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How to learn how To actually "fly" the KA50?


Lampdude
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Hi, I have gotten just about all the systems understood, I can use them and all that. The actually flying of this helicopter is extremely hard. I watch all these videos of people doing strafing runs and what not all steadily, the whole time it seems like the helicopter wants to go the other way! I was doing a convoy escort mission, my guys came under fire and I could hardly do anything, couldn't turn much without the rotors falling off or flipping over and when I became lined up it was momentarily because the helo seems to be randomly trimmed to the left or right, so I'm just fighting it, wobbling all over the sky. Maybe a better explanation of the autopilots? I haven't learned much about how those help me. The YT videos don't pertain to my situation as they never even acknowledge the helicopter trying to kill them.

 

Sometimes I wonder if this helicopter was just created to kill the pilots lol.

 

Any good reading material out there I can have a link to or something? I understand the ?concepts of helicopters and all that stuff, I flew the Dodosim on FS2004 for years. Thanks!

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Been a while since I flew it (will get back into helos bigtime with new maps!) so this is from the top of my head and might be a little inaccurate, but

 

- Make sure you turn on director control (the button next to 4 ap channels) when you maneuver!!! I mapped it to my stick. If you don't turn it on you will be fighting the autopilot.

- Have all autopilot channels on except for altitude hold

- Learn how the trimming system works, you can't be effective without it and it won't take long to figure out. Plenty of good posts on it here on the forums, and plenty of youtube vids.

- Take some time to properly set up your controls, with deadzones, curvature etc. Takes a little time to find the sweet spots but when you do you'll be much better for it.

- Watch your speed, especially before you turn. Rotor strikes are common if you're too fast.

 

EDIT: As for learning helo principles of flight I actually suggest you do it in the Huey. Once you master that, flying the black shark is a breeze :)


Edited by mjeh
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turn onthe autopilots stabilizer channels (srry can't remember the English name) and practice by hovering close to ground, and try taxiing around the base, because it has wheels you can do this.

Also, remember that it is harder to fly with many heavy bombs and missile, the normal loadout of 40x С-8Ком (S-8KOM) and Вихрь/Vikhr and is fine. What mjeh said is about the rest of it.

 

There are some good videos explaining the physics of the rotor blades, and how to not kill the blades... just don't go over the speed limit of the helicopter with your set loadout, and don't pull to many G forces and you will be fine.

 

More than anything the Ka-50 takes practice, but it is definitely worth it as is a very good attack chopper and extremely fun :thumbup:

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...

- Make sure you turn on director control (the button next to 4 ap channels) when you maneuver!!! I mapped it to my stick. If you don't turn it on you will be fighting the autopilot.

- Have all autopilot channels on except for altitude hold

...

 

Doesn't turning the flight director on effectively turn off the heading and altitude channels on the AP, while turning on the flight director cues on the HUD? If so, as I see it you are better off just turning the heading and altitude channels off, unless you actually want the flight director cues. I suppose it depends why you are manoeuvring - to follow the preplanned course, or to engage a target etc.

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Doesn't turning the flight director on effectively turn off the heading and altitude channels on the AP, while turning on the flight director cues on the HUD? If so, as I see it you are better off just turning the heading and altitude channels off, unless you actually want the flight director cues. I suppose it depends why you are manoeuvring - to follow the preplanned course, or to engage a target etc.

 

No.

 

The flight director not only shows the cues on the HUD, but it also turns off the pitch and roll commands, while KEEPING ON the basic stabilization system.

 

Here are a few scenarios:

 

Bank, Pitch, Yaw channels on- NO FD

--When you trim, you are commanding the aircraft to hold the specific, pitch and roll angle, and heading degree. The autopilot will do everything it can to hold those specific parameters. If you move the stick, the autopilot will fight you in order to get back to the original parameters you set.

 

Bank, Pitch, Yaw channels on- FD ON

--Now when the FD is on, whichever channels you have selected will still have the SAS or short term stability augmentation. Basically the autopilot will no longer try to maintain the parameters you set when you trim, but the autopilot still has the stability system on, which will aid in the control of the helicopter, and keep it from doing random things and oscillations.

 

It will fly similar to the Mi8 with the stability system on in this stage

 

 

Now when you have ALL channels off

--The helicopter is "raw". There is no stability system helping to control the aircraft. This is the hardest to control. THis is similar to flying the Mi8 with the stabilization system turned off.

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For someone learning to fly the ka50 i recommend them to turn on the FD, with the pitch, roll, yaw channels.

 

This way you have stabilization, but the autopilot wont fight you. Once you are comfortable with it in this stage, now you can turn the fd off.

 

Now the key thing to know is when you hold the trimmer, it flies the same as when the FD is on. The stabilization system is on, but the autopilot wont fight to maintain, pitch, roll, yaw.

