Countries, factions, sides and editor flexibility

[sedenion]

Hi ED devs, community, customers, the NSA, etc...

 

I would to introduce a debate about some simple improvements (i think it's not so complicated) in the mission editor regarding the countries, factions sides (red/blue) etc...

 

Actually, the current DCS country/faction/side implementation is very rigid, made according some realistic facts corresponding to a point of the time of our (official) history, which is a good thing. However, that imply many limitations on creating some sophisticated, or more or less fictionnal scenarios. The static "Red" vs "Blue" mechanism sets all the game to a very binary state from start to end (this is particularly a constraint for campaigns)... You can't create a fictionnal faction or "country", that you can configure yourself... We have a "insurgee" faction, but almost useless.

 

So i propose:

- The ability to create custom factions, the ability to set any unit for it, without constraints.

- The ability to add some custom "sides", other that Red and Blue, maybe with some simple "antagonist/neutrality" rules.

- The ability to CHANGE the "side" of any country or faction during a campaign

 

So, i know the "first" objection: What about the camos ?! I answer:

1) no problem, just let any camo to be chosen when the unit is in a "custom faction". The "unrealistic" or "not accurate" camo according some rules is the mission/campaign author's problem and, he do what he want... (even something stupid, if he want)

2) we can imagine some camo sets without any distinctive country flags or marks

 

I guess the second objection: What about the REALITY ?! Well... i just want to say: Please, let one time the reality in the real world.

 

Thanks for reading (and repplying), sorry for my bad english toussa toussa... http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-omelette-du-fromage-1.png

[vicx]

I agree that the countries, factions side structure could be much better. From a modding perspective having a more modular system might even allow for some AI tweaks.

 

Still the amount of time required to write and test a large software change like this is ... I don't wanna think about it. I wonder if that is the position of the devs too.

 

It would have to be changed as part of big frozen update. If a new countries, factions side structure isn't in DCS 2.0 you will have to wait until DCS 3.0.

[Djent33]

Many thanks.

[vicx]

I might be changing my mind about this. I see a lot of hard coded references to RED and BLUE in ME code but that doesn't mean that the engine isn't ready to support more "colors". Another thing I might have a look at.

[DarkFire]

What would be very interesting would be the ability to dynamically add to the list of involved factions, in a similar way to the old Total Air War campaigns...

[Rongor]

DCS World is about flying high fidelity simulated aircraft. If you fly in hostile environment, you in most cases already have enough sides: yours and the opponents. Nothing else is needed.

You anyway fly overhead Georgia all the time. What I wanna say is that the core of your wishes is simply up to your creative imagination. They don't have to be ingame.

[SDsc0rch]

i think this is some good innovative thinking

 

at first i thought you were going to say we need a way to have an actual neutral side - non-combatants

 

(which we do)

 

but yeah - i like what you're saying ---- i wonder if ED is able to pull this off..

[sedenion]

You anyway fly overhead Georgia all the time. What I wanna say is that the core of your wishes is simply up to your creative imagination. They don't have to be ingame.

 

Yes, i don't demands that what is in my imagination to be in the game, i ask for the ability to CREATE it in the game. Only little more freedom and flexibility... Maybe some will never use any "custom fictionnal faction" because of "realisme" or lack of imagination, and maybe some other will be happy to be able to do it, to make what we can call "fancy" campaing and missions with other things than the fixed known implemented nations.

 

( Some people like to have some scenario... current fixed "country" factions prevent to do an interesting scenario without involving a fictionnal war between nations as they are, which greatly limits the "geopolitical" context of the scenario... where you have to choose for who you fight [russia or USA, maybe some Germany and Israel] and which country you fight against. If you don't want to be an russian/american pilot who fight against russian/american/french/german/turkish/etc... you are frustrated )

Edited March 1, 2015 by sedenion

[DarkFire]

At the very least, as a mission designer, I want the ability to edit the coalition lists after mission creation. I can't imagine that this would be too hard surely...?

[sedenion]

At the very least, as a mission designer, I want the ability to edit the coalition lists after mission creation. I can't imagine that this would be too hard surely...?

 

Yes, this limitation remain a mistery...

[Exorcet]

DCS World is about flying high fidelity simulated aircraft. If you fly in hostile environment, you in most cases already have enough sides: yours and the opponents. Nothing else is needed.

You anyway fly overhead Georgia all the time. What I wanna say is that the core of your wishes is simply up to your creative imagination. They don't have to be ingame.

This is a simulation feature. War isn't always as simple as country A vs country B. Adding Insurgents to the DCSW country list was a great idea, buy why can't their be two groups? Where are civilians and neutrals? You also have things like defectors and training units.

[sedenion]

This is a simulation feature. War isn't always as simple as country A vs country B. Adding Insurgents to the DCSW country list was a great idea, buy why can't their be two groups?

 

Adding Insurgents to the DCSW country list was a great idea, buy why can't their be two groups?

