Weaker landing gear after lastest update ?

[Kenan]

Doesn't the manual say it's better to land with higher speed then slow and say, loose momentum? I land at around 350-380 km/h and as long as the touchdown decent rate is around 2-3m/s, gear and tires should be fine. At lower speed it's actually harder to maintain proper decent rate and that may cause harder landings / landing gear damage.

[Dr_Arrow]

Doesn't the manual say it's better to land with higher speed then slow and say, loose momentum? I land at around 350-380 km/h and as long as the touchdown decent rate is around 2-3m/s, gear and tires should be fine. At lower speed it's actually harder to maintain proper decent rate and that may cause harder landings / landing gear damage.

 

landing with such parameters would most probably end your career in east block air-force unless it was an emergency :) I am saying that because we have one such aircraft, which served only as a teaching tool after such landing. The gear can withstand such landing, but its fuselage got slightly bent putting the aircraft out of service. Touchdown speed should be maximally 330 km/h and descent rate should be lower than 1 m/s. You should normally flare at 1 meter above ground and let the aircraft gently touchdown. This is what the pilot's manual says and what I witnessed when I saw Mig-21s land - I haven't tested it yet in the sim, so good luck :thumbup:

[xaoslaad]

Wow 1 m/s. Ok, well thats something to aim for. Certainly slower descent than ive aimed for, ill have to give that some practice.

[Kenan]

landing with such parameters would most probably end your career in east block air-force unless it was an emergency :) I am saying that because we have one such aircraft, which served only as a teaching tool after such landing. The gear can withstand such landing, but its fuselage got slightly bent putting the aircraft out of service. Touchdown speed should be maximally 330 km/h and descent rate should be lower than 1 m/s. You should normally flare at 1 meter above ground and let the aircraft gently touchdown. This is what the pilot's manual says and what I witnessed when I saw Mig-21s land - I haven't tested it yet in the sim, so good luck :thumbup:

 

Thanks for the interesting info! Ok. then, even if the sim kinda 'tolerates' higher speeds, I'll follow your advice next time I go for landing. :)

[Dr_Arrow]

Here is a nice video illustrating some smooth Mig-21MFs landings - notice how gentle the actual touchdowns are:

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

With the first MiG landing (the camouflaged one) in the vid that Dr Arrow mentioned, you see a bit of wobble on touch-down. NICE! MIG isn't really hard to land. I generally decent around 350km/h. This way, you can see the runway pretty clear and the airplane isn't too hard to keep in the air. I don't know what the actual touch-down speed is in my landings since I am too busy flaring (but not flaring too much, or the aircraft starts to climb again)

 

1m/s is still around 180 Feet/minute. Wich doesn't really sound terrible precise. But it is hard to read the VSI in the MiG.

 

What is the recomended nose-up attitude for touching down?

[Dr_Arrow]

With the first MiG landing (the camouflaged one) in the vid that Dr Arrow mentioned, you see a bit of wobble on touch-down. NICE! MIG isn't really hard to land. I generally decent around 350km/h. This way, you can see the runway pretty clear and the airplane isn't too hard to keep in the air. I don't know what the actual touch-down speed is in my landings since I am too busy flaring (but not flaring too much, or the aircraft starts to climb again)

 

1m/s is still around 180 Feet/minute. Wich doesn't really sound terrible precise. But it is hard to read the VSI in the MiG.

 

What is the recomended nose-up attitude for touching down?

 

The recommended nose-up attitude for touching down should be between 9-14 degrees.

[ViFF]

I concur. The landing gear is much weaker in the open beta of 1.2.12.

 

Using same technique, landing speed and descent speed at touch down I am getting bent and collapsed main gears much more often then in 1.2.11.

 

I hope this will be addressed quickly.

[scaflight]

Is there a set AoA that we can establish, after which we only touch the throttle until flare? What does the actual manual say in this regard? (AoA gauge sure is a ton more visible than the VSI)

[Aginor]

What continues to astound me about this thread is that so many people insist on landing above 350km/h and 1m/s

 

the AoA is automatically right if you are flying flaps full out at 290km/h without sinking.

 

Touchdown is done at 270km/h with under 1m/s vertical. I actually flare to zero, and then watch the ground instead of the VVI, since it is too inaccurate. I land with 0.5 or so. If I have less than 1000 kilos of fuel left the gear won't break, except there is wind maybe.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Resuming:

 

Maximum landing weight.

