DIY Machines for cockpit

[MacFevre]

I've got a question that perhaps some of you may have some enlightenment on. I know absolutely zero about CNCs and Laser Cutters. Someone has offered to sell me a Shark CNC, about three years old, for $500. I haven't done a lot research yet, but know that this thing new was about three grand, so my interest was peaked.

 

I will, of course, read some of the posts that others have posted. I just thought I'd throw this out to see if anyone has any thoughts on this particular machine. It has a travel of 13" x 24". Is this a decent deal, or should I pass?

 

Thanks for any thoughts.

[Apache600]

You should pass ... that offer right along to me! :) I don't have a CNC, but i've been looking at getting one for cutting panels and whatnot. $500 is cheap, but the costs don't end there. You'll need software and PC. I guess first things first is to find out what is all included in that price.

Looking on some internet sites, it looks like software is included if you purchase on-line. But will that software come with your purchase or his he keeping it? Will it come with the router?

Hope all is included and it's still a precise machine!

[Boltz]

I don't have any actual experience with these machines, only what I have read. Sounds like a good deal but I agree with Apache600. You should check to see if the software is included since I read that it alone costs $900. 13"x24" is a good amount of travel.

[MacFevre]

Yeah, not sure about the software part. I've got another email in to him, just waiting for a response. It does come with the router, though, and I see that is sometimes not in a CNC package.

[MacFevre]

Also wasn't sure if the travel was enough. Definitely not enough for any of the big stuff like the MIP or cutting some sidewalls or a seat. I'd like to take DM's advice and do a seat in aluminum. Still, Boltz if you say that's a good amount, than I'll accept that. Again, need to research! When will I ever find the time? :)

[Boltz]

The size of travel needed depends on what you will be making. It would be nice to have something large enough to cut an entire MIP but in the end you will only be cutting one of them (hopefully) and for the seat you would probably be cutting the aluminium with a jigsaw anyway as I don't think large sheet alu is easy on a CNC. So long as you aren't expecting to be making lots of cockpits then it is plenty to make panels, instruments, brackets etc for the A-10.

 

Something larger would be a lot more expensive. The machine to cut a full MIP second hand would probably be at least the full price of the Shark CNC.

[Warhog]

When I see prices like that it scares me. And I wonder what the motivation is of the seller to be dumping his machine.

 

I have been doing CNC for maybe 10 years now. My costs have been well over $4000.00 for an accurate, reliable, repeatable CNC mill. This is a breakdown of what you would need if you go the CNC route.

 

1. Software to draw with. You can`t just take a PDF and make it happen.

2. Conversion software. Your drawing needs to be converted into G-code which tells the CNC controller all the info it will need to cut the part.

3. Software to control the CNC device. It makes the stepper motors move in whatever direction and speed that the g-code specifies.

 

This is the least expensive software you would need and some basic hardware.

 

1. Drawing software...AutoCAD Light $1300.00

2. CamBam (for g-code)...$165.00

3. Mach 3 ( CNC control) ...$175.00

 

4. Old PC with parallel port...$500.00 (cannot use a laptop)

5. CNC Controller...$475.00

6. Carbide Cutters...$100.00 starter set

 

CNC machines vary so much in price its impossible to do an estimate for you. I recommend you do a lot of research before you jump in. And I mean a lot. There are so many crappy machines out there and most are Chinese. They look really nice and I must say I was even attracted especially with some of the prices. In the end I became very suspicious because most of the products I mentioned above you would still need. So how do they offer ALL of that at those prices. They don`t. That's what the research you are going to do will reveal... all of the extra stuff nobody mentions.

 

Then there is the learning curve. For me it was two years before I could machine a part. For simple engraving it will be nowhere close to that but its still a steep curve.

 

There is a forum you need to join and do a lot of reading there. It will help you put things into perspective and give you an idea of what you should avoid.

 

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/

 

It comes highly recommended and is the largest CNC forum available.

 

I hope I could provide a bit of insight into CNC. Its not for the timid that's for sure. But once you up and running, you can do things that make life so much easier.

[agrasyuk]

laser engraver cab be summarized to following subsystems:

chassy and mechanical (the XY stage for moving the morrors, motorized lift table)

power (PSU for logic and PSU for laser tube)

optical (laser resonator, mirrors and focus lens)

logic - the controller.

 

i never heard of "Shark" lasers, but i think it cant be any worse then generic china sh...t engraver that i'm running really well

if the enclosure and all the mechanical parts are in good shape then the purchase should be worth it. you might need to replace the tube, you might need to replace the mirrors, you might need to align the beam. it is highly probably you would need new focusing lens.

[agrasyuk]

2. Conversion software. Your drawing needs to be converted into G-code which tells the CNC controller all the info it will need to cut the part.

3. Software to control the CNC device. It makes the stepper motors move in whatever direction and speed that the g-code specifies.

.

not necessarily. my process is to take the layered DXF drawing from ACAD and feed it to thunderlaser Cam software, select a cut/engrave/power% for each layer to be processed and everything else is magically happening by itself. no G-codes for me to mess with.

This is the least expensive software you would need and some basic hardware.

