DCS: F-14A/A+/B by Heatblur Simulations coming to DCS World!

[WinterH]

Soo, Tomcat fans have been getting loads of hype enhancers (as if it's needed for hollywood pin up plane :P).

 

Is not time already for us Viggen folks to see something, which was supposed to release earlier?

[HairyPOOnuggets]

Whats a VIGGEN?

[WinterH]

Whats a VIGGEN?

It is the module which isn't Meh-14 .

[Top Jockey]

Whats a VIGGEN?

 

JA 37 "Viggen" :

 

Swedish built fighter-interceptor, from Saab manufacturer.

There were several other variants besides the fighter-interceptor.

 

In service roughly from early 70's to early 2000's.

 

Many pics throughout the web.

[Hummingbird]

Whats a VIGGEN?

 

It's the lousy warm up band for the Tomcat ;)

[mattebubben]

JA 37 "Viggen" :

 

Swedish built fighter-interceptor, from Saab manufacturer.

There were several other variants besides the fighter-interceptor.

 

In service roughly from early 70's to early 2000's.

 

Many pics throughout the web.

 

And the Variant we are getting is not the JA 37.

 

Its the AJS version of the AJ 37 strike variant.

 

but yea there are 5 different base variants (and then all variants had small upgrades over the years).

(the 1970 AJ 37 being the Strike/Anti-ship variant SK 37 being the 2-seat trainer variant the SH 37 being the Radar equipped maritime-Recce/Anti-ship variant ,The SF 37 Recce variant with a camera nose and last the 1980 JA 37 fighter variant)

Edited June 17, 2016 by mattebubben

[mattebubben]

It's the lousy warm up band for the Tomcat ;)

 

Well it all depends on preference.

 

Me i very much doubt i will be getting the F-14.

 

But the Viggen is a first day buy for me because it will bring a number of new things to DCS for the first time (1 example being Anti-ship missiles).

[Hummingbird]

Well it all depends on preference.

 

Me i very much doubt i will be getting the F-14.

 

But the Viggen is a first day buy for me because it will bring a number of new things to DCS for the first time (1 example being Anti-ship missiles).

 

The F-14 brings with it an AI RIO & Phoenix missiles (not to mention an entire aircraft carrier & campaign), that's pretty significant new stuff in my book and definitely more than the Viggen will bring with it.

 

All in all the Viggen is not really an aircraft that interests me a whole lot, I'd much rather have an F-4 Phantom or Panavia Tornado for example, but I will be buying it regardless just to support Leatherneck.

[BlackLion213]

It is the module which isn't Meh-14 .

 

It's the lousy warm up band for the Tomcat

 

Me i very much doubt i will be getting the F-14.

 

Such harsh words directed against these two lovely aircraft. :P

 

To me, they are very complimentary designs. They were designed around the same time, but had very different missions and different design focuses.

 

The Viggen heralded the eventual layout (aerodynamically) for subsequent European 4.5 gen fighters, broke new ground on systems integration and ergonomics, and offered profound Anti-ship strike capability.

 

The Tomcat added some new tech, but mostly took existing concepts and turned them up to "11" (Spinal Tap reference :)). It also heralded the future of BVR by carrying the first ARH, fire and forget weapon, and multi-shot capability. These features plus it's powerful radar granted unprecedented Air-to-Air capabilities.

 

I understand just wanting one if you only have an interest in Anti-ship/Strike or only an interest in Air-to-Air...but if you like more than one thing you really should consider both. They will offer two very different sides of the Aviation coin from the 4th Gen fighter stand point. Hard to know what you will enjoy till you try it... :)

 

-Nick

[fixen]

Such harsh words directed against these two lovely aircraft. :P

 

To me, they are very complimentary designs. They were designed around the same time, but had very different missions and different design focuses.

 

The Viggen heralded the eventual layout (aerodynamically) for subsequent European 4.5 gen fighters, broke new ground on systems integration and ergonomics, and offered profound Anti-ship strike capability.

 

The Tomcat added some new tech, but mostly took existing concepts and turned them up to "11" (Spinal Tap reference :)). It also heralded the future of BVR by carrying the first ARH, fire and forget weapon, and multi-shot capability. These features plus it's powerful radar granted unprecedented Air-to-Air capabilities.

 

I understand just wanting one if you only have an interest in Anti-ship/Strike or only an interest in Air-to-Air...but if you like more than one thing you really should consider both. They will offer two very different sides of the Aviation coin from the 4th Gen fighter stand point. Hard to know what you will enjoy till you try it... :)

 

-Nick

 

Hard to argue with that. I'll get both, which will probably mean eating sticks for a few weeks.

[Ripcord03]

my problem is that i cant decided whether to wait for the F-14 or to go for the F-5E right now, and hope i have money for the 14 when it comes out. xD (I need the F-5E because MIG-28 xD)

[Tirak]

my problem is that i cant decided whether to wait for the F-14 or to go for the F-5E right now, and hope i have money for the 14 when it comes out. xD (I need the F-5E because MIG-28 xD)

 

What are you hoping for in the F-5E?

 

Supersonic Aggressor Trainer? Go for it.

 

Short Range Air Defense Fighter? Only if you've got cash burning a hole in your pocket.

 

Multi Mission Fighter with a worthwhile payload? Wait for the Tomcat.

[mattebubben]

the F-5E should be a quite capable little bomb truck/Light Strike aircraft when you learn how to be accurate with it though.