 

It is when you release the trim, that you are now telling the autopilot to hold the specific parameters.

 

 

 

I hold the trim while maneuvering, and when I have bank, pitch, and yaw i wnat the helicopter to fly at, I will then release the trim button, and the Autopilot will hold those parameters

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I hold the trim while maneuvering, and when I have bank, pitch, and yaw i wnat the helicopter to fly at, I will then release the trim button, and the Autopilot will hold those parameters

 

This. I don't bother with FD. Every time I go to maneuver, whether it be combat or a simple change of heading, I hold in the trim button on my flight stick. Once the maneuver ends and the aircraft is pointed where you want it, release trimmer.

Someday we'll look back on all this and plow into a parked car.

 

 

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And a 46" LCD at 1920x1080 to enjoy the goodness :joystick: :pilotfly:

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There are many good ways to learn the Ka-50.

 

But none of them is quick, like done in 2 weeks, also not in 2 month unless you quit your job and fly from 9 to 5 for weeks and weeks ;)

 

Take your time and set yourself some landmarks what to learn on that day and then do exactly that and redo things you did last training, so you remember them.

 

I am flying it about a year now with at least 10h per week, sometimes more like 20h per week

and I am still learning this or that with the deeper systems you don't actually need for the casual mission but are nice to know how to deal with.

 

Take your time, it is also nice to know that there still is so much to discover and learn, like the A-10C I got a year ago and still have no clue how it works.... haha maybe this winter I will bite the apple with the hog. Then there are the UH-1H and Mi-8 and the whole FC-3 pack followed by the new stuff, F-86, Dora, 21, 109.... years to have fun with.

 

Bit

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 3x 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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I hear that BitMaster.

I started with Black Shark in 2009, flew it in Game Mode for a couple weeks and took off and crashed about 10 times in Sim Mode before parking it.

Then I tried the P-"Fitty"1 for a couple months .. thoroughly enjoyed that. Even after flying OTHER Mustang Sims/Games (like Aces High 2), I found there was a huge learning curve due to DCS's realism.

 

I have been away from all of it now for quite a while. But 2 weeks ago I finally decided "It's Time" to learn the Black Shark (BS-2 now). It has been a "trying experience" to say the least .. but it's coming ... or at least some of it is. I can actually take off, hover, land and do a few things without crashing.

 

And I still have the A10A and A10C Modules to try out ... some day. In fact, the WartHog is my favorite aircraft. BUT I won't start trying to learn it until I can call myself "relatively" proficient with the Black Shark.

 

So like you ... I have Many Years of Fun ahead of me without ever having to pay another cent. Of course, who knows what other Modules I might invest in in the meantime.

I just hope they are all still relevant and functional in a couple years (i.e. with future versions of MS Windows and things like that).

SnowTiger:joystick:

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And I still have the A10A and A10C Modules to try out ... some day. In fact, the WartHog is my favorite aircraft. BUT I won't start trying to learn it until I can call myself "relatively" proficient with the Black Shark.

 

You could actually fly the a-10 at the same time as the BS, there is not much you can apply to the hog and vice versa as far as its flight characteristics. They are completely air frames and handling.

DCS: A10C Warthog JTAC coordinate entry training mission http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/99424/

 

DCS: Blackshark 2 interactive training missions http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84612

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I agree with what you are saying BigfootMSR with the exception of one thing.

That is, my learning capacity (or rather, lack thereof !!).

I find it hard to keep up with that many buttons, commands, keystrokes, stick profiles, weapon and navigation systems etc.

They are definitely uniquely different aircraft.

 

On the other hand, being the typical sporadic shopper that I am, I ended up adding the Huey to my list of Modules tonight. At least it's still a helicopter and isn't nearly as complex with regards to controls, quantity of buttons, etc etc like the Warthog is by comparison.

SnowTiger:joystick:

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I agree with what you are saying BigfootMSR with the exception of one thing.

That is, my learning capacity (or rather, lack thereof !!).

I find it hard to keep up with that many buttons, commands, keystrokes, stick profiles, weapon and navigation systems etc.

They are definitely uniquely different aircraft.

 

On the other hand, being the typical sporadic shopper that I am, I ended up adding the Huey to my list of Modules tonight. At least it's still a helicopter and isn't nearly as complex with regards to controls, quantity of buttons, etc etc like the Warthog is by comparison.

 

For me, it helped to do 2 readings of the flight manual.. and this goes for the A10c and KA50.

 

First read through, make it brief, just to get an idea of the what the different systems are and what the different capabilities are.

 

Then thoroughly study on the second read through. I would sit in a parked jet, and read through everything, while actuating the different switches, systems, MFD elements, etc. This does take a long time, but I always felt I learned WHY we do things, and not just memorize steps. Once I went through this once, yes there were still times I'd be referring to the manual, tutorials, or other sources, but I always felt I had a solid foundation of each aircraft.