[Fishbreath]

the AoA is automatically right if you are flying flaps full out at 290km/h without sinking.

 

You need to give a weight to turn a speed into an AoA. 290kmh with full fuel and three drop tanks is way different than 290kmh at maximum landing weight.

 

You are right, though, that in general, flight sim landings are cringeworthy.

[scaflight]

Is there a universal AoA that reflects optimal descent? (I guess I'm just restating my above question :))

[Aginor]

None I know of.

 

@Fishbreath. You don't land with full fuel tanks. If you do it you will most likely break something.

 

EDIT: actually I did assume y'all were aware that you shouldn't land with more than a ton of fuel. That's why I didn't mention the weight.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Aginor

[bart]

I've just been up in the MiG on the VA server, and had no issues with the landing gear at all.

 

Fuel less than 1000 litres and touch down speed around 300-320 I think (tad fast but it worked......so did the brake chute :) )

[ttaylor0024]

Landed with 100L of fuel earlier today at 300kph and 3m/s... Didn't have enough fuel to taxi all the way to my parking space, but I didn't brake the gear!

[cquail]

Following the previously mentioned advice I can land the Mig again. You just have to touch down very very gently...1-2m/s range. :)

[xaoslaad]

Yes, I can seem to do it pretty well now. The 1 m/s seems to be really key. Actually getting 1 m/s was really hard until I figured out how I could do it more readily. I made several takes of this just trying not to trip on my words and didn't screw up t he gear once. It is a nice change. I made a video talking out how I figured out to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmQqzGqfeJ8&feature=youtu.be

 

Basically my 'secret' is excessive nose up trim.

Edited December 5, 2014 by xaoslaad

[cquail]

The other trick is to make sure you keep some power on until you touch down. Flaring and then chopping the power will smack you down hard.

[xaoslaad]

Yes. I guess I didn't mention that in my video, except to say I was throttling down after I landed. But ya, I also keep power going until I am down.

[Fishbreath]

@Fishbreath. You don't land with full fuel tanks. If you do it you will most likely break something.

 

It's still plenty doable, it's just very touchy when you get over about 1500L of fuel. Descent rate is the most important thing to watch (as low as possible), followed by touchdown speed (<330kmh or so; I haven't tested exactly when the tires pop). AoA is a secondary concern; it's hard to smack the MiG's tail even with a steep landing.

 

That said, a target AoA rather than a target weight and airspeed gives you a lot more information about how to construct a good approach if you have to land above landing weight. For those who are asking, I went back and looked at some of my MiG landings. A 350kmh approach with 700L of fuel is about 7-8 degrees AoA on the gauge, and a 290kmh touchdown is 10-11. If you're heavy, that approach profile will put you over the threshold fast, but the MiG bleeds speed fast in a flare at approach power, and between the brake chute and the brakes, you can afford to eat up a lot of runway before you touch down.

[ttaylor0024]

Honestly, I would completely disregard AOA altogether when it comes to landing in the MiG-21. AOA is very important when operating near stall, such as pulling G and flying slowly, however without the AOA Indexer like in most aircraft to tell you the your optimal speed for landing in relation to your speed. For example, you could be flying 8 degree AOA at 290kph or 350kph and have would have drastically different descent rates.

 

Personally, what I do until I can learn the sight picture for the flare is come over the threshold at 320-330kph, and watch the vertical speed to keep it below 2m/s (1m/s or less is my goal) and you could easily land at nearly any weight. You burn up a little more runway, however with the parachute you will be fine. Easily touchdown within the first 3000ft though. Keep power in until your wheels touch, then once they do cut power and hold the nose off to avoid smashing your nose into the ground.

[flappybird]

My landing skills are much to be desired. Sometimes on a soft landing I blow a strut. not sure why, I was within 1 to 3 decent rate speed 320 -297ish. Sometimes I pull off a great landing and take off and repeat with the same success other days no so much. But I did enjoy this little vid I found of Mig21's landing on a highway! enjoy.

 

Update: after reading all of the posts in this thread and all of the great tactics. I adjusted my weight (Less Gas!!!!) and reduced my starting altitude closer to 600 so my approach is much smoother, and I can get a better hold of my speed. Just tested this out and didn't even smoke the tires LOL!

 

Edited February 2, 2015 by flappybird