German Insignia and Swastika - the perfect proportionality for skin makers

[NRG-Vampire]

unfortunately i see many unproportional insignias and swastikas, (sometimes the wrong swastika is too narrow or too wide) however you guys made very nice skins :thumbup:

 

so if you need perfect signs you must start with a 5*5 pixels net - yes these are really small :)

5*5 pixels ! ! !

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later you can do some simple pixel resize

to 100*100 pixels

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i used a 1 pixel wide red line on the 100*100 pixel map for the border (inside of the swastika)

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and

did a resize to 400*400 so the red border now is 4 pixel wide

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again, you should start with a 5*5 pixels net

i used only 3 colors to illustrate the 5*5 net: a black and 2 shades of gray (plus the red for the border) of course you should recolour those pixels to white, to black etc.

 

Final signs:

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Good luck skin makers :thumbsup:

 

example:

Edited September 15, 2014 by NRG-Vampire

[Bearkiller72]

Hmm, the Balkenkreuz seems a little off; white border too thick.

 

Here's some official stuff on the matter:

 

 

(Taken from "Luftwaffe Camouflage And Markings Vol.2" by Merrick and Kiroff)

[dooom]

Balkenkreuz is off - the graphical sides are 4 segments as opposed to 5.

[NRG-Vampire]

Hmm, the Balkenkreuz seems a little off; white border too thick.

 

yeah, as i see the Balkenkreuz sometime is thick/wide, sometimes is thin/narrow

as many aircrafts as many types of (different) paintings in the real life :book: not according to the standard

 

https://www.google.hu/search?q=the+Balkenkreuz&espv=2&biw=1902&bih=883&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=9EgXVIWoKouGywPbsYDwAw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=Balkenkreuz

 

http://www.luftarchiv.de/index.htm?/flugzeugbau/kenungen.htm

 

this one looks 1/8 segments (line)

Edited September 15, 2014 by NRG-Vampire

[Bearkiller72]

yeah, as i see the Balkenkreuz sometime is thick/wide, sometimes is thin/narrow

as many aircrafts as many types of (different) paintings in the real life :book: not according to the standard

 

https://www.google.hu/search?q=the+Balkenkreuz&espv=2&biw=1902&bih=883&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=9EgXVIWoKouGywPbsYDwAw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=Balkenkreuz

 

Yes, sometimes it was altered due to tactical considerations, e.g. 1940 the upper Balkenkreuze were sometimes overpainted with a larger black inner cross. But this was down on squadron level. Also sometimes, the BK's were overpainted in black during night missions.

 

There seems to be no standard, but there was. And you can see the standard on the scans above. All other applications have to be judged from the photo/picture one likes to create a skin from.

 

I'm sorry, but using google as a proof reference isn't helping. :book:

 

No hurt feelings, I hope! :)

[Bearkiller72]

 

this one looks 1/8 segments (line)

 

AFAIK same standard separation, only colours reversed; hence the thin look. Also, no outline - makes it looking slimmer.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Bearkiller72
misssspelling ;-)

[NRG-Vampire]

 

No hurt feelings, I hope! :)

 

nope, thanks for the help/info, i only would like to see correct size of markings/signs (while i dont want to point at some wrong markings/signs on skins)

[JST]

The proportions and standards for insignia and markings were loose even before late-war '44-'45.

 

If I'm not skinning from photographs, I go with what looks the best.

 

And in that case, what looks the best is the perfect proportionality.

[Bearkiller72]

The sizes actually were all the same, because they used pre cut masks to spray or paint the insignia on, as I've read somewhere. Could go searching for it, if needed. As for the black to white ratio on the crosses itself, that's non standard sometimes, depending on the tactical frontline situation, as pointed out. Also the style of the crosses varied 4-5 times from '39-'45, sometimes giving a false impression.

"What looks best" seems to me the same as the OP's attempt to define a standard for all Balkenkreuze. Alas, nogo.

Just like Stars'n'Bars changed from '41-'45, so did the BK's. If you wanna go historical, pick a paint scheme, check the year and check the possible markings for that period. Not "what looks best". :-)

[Krupi]

There were various sizes... (These are late war)

 

[JST]

"What looks best" seems to me the same as the OP's attempt to define a standard for all Balkenkreuze. Alas, nogo.

Just like Stars'n'Bars changed from '41-'45, so did the BK's. If you wanna go historical, pick a paint scheme, check the year and check the possible markings for that period. Not "what looks best". :-)

 

That is simply they way I personally do it, any problem you have with that is yours to deal with.

 

If I want to "go historical", I use photographs, anything beyond that is just speculation and open for interpretation.

 

This discussion is just as fruitless as discussing what colour and shade RLM 83 is/was/was supposed to be/never was. You don't know, I don't know and those who knew probably aren't alive anymore.

 

There were various sizes... (These are late war)

 

And do not even cover every late-war variant.

Edited September 16, 2014 by JST

[Bearkiller72]

If I want to "go historical", I use photographs, anything beyond that is just speculation and open for interpretation.

 

This discussion is just as fruitless as discussing what colour and shade RLM 83 is/was/was supposed to be/never was. You don't know, I don't know and those who knew probably aren't alive anymore.

 

As for the first: fine! Go on!

As for the second: no. There's evidence.

Black and white crosses do not betray the viewers eye even when on black and white photographs. Your reference to RLM colours is beside the point.

[Bearkiller72]

That is simply they way I personally do it, any problem you have with that is yours to deal with.

 

I didn't criticise your skinning abilities, or approaches towards skin-making.

Stop starting to become hostile right away, because that's what your reply sounds to me.

 

I only remarked your seemingly "laissez-fair" approach towards historical skins as being a bit too easy.

 

And now: let's end this right here and now, before it becomes truly effortless.

[JST]

As for the first: fine! Go on!

As for the second: no. There's evidence.

Black and white crosses do not betray the viewers eye even when on black and white photographs. Your reference to RLM colours is beside the point.

 

There is definitely photographic evidence that the standards for insignia were loose, just like there is photographs with insignia adhering to standard. See how this goes both ways?

 

How is this not open to interpretation and speculation with the lack of photographic evidence of a certain plane?

[rrohde]

Another shoutout for this reference here (thanks NRG Varmpire):

 

http://www.luftarchiv.de/index.htm?/flugzeugbau/kenungen.htm

[Bearkiller72]

@Krupi; @rrhode : Thanks! ^^