating in its Korean War state.

[ANGST]

A nagging problem for the Soviet pilots was that they did not have G-suits that were needed in the hugh speed dogfights that demanded prompt and tight maneuvering. If they pulled high Gs, they were prone to blackout. This series of photos shows John Stapp riding in the “Sonic Wind” sled up to a speed of 421 mph in March 1954. He did not have a G-suit. You can see him black out in frame number 6. The G forces do most of their damage during acceleration. In most situations, both MiG and Sabre pilots flew fairly slowly until they entered combat, when they would suddenly accelerate to gain the advantage. That’s when G-forces would hit the Soviets hard. The Americans had G-suits to keep the blood flow in the upper half of their body instead of forcing it all downward.

 

From : http://www.talkingproud.us/Military/MiGAlley/MiGAlley/Mig15F86Debut.html

[NineLine]

Would be kinda cool if the g-suit could be added as a item like a weapon in the ME, so if the G-suit is added to the aircraft the pilot could stand more g's... you could even add it as a resource... only so many g-suits available for a mission...

[macd1102]

if MiG-15 pilots flew without g-suits why would you make it available for the mig,

[RNeves]

A nagging problem for the Soviet pilots was that they did not have G-suits that were needed in the hugh speed dogfights that demanded prompt and tight maneuvering. If they pulled high Gs, they were prone to blackout. This series of photos shows John Stapp riding in the “Sonic Wind” sled up to a speed of 421 mph in March 1954. He did not have a G-suit. You can see him black out in frame number 6. The G forces do most of their damage during acceleration. In most situations, both MiG and Sabre pilots flew fairly slowly until they entered combat, when they would suddenly accelerate to gain the advantage. That’s when G-forces would hit the Soviets hard. The Americans had G-suits to keep the blood flow in the upper half of their body instead of forcing it all downward.

 

From : http://www.talkingproud.us/Military/MiGAlley/MiGAlley/Mig15F86Debut.html

 

G forces as we know it, are actually the measurement of the acceleration suffered in a certain direction. In this case we are talking about vertical acceleration (the one that makes the pilots faint).

 

For example, a pilot experiencing 7G's is having a vertical acceleration 7 times greater than the acceleration of gravity... That said, the pilot's weight increases 7 times...

:smilewink:

[NineLine]

if MiG-15 pilots flew without g-suits why would you make it available for the mig,

 

Because its assumed that maybe they fly them now with G-suits (airshows and such) Maybe they added them later on... actually I dont know... :)

[Exorcet]

if MiG-15 pilots flew without g-suits why would you make it available for the mig,

The MiG did not stop existing after the Korean war, nor is DCS limited to simulating real history.

[Scrim]

I don't know. If MiG-15 pilots ever actually got G-suits, of course. But if they didn't, I'd rather they aren't included for them. I mean, we don't even get upgrades for the A-10C that it 100% certainly has today because it's not the same suite, so it'd be a tad strange to have it for MiG-15s in that case.

 

That being said though, the bis variant was the last made IIRC, and seeing how long it remained in service, it'd be strange if the pilots didn't get G-suits eventually.

[NineLine]

I don't know. If MiG-15 pilots ever actually got G-suits, of course. But if they didn't, I'd rather they aren't included for them. I mean, we don't even get upgrades for the A-10C that it 100% certainly has today because it's not the same suite, so it'd be a tad strange to have it for MiG-15s in that case.

 

That being said though, the bis variant was the last made IIRC, and seeing how long it remained in service, it'd be strange if the pilots didn't get G-suits eventually.

 

 

Ummm that is a terrible comparison... we dont get suite updates for the A-10C for different reasons than we are talking about with G-suits...

[Scrim]

Of course it's a terrible comparison, whatever you say ;)

[SgtPappy]

I don't know. If MiG-15 pilots ever actually got G-suits, of course. But if they didn't, I'd rather they aren't included for them. I mean, we don't even get upgrades for the A-10C that it 100% certainly has today because it's not the same suite, so it'd be a tad strange to have it for MiG-15s in that case.

 

That being said though, the bis variant was the last made IIRC, and seeing how long it remained in service, it'd be strange if the pilots didn't get G-suits eventually.

