Flight sticks and trim

[Fudd]

Does anyone know of any flightsticks on the market that trim like an actual aircraft??

 

In other words, IRL, with ACS on, you would use the hat at the the top of the stick to trim the stick and it stays in that position unless moved.

 

It just bites having to trim and not be able to see or feel it on the stick. :(

[S77th-konkussion]

You can set this up just fine with a Saitek from within SST. My trim controls are mapped in there now, If I wanted to- I could set all 4 trim to the HAT with no problem at all. I'm sure if the Saitek allows this the higher line CH manager and Foxy must do something similar.

 

Some of the the AXIS mappings in LOMAC input section don't work, no. Trim doesn't. It won't hold position. MFD zoom doesn't work right on the SU25T, but it works fine on the others.

[Fudd]

Will the stick move when you trim it? ie. If I trim forward then the stick moves forward?

 

I can map the trim to the hat and I have an older generation Saitek

 

What I really want is a stick that will move to the position that I trim it to like IRL.

[S77th-konkussion]

Yep- it does all that as it should.

[deathcoffin]

What is the mean reason to trim an aircraft really? Cant we just move the stick to navigate the aircraft?

[Burner_Tbird2]

I didn't know a Saitek would do all of what Fudd is asking. I though those sticks used a spring system for movement and therefore wouldn't physically move when trimming.

 

Konkussion you sure about that?

 

And Deathcoffin the trimming of an aircraft can greatly affect its responsiveness and behavior. The Real Thunderbirds and the Virtual Thunderbirds both use nose down trim.

[Shepski]

Fudd means the stick in your hand(X-52/Cougar/name your stick) physically moves... I don't think that is available in any flight sim stick Fudd.

[deathcoffin]

I didn't know a Saitek would do all of what Fudd is asking. I though those sticks used a spring system for movement and therefore wouldn't physically move when trimming.

 

Konkussion you sure about that?

 

And Deathcoffin the trimming of an aircraft can greatly affect its responsiveness and behavior. The Real Thunderbirds and the Virtual Thunderbirds both use nose down trim.

 

How does it help though? Triming the nose down means making the plane rotate downwards like moving the stick down?

[Crusty]

No pc stick I know about does this, the x45 definately does not

[Ironhand]

What is the mean reason to trim an aircraft really? Cant we just move the stick to navigate the aircraft?

Among other things, trimming the aircraft allows for smoother, easier flying. If you have the aircraft trimmed to neutral, you can take your hand off the stick and the aircraft will hold level flight (more or less). So fewer stick inputs are required to fly smoothly and it take less physical effort to keep your nose pointed where you want it allowing you to concentrate on other things.

 

Depending on the mission, I might trim slightly nose up or slightly nose down, so that if I'm distracted by something, my aircraft will have a tendency to move in the right direction. For instance, if I'm flying a low altitude ingress, I might trim slightly nose up so that, if I forget to fly for a moment while trying to figure out where those tracers came from, my altitude will slowly increase instead of decease the last few meters into the ground.

 

Rich

[britgliderpilot]

No pc stick I know about does this, the x45 definately does not

 

I'm wondering if some of the force-feedbacks sticks might . . . . . they don't usually have a spring-centering system, so it should at least be a possibility . . .

[Weta43]

The real (game) stick will physically move in Russian planes if you trim & if you have force feedback enabled. I do, I do & it does.

[britgliderpilot]

How does it help though? Triming the nose down means making the plane rotate downwards like moving the stick down?

 

In a real aircraft, trimming will physically move the centering point of the stick. What I do in my glider (and presumably anyone else does in their Cessna or whatever) is hold the stick where I want it, and move the trim lever until it requires no force from me to hold the stick in place. Can then take my hands off.

 

The way things are in Lomac now, you add a notch of down trim and you have to move the stick back one notch of trim to balance it out. Unless you've got superhuman fine motor skills, that can result in a bit of switchback flying until you're properly trimmed out . . . .