 

Just what worked for me. The manuals have been an absolute KEY.

 

I think the F18 will be worse than the a10c. Air refueling, carrier ops, SEAD, air to air and air to ground radar, SEAD. Should be fun:D

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Ever since they sell everything with a PDF instead of a book that I can read "offline" like a man I am lacking behind RTFM.

 

I got most DCS manuals fully printed, many thousand pages, after I did it on a very large HP LaserJet ( size of a Fiat 500 ) I asked myself "How am I gonna handle that much paper ?"

 

TBH I still haven't found an answer, the 50 kilo paperwork is underneath my desk in 3 boxes each 2000 papers and I would really like to have that in a proper book, I would even pay for it !

 

 

I basically know the Hog so far, done all the tutorials multiple times etc... I just don't dedicate myself too it yet, that is what I mean. I am exploiting the Ka down to the bone and really really started to love the Frogfoot Su-25T and it's SEAD capability. Done that for 2 month almost every other day, great immersion into the flow of the mission. Lately I used it for some Laser guided rockets but it can't stand a chance to the Ka when it comes to take out some tanks and trucks and SAM/AAA sites along the valley, where it is hard to aim in a plane and such, the Ka has one big disadvantage if you use her wrong and fly high, no RWR, stay LOW and crawl as soon as you enter red zone, look look and look again, then fly another 500m forward and look look and look again.

 

If you see them first, you can kill 12 hard targets from 10km away with Vikhrs and soft targets until winchester on the gun/rockets. The Vikhr in manual override goes way above 7km. I hit at 9-10km with 9 out of 10 when 500m or higher. 8km goes with any height in manual mode.

 

Fly a lot, on VA Server for example you can add drop tanks to make her heavy, so you get the feel for battle weight if you fly on non-armorment servers.

 

You should know that the Laser is only good for 1 set of Vikhrs and will fail somewhere in your next 12-set of Vikhrs. You also cannot repair the Laser alone, you have to have some damage, or create some, so the Laser is replaced during repair. Let the laser cool down between shots if in no hurry and don't click on every bush to measure the distance just for fun, it will heat up your laser and wear it out a few rockets earlier compared to when you have an eye on it's temperature.

 

Check Devrim's mod for the english HuD and temp gauge in HuD, it's on ED website. So you have a clue where the temp is and don't fry it too soon.

 

Other than that, HAVE FUN ! it's a cool CHOPPA :)

 

Bit

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 3x 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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"You should know that the Laser is only good for 1 set of Vikhrs and will fail somewhere in your next 12-set of Vikhrs. You also cannot repair the Laser alone, you have to have some damage, or create some, so the Laser is replaced during repair. Let the laser cool down between shots if in no hurry and don't click on every bush to measure the distance just for fun, it will heat up your laser and wear it out a few rockets earlier compared to when you have an eye on it's temperature.

 

Check Devrim's mod for the english HuD and temp gauge in HuD, it's on ED website. So you have a clue where the temp is and don't fry it too soon."

 

 

BitMaster, I didn't know the Laser is good for limited use only. I fired off quite a few Vikhrs the other day and it seemed to be good for a long while. Didn't see any mention about watching the laser temp in the manual. And does the current default HUD shows the temp? Or only available in the mod? And does the mod simulate everything else on the default HUD? Thanks.

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No.

 

The flight director not only shows the cues on the HUD, but it also turns off the pitch and roll commands, while KEEPING ON the basic stabilization system.

 

Here are a few scenarios:

 

Bank, Pitch, Yaw channels on- NO FD

--When you trim, you are commanding the aircraft to hold the specific, pitch and roll angle, and heading degree. The autopilot will do everything it can to hold those specific parameters. If you move the stick, the autopilot will fight you in order to get back to the original parameters you set.

 

Bank, Pitch, Yaw channels on- FD ON

--Now when the FD is on, whichever channels you have selected will still have the SAS or short term stability augmentation. Basically the autopilot will no longer try to maintain the parameters you set when you trim, but the autopilot still has the stability system on, which will aid in the control of the helicopter, and keep it from doing random things and oscillations.

 

It will fly similar to the Mi8 with the stability system on in this stage

 

 

Now when you have ALL channels off

--The helicopter is "raw". There is no stability system helping to control the aircraft. This is the hardest to control. THis is similar to flying the Mi8 with the stabilization system turned off.

 

This is an awesome write-up and very nice summary. I will give this a try. Thanks for this; I learned something new! :)

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Gear: HP Reverb | JetPad FSE | MTX Sim Rig | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate (center) | VKB Gunfighter Mk.III w/ SCG-R Premium (side)

 

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"You should know that the Laser is only good for 1 set of Vikhrs and will fail somewhere in your next 12-set of Vikhrs. You also cannot repair the Laser alone, you have to have some damage, or create some, so the Laser is replaced during repair. Let the laser cool down between shots if in no hurry and don't click on every bush to measure the distance just for fun, it will heat up your laser and wear it out a few rockets earlier compared to when you have an eye on it's temperature.

