[OPEN] "Mk 108 is weak" thread

[JST]

You know the aircraft is still in beta for one thing, also what color were the tracers on the cannon, was there tracers on the cannon? I always thought the used the guns for tracking where they were shooting and that cannon shells didnt have tracers, but I could be wrong... I could be thinking of something else.

 

And this has been discussed in their respective topics. Just one example below:

 

 

3 cm Minengeschoss Leuchtspur mit Zerleger (day tracer) / 3 cm Minengeschoss Glimmspur mit Zerleger (night tracer)

 

Mineshell with tracer, fuzed with ZZ1589 B. After firing the tracer ignites, allowing the pilot to observe the flight path of the shell. Day and night versions were available, the latter to prevent the pilot (who had his eyes adjusted to night) being blinded by the fiercer day tracers. The shell is coloured yellow overall, with a 5 mm wide green band just under the fuze, meaning self destruct. Just above the driving band is a light or dark red 5 mm wide band, the light red meaning (fierce burning) daytracer, dark red meaning (low visibility) night tracer. Explosive charge exists of 73 grams HA41 and 3 grams of nitropenta (pink core under the fuze). Weight of the shell : 330 +/- 8 grams.

 

 

 

But my bigest problem is you can't tell if you get hits with the 108.On ww2 guncam footage you can see a puff of smoke. As far as i can tell only the HEI make a flash.With the m-geschoss there is no sign of a hit.

 

Note that the current belt ingame is Mineshell/Incendiary. The former does show a flash of explosion, while the incendiary leaves behind a trail of smoke most often.

[gavagai]

Multiplayer tracks are auto-magically saved in Saved Games/DCS/Tracks/Multiplayer

 

Cool! But I don't seem to have any tracks from 2015?:joystick:

[NineLine]

Also with Edge around the corner, I'm pretty sure adding better effects is on their to-do list.

 

About the cannon rounds not having tracers, I'm 99% sure most of the pilots would chose to leave them out because of the low amount of ammo available for cannons.

At high altitudes (when engaging bomber groups for example) the red hot rounds will trail vapour anyway.

 

Not to mention tracers were a two way street, meaning they also showed gunners on bombers where the rounds were coming from...

Edited January 2, 2015 by NineLine

[otto]

 

Note that the current belt ingame is Mineshell/Incendiary. The former does show a flash of explosion, while the incendiary leaves behind a trail of smoke most often.

 

I haven't seen something even remotely resembling what i see in this gif you posted.

 

Look at my pics at post 70 the shell hits the tail section and ... nothing.

Or at post 72 above.No indication of hit. That is what i see.

 

Edited January 2, 2015 by otto

[JST]

I haven't seen something even remotely resembling what i see in this gif you posted.

 

Look at my pics at post 70 the shell hits the tail section and ... nothing.

Or at post 72 above.No indication of hit. That is what i see.

 

Yes, the effects are lacking, but the flash from the mineshell is still there, bad as it is.

 

[Solty]

I think they should add tracer for Mk108 so I could dodge it easier :P

 

On a serious note. We should be able to pick if we want tracers or not. Also, all impact effects need to be changed.

 

For example .50cal looks as if it was hitting a dusty powder instead of a full metal plane. The efect is wierd and there is not enough sparks coming out and too much dust (I can't call it smoke, its mushy and brown).

 

So it seems that we still have to "wait for edge".

[otto]

I think they should add tracer for Mk108 so I could dodge it easier :P

 

On a serious note. We should be able to pick if we want tracers or not. Also, all impact effects need to be changed.

 

For example .50cal looks as if it was hitting a dusty powder instead of a full metal plane. The efect is wierd and there is not enough sparks coming out and too much dust (I can't call it smoke, its mushy and brown).

 

So it seems that we still have to "wait for edge".

 

+ one million billion (On the funny side) .:thumbup:

[TXSailor]

Hey, in case we're still talking about this, this came up on another forum recently:

 

[jermin]

Frankly, if they can't get the firepower of these warbirds right, it is meaningless to play this game, no matter how awesomely this plane is graphically modeled. I start to regret backing DCS WWII. Maybe I should have chosen BoS.

Edited January 8, 2015 by jermin

[NineLine]

Frankly, if they can't get the firepower of these warbirds right, it is meaningless to play this game, no matter how awesomely this plane is graphically modeled. I start to regret backing DCS WWII. Maybe I should have chosen BoS.

 

You understand that this aircraft is in beta still right?

 

Also if you have nothing constructive to add, please dont post to these bug threads.

