JorgeIII Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) (To any moderator, please correct the title, change Wing for Wind, thanks.) There is something really bad with IAS instrument and Flying physics with wind. I was trying the Mig in bad weather conditions and when turned to final I found IAS was about 300 km/h but the plane was maneuvering as it had an IAS of 380 km/h. Pitot error I thought at first. But no, it looked as I had heavy head wind and IAS was showing a speed similiar to ground speed without taking into account the wind. Thinking there was a bug with IAS instrument not calculating wind speed I made a mission with clear weather and 20 to 50 m/s (40 to 100 knots) wind to see what happens. As expected with this new bug, trying to land with head wind of 30 m/s I was on final with 250 km/h ground speed and 250 km/h IAS when it should be arround 350 km/h IAS. OK, confirmed the bug. Then I tried to land in the opposite runway, with tail wind, expecting a ground speed and IAS of 450 km/h (when IAS should be 350 km/h). Something very strange happened then, the plane was maneuvering again as it had heavy head wind, but with tail wind! On final and with 30m/s wind from behind It was approaching steady at 200 km/h ground speed and 150 km/h IAS!! Made another mission with more wind, 50m/s this time. The plane could almost maintain a hover with head wind with and IAS of 30 to 150 km/h and again the strangest thing: the plane could maintain the same hover with tail wind!!! (So actually flying with negative IAS). With wind coming from the sides the same hover but with great roll instability (hovering over a same place, with heavy side wind and withot any latteral displacement of the Mig). There is something wrong with flying physics and wind. This is easy to reproduce but I'm attaching 2 tracks just in case. For now, don't trust your IAS in a windy day and don't fly in stormy weather.MIG 21 IAS Error and strage behaviour with wind Hover.trkMIG 21 IAS Error and strage behaviour with wind.trk Edited October 6, 2014 by JorgeIII AKA TANGO-117. DCS Modules: most of them, proficiency: only a few at a time. The most crucial aspect of a simulator is its realistic physics and precise aerodynamics, accurately reflecting all flight conditions.
Corrigan Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 There's something funky with wind interaction, yeah. There's another bug report about the plane not responding correctly to crosswind. Win10 x64 | SSDs | i5 2500K @ 4.4 GHz | 16 GB RAM | GTX 970 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek pedals | TIR5
JorgeIII Posted October 5, 2014 Author Posted October 5, 2014 I think I red that, it looks like any wind interaction with the flight model is heavily bugged, being more obvious at extreme windy conditions (like being able to fly BACKWARDS into the wind...). AKA TANGO-117. DCS Modules: most of them, proficiency: only a few at a time. The most crucial aspect of a simulator is its realistic physics and precise aerodynamics, accurately reflecting all flight conditions.
eyusuf Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 (To any moderator, please correct the title, change Wing for Wind, thanks.) There is something really bad with IAS instrument and Flying physics with wind. I was trying the Mig in bad weather conditions and when turned to final I found IAS was about 300 km/h but the plane was maneuvering as it had an IAS of 380 km/h. Pitot error I thought at first. But no, it looked as I had heavy head wind and IAS was showing a speed similiar to ground speed without taking into account the wind. Thinking there was a bug with IAS instrument not calculating wind speed I made a mission with clear weather and 20 to 50 m/s (40 to 100 knots) wind to see what happens. As expected with this new bug, trying to land with head wind of 30 m/s I was on final with 250 km/h ground speed and 250 km/h IAS when it should be arround 350 km/h IAS. OK, confirmed the bug. Then I tried to land in the opposite runway, with tail wind, expecting a ground speed and IAS of 450 km/h (when IAS should be 350 km/h). Something very strange happened then, the plane was maneuvering again as it had heavy head wind, but with tail wind! On final and with 30m/s wind from behind It was approaching steady at 200 km/h ground speed and 150 km/h IAS!! Made another mission with more wind, 50m/s this time. The plane could almost maintain a hover with head wind with and IAS of 30 to 150 km/h and again the strangest thing: the plane could maintain the same hover with tail wind!!! (So actually flying with negative IAS). With wind coming from the sides the same hover but with great roll instability. There is something wrong with flying physics and wind. This is easy to reproduce but I'm attaching 2 tracks just in case. For now, don't trust your IAS in a windy day and don't fly in stormy weather. Thanks for the post man! :lol: This nerf (and please dont tell me this slipped pass the developers) I have to see. :helpsmilie: 3
