ED F-4 Phantom

[NineLine]

by the way: remember what happened with Kinney and his F-35 - very sad too :cry:

 

The darker side of this community did more to destroy Kinney and his DCS aspirations than any license agreements...

[NineLine]

what i cant understand is why veao needs boeing ?

veao needs available (declassified) documents, a skyhawk pilot, maybe a skyhawk engineer and/or skyhawk ground crew

nobody wants a full-full authentic, classified military a-4 simulation, seems boeing least

 

But to do it ethically they want to have Boeing's blessing... whether they could do with with or without Boeing's agreement is a moot point.

[Art-J]

what i cant understand is why veao needs boeing ?

veao needs available (declassified) documents, a skyhawk pilot, maybe a skyhawk engineer and/or skyhawk ground crew

nobody wants a full-full authentic, classified military a-4 simulation, seems boeing least

 

That's the point, the level of authenticity is the key problem here (plus money, obviously).

 

If they wanted to build an FC3-level A-4 and share it for free then maybe they could (maybe, yet not for certain, because as numerous examples from racing sims show, even non-commercial modders have been getting "cease and desist" requests from manufacturers lately).

 

But if they wanted to build a detailed plane with all systems modelled (as most of DCS players would like to see) and actually sell this product then there's no way they could do it without agreement with producer/copyright holder. So they tried, but looks like money was an issue.

[Raven434th]

There's an f-4 in the game already, all it needs is a cockpit...whats the problem? Thirdwire did it.

[NineLine]

There's an f-4 in the game already, all it needs is a cockpit...whats the problem? Thirdwire did it.

 

There yeah go... problem solved right? :doh:

[outlawal2]

There's an f-4 in the game already, all it needs is a cockpit...whats the problem? Thirdwire did it.

 

 

As has been stated repeatedly, to complete an AFM (which is what VEAO wants to do) the systems require signoff from the copyright holder.

 

And depending on who the copyright holder is, some of those folks are quite nasty about protecting their copyright no matter HOW it is used..

 

To do things right and to be completely ethical (and thus safe from any litigation) you need approval from the owners..

 

Besides, turn it around.. If you put all of your blood sweat and tears into a plane, would you want an outsider coming in and making money on your investment? (And for those of you that are about to say "Sure wouldn't bother me" I cry Bullshit...

 

The same folks adamant about "I want it and I want it now" would be the loudest whiners about "Hey that is mine and you shouldn't use it.."

[Raven434th]

Is that what thirdwire did?

[NineLine]

Is that what thirdwire did?

 

You would have to ask them.

[NRG-Vampire]

The darker side of this community did more to destroy Kinney and his DCS aspirations than any license agreements...

 

yes, i agree :cry: and that community also destroyed the idea of BeczL's WWII ground vehicle models too :doh: :mad:

they must burn in Dante's deepest hell :devil_2:

 

But to do it ethically they want to have Boeing's blessing... whether they could do with with or without Boeing's agreement is a moot point.

 

i want to have that blessing as well

but what if they dont give a bless, any bless

or what if boeing or lockheed/skunkworks wants "too much" ?

end of story ?

Edited November 12, 2014 by NRG-Vampire

[NineLine]

yes, i agree :cry: and that community also destroyed the idea of Beczl's WWII ground vehicle models too :doh: :mad:

they must burn in Dante's deepest hell :devil_2:

 

 

 

i want to have that blessing as well

but what if they dont give a bless, any bless

or what if boeing or lockheed/skunkworks wants "too much" ?

end of story ?

 

As we are seeing aircraft related to those companies already in DCS I dont think that will be too much of an issue.

[outlawal2]

yes, i agree :cry: and that community also destroyed the idea of BeczL's WWII ground vehicle models too :doh: :mad:

they must burn in Dante's deepest hell :devil_2:

 

 

 

i want to have that blessing as well

but what if they dont give a bless, any bless

or what if boeing or lockheed/skunkworks wants "too much" ?

end of story ?

 

That depends on how much work a 3rd party dev is willing to throw away for free... If you are coding for a living, are you going to spend maybe 2 or more YEARS working on a module not knowing if the copyright holder is going to shut you down at a given moment? I know there is no way in Hell I would take that kind of risk and no right-minded developer will either.. They would go out of business that way... You have to put your eggs in the basket that allows you to realize a return on your investment... Wishing and hoping is a flawed strategy at best.. And really isn't a strategy at all..

[Pman]

I'm not going to get into a massive debate about IP rights and what people see as right or wrong. To be honest the only opinion that we can take with any weight is that our of our lawyers.

 

Let me re-iterate one point about the A-4, It was McDonnell Douglas' lawyers who we had long discussions with (although they are owned by Boeing now they do not manage the IP rights) and we could have had an agreement with them but they would not grant us a licence under terms we deemed economically viable when other development costs were accounted for, if another 3rd party is willing to agree to their terms then good luck to them but we couldn't make the business model work.

 

It is not a matter of opinion if you need a licence from an aircraft manufacturer if you are simulating in depth systems, you do. Someone was paid to create that work on behalf of say Boeing therefore they own the design, when you copy (not an artistic impression when it comes to simulating fuel systems etc etc) you need the IP holders permission.

 

Its as simple as that, even taking aside tradenames and design of airframe

 

If you need one for FC3 or not is still a matter of contention under UK law (which by the way is the only law we care about as we are based in the UK) depending on how much system modelling you do in the back ground.

 

It is VEAO policy that we will not even entertain a project where there is no licence or waiver.

 

Pman