 

Whether that's realistic for the FCS of these aircraft or not I'm not sure, but I'm a lot more comfortable with the physical centering point of the stick moving.

 

 

Funnily enough, I never noticed it in Lomac - just got Condor Soaring, though, and the difference is really noticable there. Suppose it's a compliment to Condor that it's close enough for these little things to niggle me :p

[S77th-konkussion]

Fudd means the stick in your hand(X-52/Cougar/name your stick) physically moves... I don't think that is available in any flight sim stick Fudd.

 

LMAO.. oh man.. I meant the virtual stick.. sheesh. I had no idea at the time he meant the stick in my hand.. :icon_toil

[33rd_bratpfanne.]

My Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback moves correctly when i trim. Thats why i modded the Handle of the X 45 on the Base of the MS SW FFB

 

S!

 

Brati

[Fudd]

LMAO.. oh man.. I meant the virtual stick.. sheesh. I had no idea at the time he meant the stick in my hand.. :icon_toil

 

I wasnt talking about that stick either konkussion :D

 

 

Ya, I meant the physical joystick moves when you input trim. I know that if the top of the line HOTAS doesnt do it and it cost 200+ dollars, I imagine a stick that moved would cost significantly more than that.

 

Rich is right, trim is extremely important and it keeps you from muscle fu**in the flightstick.

[Fudd]

My Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback moves correctly when i trim. Thats why i modded the Handle of the X 45 on the Base of the MS SW FFB

 

S!

 

Brati

 

Thanks for the info... I'll check it out.

[Fudd]

Microsoft Sidewinder sticks are no longer sold... and I am always a little apprehensive about buying computer gear used.

 

Does anyone know anything about the Logitech Force 3D Pro???

[Joe]

The reason trim is important is real aircraft is that it places the control stick in the proper position and removes the force required to keep it there. For a real pilot holding 30 pounds of force to maintain a control position, trimming that force out is a big deal. For a virtual pilot, it doesn't much matter in that regard, but the trim can still be used to stabilize flight.

 

FYI, the F-18E/F stick does not move when the pilot trims. I wonder what other aircraft are like this.

[NEODARK]

Microsoft Sidewinder sticks are no longer sold... and I am always a little apprehensive about buying computer gear used.

 

Does anyone know anything about the Logitech Force 3D Pro???

 

I have one of these old things (I use my x-52) but do you think it'd be worth giving this to a friend?

 

 

or just tell him to go buy a new one (trying to get him into lockon)

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

Does anyone know of any flightsticks on the market that trim like an actual aircraft??

 

Microsoft Sidewinder Force feedback II and Logitech with force feedback

[Fudd]

FYI, the F-18E/F stick does not move when the pilot trims. I wonder what other aircraft are like this.

 

This would require fly by wire controls... ie. there is no mechanical linkage between stick and the surface it controls.

 

Or if it is not completely wire controled there is a telescoping linkage between stick and ACS servos that allow for trimming without movement of the stick.

 

(I used to work on flight controls)

 

How do you know about the F-18... firsthand knowledge or reading?

[Fudd]

Microsoft Sidewinder Force feedback II and Logitech with force feedback

 

Thanks, I think I might check out the logitech.

[Joe]

How do you know about the F-18... firsthand knowledge or reading?

Reading: NATOPS

[deathcoffin]

Among other things, trimming the aircraft allows for smoother, easier flying. If you have the aircraft trimmed to neutral, you can take your hand off the stick and the aircraft will hold level flight (more or less). So fewer stick inputs are required to fly smoothly and it take less physical effort to keep your nose pointed where you want it allowing you to concentrate on other things.

 

Depending on the mission, I might trim slightly nose up or slightly nose down, so that if I'm distracted by something, my aircraft will have a tendency to move in the right direction. For instance, if I'm flying a low altitude ingress, I might trim slightly nose up so that, if I forget to fly for a moment while trying to figure out where those tracers came from, my altitude will slowly increase instead of decease the last few meters into the ground.

 

Rich

 

i see