 

And the current 'Insurgents' faction is strictly limited to some ground units... nothing spectacular to do with it.

 

Where are civilians and neutrals? You also have things like defectors and training units.

 

And mercenaries, secessionary, black ops...

[GaryIKILLYOU]

This is a simulation feature. War isn't always as simple as country A vs country B. Adding Insurgents to the DCSW country list was a great idea, buy why can't their be two groups?

 

 

 

And the current 'Insurgents' faction is strictly limited to some ground units... nothing spectacular to do with it.

 

 

 

And mercenaries, secessionary, black ops...

I don't see how having more options could hurt, regardless the frivolity of said options.

:)

[Sabre-TLA]

You can have coalitions change sides if you are not afraid to edit the mission file directly.

 

Just copy all the code for the country and it's slot to the other side's country slot. Give it a new slot number (so it's at the end of the existing coalition country numbers).

 

For example if we had a mission with Ukraine in BLUE but we want to show that it has switched sides to RED:

 

 
           ["name"] = "BLUE",
           ["country"] = 
           {              
                [15] = 
               {
                   ["name"] = "Ukraine",
                   ["id"] = 1,
                   ["static"] = 
                   {
               }, -- end of [15]

 

Copy all the code from [15] to the other [15] and then put it under the RED coalition.

Update the [15] to the next available number on the RED side [5]:

 

["name"] = "RED",
["country"] = 
           {
               [1] = 
               {
                   ["id"] = 18,
                   ["name"] = "Abkhazia",
               }, -- end of [1]
               [2] = 
               {
                   ["id"] = 17,
                   ["name"] = "Insurgents",
               }, -- end of [2]
               [3] = 
               {
                   ["id"] = 0,
                   ["name"] = "Russia",
               }, -- end of [3]
               [4] = 
               {
                   ["id"] = 19,
                   ["name"] = "South Ossetia",
               }, -- end of [4]
                [5] = 
               {
                   ["name"] = "Ukraine",
                   ["id"] = 1,
                   ["static"] = 
                   {
               }, -- end of [5]
           }, -- end of ["country"]

 

Don't forget to remove the BLUE Country reference. Make sure you take a backup of your mission file in case you mess up the copy and paste.

 

I've used this a few times where I made a mistake in selecting the original coalition parties and had to move them.

 

This can only be done in a single mission but in a campaign you could have the coalition reconfigure from mission to mission just by changing it in each mission.

 

Would be nice if the ME had tools to do this for you but this is a workaround until it does.

[sedenion]

Would be nice if the ME had tools to do this for you but this is a workaround until it does.

 

The most important to me is the ability to create custom factions and others sides than "RED" and "BLUE". Changing sides (without editing mission file) is the cherry on the cake.

[Justificus]

Wow, just did a search on how to change the coalition sides of countries, yes, I'm trying to edit a mission that I already created in order to try using a script (of which I'm clueless about doing...) but can't find a way to do so... I see Sabre-TLA suggests editing the mission file directly. I just tried to open the file with Notepad and did not see anything so neatly written like he wrote above. What is the suggested program to use when editing a mission file? Thanks for your patience with my ignorance.

[Exorcet]

Wow, just did a search on how to change the coalition sides of countries, yes, I'm trying to edit a mission that I already created in order to try using a script (of which I'm clueless about doing...) but can't find a way to do so... I see Sabre-TLA suggests editing the mission file directly. I just tried to open the file with Notepad and did not see anything so neatly written like he wrote above. What is the suggested program to use when editing a mission file? Thanks for your patience with my ignorance.

.miz files are really .zip files. Back up the mission, change the file extension to .zip, unzip the mission and you will get 3 files. Use Notepad++ to edit the file named "mission". Next zip the three files back into a .zip and change the extension from .zip to .miz.

[Roadrunner]

was thinking about posting almost the same as sedenion.

 

my thought had been, that with NTTR map a "Blue Force" and "Red Force" "country" would be nice, each having all aircrafts, helicopters, skins etc available. yes, you can create this on your own, but having it in the core install would be better ;)

 

regards,

RR

[Davis0079]

the way I was hoping they would open the editor for more possibilities is to add more then red vs blue.

 

the simple fact of being able to do red (1) vs blue (2) vs yellow (3) vs green (4) would be cool..

 

or red and green vs blue...

 

side note on insurgents...as of now I give blue the insurgents and red has South Odessa...both very low tech armies...it makes it so I can line an outlaw area (valleys a lot) with both insurgents and south Odessa AAA guns (so they cant see each other) and any aircraft flying through will get shot at...both red and blue....there by making an area on the map not safe for either team.....an attempt to make a red (Russia and Abkhazia) vs blue (USA and Georgia) vs insurgents (in the mountains of South Odessa)....

Edited April 4, 2015 by Davis0079

[Backy 51]

A long overdue and needed implementation. For most, the Cold War ended two decades ago. Modern conflict is much more complex than Red vs. Blue. The ability to create notional factions in the mission editor would be greatly appreciated by mission designers.