[NineLine]

I think they should add tracer for Mk108 so I could dodge it easier :P

 

On a serious note. We should be able to pick if we want tracers or not. Also, all impact effects need to be changed.

 

For example .50cal looks as if it was hitting a dusty powder instead of a full metal plane. The efect is wierd and there is not enough sparks coming out and too much dust (I can't call it smoke, its mushy and brown).

 

So it seems that we still have to "wait for edge".

 

Its known and acknowledged by the devs that the visual damage model needs work, that it doesnt really match the complexity of the actual damage modelling....

[NineLine]

Anyone want to do me a favour? I need opinions. Load up a 109 to fly, load a target 109 and a target P-51. Might make them friendlies so they are nice and easy to target and shoot.

 

Using only the cannon, shoot both aircraft in the wing (I used the left wing, and flew directly behind the target) try to hit close to where the wing meets the body. Use small bursts, even just one quick squeeze as long as you hit. Report what you see, and any differences shooting at both. May want to do it a couple times.

[Echo38]

I need opinions.

 

Oh, I'm afraid you're going to have a hard time getting those!

[Solty]

Anyone want to do me a favour? I need opinions. Load up a 109 to fly, load a target 109 and a target P-51. Might make them friendlies so they are nice and easy to target and shoot.

 

Using only the cannon, shoot both aircraft in the wing (I used the left wing, and flew directly behind the target) try to hit close to where the wing meets the body. Use small bursts, even just one quick squeeze as long as you hit. Report what you see, and any differences shooting at both. May want to do it a couple times.

I did 4 test runs:

 

1st test:

1hit into right wing, 2 hits into 109 left wing(wing fell off)

3hits into left wing, 2 hits into right wing. 1 hit to the feuselage (I ran out of ammo :P ) Had to finish the left wing with MG131, P-51 went down.

 

2nd test:

1hit into feuselage, 2 hits into the right wing, 3 hits into the left wing (left wing went off) 109 went down.

3 hits into the left wing (the wing fell off) P-51 went down.

 

3rd test:

3hits on left wing, 4 hits to feuselage, had to finish it with MG131. 109 went without a feuselage.

2hits left wing (wing came off) P-51 went down

4th test:

2hits into feuselage and 6 hits into the wing (the wing came off) 109 went down (on the brief file there is 10 hits though) O.O

3 hits into the left wing (wing came off) P51 went down.

 

Ummmmm it is very inconsistant and realy odd that a light plane like a 109 can take so many hits. I know I can't shoot well with Mk108, but hits are hits on the "briefing" so... it is realy wierd to see that 1 plane can take so many. But weren't AI planes more damage resistant?:huh:

Edited January 8, 2015 by Solty

[NineLine]

Well I am of the mindset that the briefings are pretty misleading for the most part. The time of hits dont sync to the actual track, so I can only image other things dont sync correctly...

 

Anyways, when testing try focussing your shots on the inner wing if you could. I know it can be hard to tell at times.

[Solty]

Well I am of the mindset that the briefings are pretty misleading for the most part. The time of hits dont sync to the actual track, so I can only image other things dont sync correctly...

 

Anyways, when testing try focussing your shots on the inner wing if you could. I know it can be hard to tell at times.

Indeed that is why I counted only "flashes" or rather puffs on the hit in my "tests"... still, there were pretty many hits that resulted in almost nothing happening.

 

Mk108 was as I heard, able to cut the wing of a B-17 with 5 shots. :huh: I don't believe that shots into inner wing are going to help here(also I was doing just that. That is why my shots landed on the feuselage instead of the wing), because Mk108 was so powerful that it is debatable if a fighter like 109 could even resist 1 shot. (maybe P-47) I heard a story when a P-51 got hit 2 times with 30mm from Me262 to the right wing and flew back home with no problems, but I don't know if shots exploded.

 

There is not much left after 3 hits into the middle of this Spitfire:

Edited January 8, 2015 by Solty

[NineLine]

Indeed that is why I counted only "flashes" or rather puffs on the hit in my "tests"... still, there were pretty many hits that resulted in almost nothing happening.

 

Mk108 was as I heard, able to cut the wing of a B-17 with 5 shots. :huh:

 

 

It depends on the hits, and where they land, if you are hitting the wing perfectly, I agree, 1... two at most before your wing is heading in a different direction...

[Solty]

It depends on the hits, and where they land, if you are hitting the wing perfectly, I agree, 1... two at most before your wing is heading in a different direction...