 

1. Drawing software...AutoCAD Light $1300.00

2. CamBam (for g-code)...$165.00

3. Mach 3 ( CNC control) ...$175.00

4. Old PC with parallel port...$500.00 (cannot use a laptop)

5. CNC Controller...$475.00

6. Carbide Cutters...$100.00 starter set

autoCAD student version is free (for 3 years)

my laser connects via USB (did have to find old laptop with win xp however)

DSP controller upgrade indeed set me back that much.

carbide cutters for laser? :huh:

[Boltz]

laser engraver cab be summarized to following subsystems:

chassy and mechanical (the XY stage for moving the morrors, motorized lift table)

power (PSU for logic and PSU for laser tube)

optical (laser resonator, mirrors and focus lens)

logic - the controller.

 

i never heard of "Shark" lasers, but i think it cant be any worse then generic china sh...t engraver that i'm running really well

if the enclosure and all the mechanical parts are in good shape then the purchase should be worth it. you might need to replace the tube, you might need to replace the mirrors, you might need to align the beam. it is highly probably you would need new focusing lens.

 

Anton, this is a CNC router not a laser engraver. I believe it is the one rockler sells: http://www.rockler.com/cnc-shark-routing-system-with-new-7-0-software

[agrasyuk]

:doh: :doh:

 

My apologies.

 

Still, if one was looking to build a DIY router, a not 100% functional machine can be nice headstart (depending on what is broken).

[wasserfall]

For software you could use Coreldraw or Adobe illustrator

[Warhog]

For software you could use Coreldraw or Adobe illustrator

 

Yes that's quite true. Even CamBam has a rudimentary drawing section within the g-code convertor. I don`t use it much unless I need something quick and dirty yet precise. Anything like a PCB or some gears get done in AutoCAD.

 

However, the point I was wanting to make was that getting into CNC can be a bold and quite rewarding adventure but it requires money and learning. Not necessarily in that order but usually a lot of each. It shouldn't be entered into without knowing full well what you will have to learn and the equipment you will need to purchase. Otherwise, I guarantee, you will be either overwhelmed or very disappointed.

 

I don`t know much about lasers but my impression is that they are just like a laser printer (in concept that is). You have a picture you want printed (I mean cut), you pick out the lines you want cut, set how deep the cuts should be and then press enter. Out pops whatever you wanted and its perfect. Of course I have probably oversimplified it but as I say, I know little of lasers except they cost a small fortune for something good.

 

I do wish you luck with your endeavour's. I know just how convenient it is to whip up a panel in a couple of hours right at home in your basement.:)

[MacFevre]

Warhog, I believe you're correct. I think I'm going to pass, as something just seems off. First, he says it it's three years old and he's only used it a couple times. Then he says it doesn't come with any software. He seems evasive when I question him as to why. He also hasn't answered any of my basic questions such as, does it come with manuals? Any bits included? Etc.

 

Thanks for the responses anyway! Will check the forum. It's not like I really wanted take the time and learn it all, though it would be fun to have. And it would be pretty cool to just pop down and make a panel whenever I wanted! Problem I'm finding is finding someone who can or will. This weekend I wanted to get all my bezels finally sorted. So after spending hours trying to compare different bezels and backplates on various pictures, and sorting through various case standards, I think I've got it pretty well figured out. All except the engine gauge cluster thickness. Now I would love to have someone cut these for me. I did the half-inch instrument bezel with wood. (I know, but really not much of a choice.) and the other 3/8" ones with 1/4" plexi. (Again, not by choice.) Then I wound up making the openings 3" because I couldn't find a 2 7/8" hole saw locally. All I can say is for the most part they look okay, but it's obvious they're homemade.

 

I know I could have avoided all that with a CNC, (or for that matter, a laser, but that's opening a whole new can of worms.) unfortunately,not only do I know practically zero about them, it doesn't seem like there's anyone in our village, or even our area,that does, much less a friend with one.

 

So, back to the drawing board. That's for responding and giving me plenty to think about.

[zahry]

Hi MacFevre, you can use Sketchup (free) for 3d modeling.

 

personally I have nothing against the chinese cnc or lasers - Been using it past 3-4 years and no issues what so ever. I have to say the quality has improved tremendously in the past decade. I had this one as a starter kit with water cooled 1,5kw spindle and I've added limiters ($10) for automatic homing and jig setups. http://www.carving-cnc.com/x61500series-1/x6-1500gt-usb/cnc-x61500gtusb3-router-engraver-drilling-and-milling-machine.html

 

It can run of any PC/laptop with USB and if you'll need help I still have all setup files for Mach3/ BobCAD and I can help you get started.

Edited December 18, 2014 by zahry

[MacFevre]

Thanks Zhara, I'll take a look. Might take you up on the offer! :)

[Mr_Burns]

So I just had a look at some youtube videos and whilst I am no expert by a long shot, I did build my own and used a Dremel which isnt really much good for panels as I found out.

 

The Shark looks like it is 3 axis running on rails with linear bearings.

 

If you try and buy just than individually on ebay it will cost you more than $500.

 

Personally, I would consider that, making your own is fun, but not when you want some precision and 1mm of travel is the difference between the perfect cut and putting the engraving tool through the table! (Its sacrificial MDF) I would have rather spent $500 on that.

 

As for software I didnt spend nearly that much, I got Mach 3 and Gcode but like mentioned earlier you can get non professional software licences with limited (but enough for amature) CNCing.

 

There are you tube videos on converting Sketch Up to GCode and look at CamBam plus which I use.

 

Mate, if I were you, I would do it.