 

Let's put it this way: we're like airshow pilots flying P-51's, F-15's, Su-27's, A-10's and F-86's in Georgia. That isn't realistic, but it's certainly physically possible. That is the premise of DCS world, isn't it? A large playground of different, awesome planes being flown by random pilots. But in this world, we can shoot each other and blow things up at will!

 

So why would there be a G-suit limitation in a world where airshow pilots fly many different planes? Take the F-15 pilot. He flies the Sabre, and the MiG-15 and the A-10. He's not going to suddenly change to bad equipment.

 

Although, like Sith mentioned earlier, maybe in some missions, there will be a G-suit restriction when we want Korean War missions.

[NineLine]

Of course it's a terrible comparison, whatever you say ;)

 

Yes 1950's G-suit to Classified weapons suite on Modern A-10C... right...

 

Maybe you are confused by the extra 'e' ;)

[Exorcet]

I don't know. If MiG-15 pilots ever actually got G-suits, of course. But if they didn't, I'd rather they aren't included for them. I mean, we don't even get upgrades for the A-10C that it 100% certainly has today because it's not the same suite, so it'd be a tad strange to have it for MiG-15s in that case.

 

That being said though, the bis variant was the last made IIRC, and seeing how long it remained in service, it'd be strange if the pilots didn't get G-suits eventually.

I'd think things like this would work on a case by case basis. The g suit itself will probably be semi generic. I think it might be worth having the suit even if the MiG-15 never got one as it could be used in some hypothetical situations (like Russia/Korea/etc capturing a pilot and reverse engineering the suit, or something). Given the map we have you need to come up with a hypothetical situation as is to have one side shooting the other, so I don't mind straying from history a little bit.

 

It would also be a nice option for multiplayer just for the sake of it.

[mjmorrow]

For Korean War scenarios there probably shouldn't be G-suits, but if Mig-15 pilots had the suits later on, such as during the First Taiwan Strait Crisis, then it makes sense to include the suits. Did Mig-15bis pilots ever get G-suits? I think that if they did use the suits, at some time, the suit should be available, but not for Korean War era missions. :thumbup:

[SDsc0rch]

I was looking at a mig and Saber today at the USAF museum . one of the advantages the US pilots had were g-suits . Will any consideration be give to the fact the Mig pilots can't pull as many gs as the US could ?

 

what an intriguing question!

 

i think that would be amazing if they could work that in somehow..

[Serp Supreme]

I'm not even positive that g-forces have any effect on the AI. We all know they like to cheat, so it's not unrealistic thinking this. Anyone else?

[SyntaxError]

Would be great to get accurate pilot models first though.

[mjmorrow]

what an intriguing question!

 

i think that would be amazing if they could work that in somehow..

 

Yes! A lack of G- Suits will really add to the challenge of sim flying the Mig-15bis in DCS multiplayer. When we are going with Korean War match ups, this makes great sense. The Mig-15bis is a bomber interceptor, optimized to hunt B-29's. Without a G- Suit, to pick off a Sabre will take great care and skill, as it should. There was nothing easy about fighting against the FEAF Sabre pilots in the real World. This is a flight simulator. In multiplayer, dealing with a lack of G-suits just adds to the simulation of flying a Mig-15bis. :thumbup:

[bumfire]

I have seen a good few documentaries about the korean air wars and it was said in most if not all that G suits were only worn by the UN side.

 

The north koreans/russians/chinese supposedly did not wear them at all, plus the russians were not allowed to fly their migs out to or near the sea whilst chasing sabres incase they got shot down and captured, they were strictly forbidden from going anywhere near the sea.

Edited September 17, 2014 by bumfire
Missed out a word.

[Fivebyfive]

If there is ever a Korean war scenario (which I really hope we see), then Mig15s should not have G-suits. On the other hand they should have the Sirena systems that gave an audio warning when a Sabre Radar was locking onto the Mig.

 

Let's stick to what planes actually had instead of artificially diluting the matchup. The planes were pretty balanced despite having very different design philosophies and on-board equipment. This is what makes the F86 Vs Mig15 one of the best matchups in the history of air combat in my opinion. It's the 109 vs Spit in the jet age.