 

 

Yeah... and I am P-51 fanboy:P(at lest, that is what people say I am) I mean, Mk108 is good still. I lost my wing after 1 shot in MP when 109 was on my tail. So I imagine that AI still is more resistant. That is why those "tests" went so poorly.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Solty

[fjacobsen]

I think it´s more the randomness of damage thats the problem, though I´m still not sure that there is a problem.

 

In some cases I have shot down P-51D's with a single or 2 shots from the Mk108.

In other cases I expended all my Mk108 munition with some hits, but seeing the P-51 fly away at high speed only trailing some fuel or coolingfluid.

 

I think its too weak, but on the otherside I don´t want a laserzapper.

 

FinnJ

[NineLine]

I am not totally convinced that its all about the cannon strength... if you do my test above you might notice that when it appears you hit the inner wing, damage shows on the spinner/nose cone on the P-51, there might be issues with the P-51 damage model.

[Aurora juutilainen]

Anyone want to do me a favour? I need opinions. Load up a 109 to fly, load a target 109 and a target P-51. Might make them friendlies so they are nice and easy to target and shoot.

 

Using only the cannon, shoot both aircraft in the wing (I used the left wing, and flew directly behind the target) try to hit close to where the wing meets the body. Use small bursts, even just one quick squeeze as long as you hit. Report what you see, and any differences shooting at both. May want to do it a couple times.

 

I already posted this but seeings as how you asked for someone to make a track and then only a few posts later said you didnt watch the track I'll repost this in case it was skipped as well, also this was against a player not AI

npiy0CiNYGQ

[NineLine]

I already posted this but seeings as how you asked for someone to make a track and then only a few posts later said you didnt watch the track I'll repost this in case it was skipped as well, also this was against a player not AI

 

Ok guys, never mind, I will continue to test on my own, I dont need any attitude.

[fastfreddie]

Mustang

Test 1 Hits (3) Separate registered values of 8,4,2

Test 2 Hits (3) Values of 6,6,2

Test 3 Hits (2) Values of 2,2

Test 4 Hits (3) Values of 4,2,2

Test 5 Hits (2) Values of 4,2

 

109

Test 1 Hits 2 Values of 6,2

Test 2 Hits 3 Values of 6,2,2

Test 3 Hits 1 Value of 4

Test 4 Hits 3 Value of 4,2,2

Test 5 Hits 3 Value of 10,8,2

 

190

Test 1 Hits 3 Value of 4,6,2

Test 2 Hits 3 Value of 8,4,2

Test 3 Hits 2 Value of 4,2

 

Dora's wings pop of pretty easy at the wing root but were as tough as the Mustangs in the middle to the edge. K-4 seemed much easier to break the wings in half. I'll add in a video of some of the testing when its loaded.

[NineLine]

Mustang

Test 1 Hits (3) Separate registered values of 8,4,2

Test 2 Hits (3) Values of 6,6,2

Test 3 Hits (2) Values of 2,2

Test 4 Hits (3) Values of 4,2,2

Test 5 Hits (2) Values of 4,2

 

109

Test 1 Hits 2 Values of 6,2

Test 2 Hits 3 Values of 6,2,2

Test 3 Hits 1 Value of 4

Test 4 Hits 3 Value of 4,2,2

Test 5 Hits 3 Value of 10,8,2

 

190

Test 1 Hits 3 Value of 4,6,2

Test 2 Hits 3 Value of 8,4,2

Test 3 Hits 2 Value of 4,2

 

Dora's wings pop of pretty easy at the wing root but were as tough as the Mustangs in the middle to the edge. K-4 seemed much easier to break the wings in half. I'll add in a video of some of the testing when its loaded.

 

 

Yeah, I found the K-4 wings to come off easier as well, but isnt that expected with the cannon fire?

[fastfreddie]

Yeah, I found the K-4 wings to come off easier as well, but isnt that expected with the cannon fire?

 

That is more of what I expected with the 30mm cannon ... 1 round or 2 should bring down any of these fighters. One round around the wing root seemed to kill the Dora but it could take shots in the middle to edge just like the Mustang if they weren't tightly concentrated. I'd expect the Dora or Mustang to take those hits from the .50 or 13mm if they weren't concentrated but not the 30mm.

 

My stepdad's father was a rear gunner in a B-24 and his plane was brought down from one round of a 25mm Japanese light AA gun in the wing. I know that DCS said they would be examining the damage model later on but if one 30/20mm round hits any of these planes in the wings or tail if should cause major flight altering damage (ailerons/flaps/landing gear/rudder/elevator) if it doesn't take them off. I've had the flaps damaged in the Dora and it made landing ... quite interesting but the Mustang always seems to fly like nothing has happened even against humans.