 

Check Devrim's mod for the english HuD and temp gauge in HuD, it's on ED website. So you have a clue where the temp is and don't fry it too soon."

 

 

BitMaster, I didn't know the Laser is good for limited use only. I fired off quite a few Vikhrs the other day and it seemed to be good for a long while. Didn't see any mention about watching the laser temp in the manual. And does the current default HUD shows the temp? Or only available in the mod? And does the mod simulate everything else on the default HUD? Thanks.

 

 

 

The default HuD has no temp indicator, only Devrim's Mod delivers it.

 

You were really lucky to be able to fire 24-36 Vikhrs + the gun rounds with Laser accuracy without having the Laser fail... you were very very lucky.

 

There are many threads regarding the Laser Fail due to temperature.

 

 

Last night, for example, I killed 12 hard targets with Vikhrs and about another dozen with gun rounds before RTB to rearm/refuel. On the 2nd run, the laser failed about ⅓ through the armament and I had to kill another 5 or 10 trucks and BMPs with a straight forward gun in direct attack close combat. I survived but lost the rear of the Choppa, the hydraulics went bad and lots of beeps and bleeps...but it still flew and hammered it's rounds into any BMP or truck there was until I was 00/00 on the rounds and headed back ( 159th server ).

 

If the laser hadn't failed, I could have stayed 3.7km away, hit each of them without risking anything but but but..NO FUN haha

 

The Ka is already the #1 scorer on the servers, make it even better and only the SU-25T can somehow hold the water, if at all. The A-10C may look cool and fancy, but when it comes to kill rate, tempo and swiftness..it just fails. Hardly ever you see any A-10C with the high kill rate of a Ka or Su-25T.

 

 

Bit

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 3x 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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I agree completely with ff4life4. The key is studying the manual and understanding the subsystems and theory of operation. Just when you think you've mastered the bird, you learn to utilize another subsystem to great advantage; such as marking target enemy weapon range thresholds on your ABRIS.

 

Where controlling the airframe is concerned, I wasn't really good at it until I spent a whole day just doing funnel maneuvers around stationary objects (rotate around it while keeping the nose pointed at the object). This ingrained the muscle memory necessary to use the rudder, collective, and cyclic to compliment one another. As someone else said, fixed and rotor wing aircraft are very different, that's why the US Military very rarely rates people on both.. it's dangerous. It's similar to the contrast between playing the guitar and the drums; the guitar requires you to multitask, but with focus on the frets (fighter and sensors).. the drums require you to coordinate foot and hand movements to the point where you no longer perceive them as separate appendages (helo and cyclic/collective/rudder).

 

Concerning autopilot, I've started turning the heading AP off instead of using the flight director. I find that it provides me a more stable platform. I've bound the four AP buttons to my CMS hat on the WH HOTAS. If anyone is looking for a much more professional and intuitive WH HOTAS setup, see Analysis Results: KA-50 and WH HOTAS

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I also agree that the Manual(s) are indispensable.

Sure ... it's allot of reading. But the detailed documentation and descriptions used in all of the DCS manuals is one of the very best ways to clearly understand how specific things work.

 

The rest is putting that knowledge into practice and then Practice, Practice, Practice .. and then do it some more.

 

Just one more Important Note for "LampDude" and anyone else trying to get used to the TRIM and Auto-Pilot Modes (which usually go hand-in-hand), it is Important to Note that not only must you Center your Cyclic (Joystick) within the .5 Seconds, but you Must Also Center your Rudder Pedals (or twist grip) within the same time period.

I crashed MANY times thinking it was my HOTAS (which does still have serious issues) only to learn that my pedals were ever so slightly off centered because my toe was always touching them.

I did two things to correct this issue.

1) I created an ever so slight Dead Zone for my Pedals and

2) Even with the above mentioned dead zone, I still Complete Let Go of my Stick and Pedals all that the same time.

 

That said, this got a friend of mine laughing a bit too much for my liking (hehe).

He said I look like a Cat that has just been scared by something or a Cat that is clinging to a wall .... Feet and arms all splayed out !

 

Ya ... it's a bit dramatic to be sure, but I am sure that I will learn to do it more inconspicuously and just as effectively (hopefully sooner rather that later).

SnowTiger:joystick:

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So Lampdude, we haven't heard back from you in this Thread.

Have you found what you were looking for (either in this thread or elsewhere) ?

Are you starting to get the hang of it ?

 

A follow up post would be great.

And if you are still having issues, let me know (you are welcome to PM me). I might have already dealt with those things you are now dealing with. That said, I still have TONS to learn.

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SnowTiger:joystick:

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