159th_Viper Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 (and please dont tell me this slipped pass the developers) Obviously not: It was included on purpose, just because......:doh: By Gawd man, mistakes happen, even forgetting for a moment that the Mig release is a Beta so yes, it obviously slipped past the Devs and us testers. So what? It will be attended to, obviously. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
JorgeIII Posted October 6, 2014 Author Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) The point of the post is to make the Devs aware of this big flaw in the flight model. It actually can hover like a Helicopter. The problem is much bigger than the error with climbing speed and cruise speed at medium to high altitude (the module cant mach, by far, the real manual data). Its not necessary here to make clear the significance of wind and climate in flying physics and in a simulator like DCS. Flying with strong wind makes the actual AFM feel like a pre-alfa testing FM, not like a small beta bug, try it yourself. I hope this din't "slipped past" the Devs and that it's some kind of new bug with the last patch and is easy to fix. I hope that the person who developed the flying physics for the Mig took the wind variable into his calculations. Edited October 6, 2014 by JorgeIII AKA TANGO-117. DCS Modules: most of them, proficiency: only a few at a time. The most crucial aspect of a simulator is its realistic physics and precise aerodynamics, accurately reflecting all flight conditions.
Esac_mirmidon Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 They could forget your posts. Terrible, isn'it? " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
eyusuf Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Obviously not: It was included on purpose, just because......:doh: By Gawd man, mistakes happen, even forgetting for a moment that the Mig release is a Beta so yes, it obviously slipped past the Devs and us testers. So what? It will be attended to, obviously. Oh it was a mistake. Well hell then, my apologies to the mistake makers. :doh:
159th_Viper Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 ....my apologies to the mistake makers....... About time. Now how about you keeping it constructive from hereon in? Either that or keep quiet: Whichever option you prefer :thumbup: Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
alfredo_laredo Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) I can confirm this bug. I am able to hover the mig with wind set to 50m/s either headwind or tailwind. Either Clean Aircraft Or Gear/flaps/speed brakes. The IAS can go easily to 0 but when G.S. reaches 0 (in F2 outside view) the ariplane inmediatly stalls and drops the nose. Stall Speed should be linked to IAS, not TAS not G.S. now.. further testing, Standard ISA, Wind at 50m/s (97knots) At Power 100% no afterburner I get this numbers Tailwind IAS 470 knots G.S. 669 Knots thats 199 knots of difference wich seems a little too much Headwind IAS 504 knots G.S. 506 Knots G.s. Shoudnt be higher that TAS! on a headwind situation Edited October 7, 2014 by alfredo_laredo A.K.A. Timon -117th- in game
TurboHog Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 It looks like the Mig-21 is either unaffected by wind (at relatively low wind speeds) or shows some very unrealistic behaviour (at very high wind speeds) 'Frett'
JorgeIII Posted October 10, 2014 Author Posted October 10, 2014 The bug seems to be already fixed in the beta release, IAS indicator is OK and the wind "push" the plane in the right direction. Will do more testing. Thanks Novak & LN team! AKA TANGO-117. DCS Modules: most of them, proficiency: only a few at a time. The most crucial aspect of a simulator is its realistic physics and precise aerodynamics, accurately reflecting all flight conditions.
iFoxRomeo Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 Could you crosscheck this problem with another Aircraft? User "Rodd" noticed something similar but with the A-10 http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122387 Spoiler PC Specs: Ryzen 9 5900X, 3080ti, 64GB RAM, Oculus Quest 3
NoJoe Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Oh wow, there is indeed some weird wind effect going on there... I'm attaching a track of a short flight in the MiG, starting from a runway takeoff at Batumi. The wind was set to 309 degrees at 50 m/s. The airspeed indicator reads very strangely. After takeoff I do a mostly level turn; watch as the airspeed indicator goes way up to 900 kph as I'm facing into the wind, then all the way down to ~250 kph as I turn roughly downwind. The plane's responsiveness changed accordingly. For the ending I just let it stall awkwardly into the Black Sea. :D I do think there is something strange here.WackyWind.trk
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