[Tirak]

the F-5E should be a quite capable little bomb truck/Light Strike aircraft when you learn how to be accurate with it though.

 

No PGMs, of any kind and 2 outdated sidewinders. If he's looking for a multimission strike craft, he's better off with either the Mirage or waiting for the Tomcat, or the Viggen.

[mattebubben]

No PGMs, of any kind and 2 outdated sidewinders. If he's looking for a multimission strike craft, he's better off with either the Mirage or waiting for the Tomcat, or the Viggen.

 

Well we are still not sure what Aim-9 Variants it will get.

 

If it will be limited to rear aspect missiles or if it will get the all aspect Aim-9Ps as well.

 

And it will be able to carry GBUs but will require buddy laze just like the mirage 2000.

 

And it will also have a greater bomb load then the Mirage 2000 does.

 

So the only Advantage the mirage 2000 has in the strike roll is the Hud / CCIP targeting etc which makes it easier to use (but with training one should be able to get very accurate with the F-5E as well)

 

If we wants a dedicated strike aircraft yes wait for the Viggen if he wants a Advanced 2 seat fighter wait for the F-14 and if he wants a Single seat fighter interceptor go for the Mirage 2000 and if he wants an advanced multi role aircraft wait for the F/A-18C.

 

But there is no reason not to take the F-5E is the F-5E is what he wants as it will be a very fun aircraft that is capable in many areas (maby not better then 4th gen multi role aircraft like the F-16 or F/A-18 but it will still be a capable aircraft in its roles).

 

 

Just because the F-5E does not have all the bells and whistles that you personally want that does not mean it does not appeal to plenty of other ppl who either dont care that it lacks those things or maby they want it because it lacks those things and is an earlier generation of aircraft.

Edited June 18, 2016 by mattebubben

[WinterH]

For me things are much simpler, I am interested in F-5E and Viggen, because they are F-5E and Viggen.

 

Likewise, I am not interested in Mirage (even though I have it) and F-14 because they are not interesting aircraft in my book.

 

Some people choose modules as if they are creating their personal airforce to win some important war or something. Well I'm not saying it is wrong or something, to each their own, if that's what one enjoy while simming, however, I personally don't find that very reasonable. I am after a DCS module, because of it being an aircraft I've always wondered about, whether capable, or limited. So for me, it is almost "the more obscure, the better". Aircraft like F-5 and Viggen almost never had their songs sung in virtual skies. One is a pretty good match to MiG-21 and a true "pilot's airplane". Other adds stuff like ground radar, funky 70s avionics which were then state of art, stand off glide bombs and whatnot. F-14 on the other hand, for me at least, a very beautiful, but not very interesting aircraft. As far it's position in DCS, the way I see it, is just another NATO fighter, and cheesy movie-star :P. (OK, I know F-14 will be able to haul a pretty big payload for bombing if need be, and while not confirmed, may even get a TGP and self lasing for LGBs, and that may make it more interesting for me down the line, but it's not a day one aircraft for me personally). Naval ops? Yeah I think the Hornet will bring it before the Tomcat already, and I am of the weird group who isn't a fan of operating from an oversized boat :P.

 

Why am I writing these in F-14 thread at all? Do I think people are wrong in prefering F-14 (or anything) over anything else? Hell no, far be it from me to claim such wild things. It is just to show that there is another perspective too :). Only thing I'll add before finishing my arguably off topic post : So, is Viggen is lousy placeholder till Tomcat arrive, or the Tiger II an unappealing choice? Like hell they are, if anything, they are much more interesting for me personally :P.

[bernp]

I have a feeling that Leatherneck is going to blow our socks off with the F14. Based on the outstanding job with their Mig 21. Life's too short to pass this one up, even if it's not on your wishlist. However, f you can resist it, more power to you ☺.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

[Ripcord03]

personally, i have the mirage already, and 100% will be buy a tomcat when it becomes available. just haven't decided if i want the F-5E. I love every plane in this game, only a couple that i haven't bought yet, the Mi8, the Mig 15 and the L39C and obvious the F5E.

 

But the tomcat was my first love when it comes to fighter jets. (When it comes to all planes its the P-38L with the Mustang in a close second, followed by the B-17, then the tomcat). I always loved the design, and abilities, not to mention top gun being one of my all time favorite movies....

[Tirak]

Some people choose modules as if they are creating their personal airforce to win some important war or something.

 

Fake argument, it's all about dollar for capability, and when looked at in that light, the F-5E on offer is a glorified trainer with the same asking price as an aircraft that will give me more.

[WinterH]

I'd say this post of yours further prove my argument :)

[mattebubben]

Fake argument, it's all about dollar for capability, and when looked at in that light, the F-5E on offer is a glorified trainer with the same asking price as an aircraft that will give me more.

 

So just because you only care about Dollar for capability you will only buy the most capable products capable.

 

But thats you.

 

Most ppl dont share that view.

 

And also in a slight Irony...

 

Dollar For Capacity is the exact reason why the F-5E

(and the F-5 in general) became such a hit all over the world as a affordable Multi-role aircraft.

 

Since at the time (1970s-1990s) it could do much (if not most) of what more advanced aircraft like the F-16A

could but at a Fraction of the cost.

 

But lets bring this back on Topic and about the F-14.

Edited June 18, 2016 by mattebubben

[Tirak]

I'd say this post of yours further prove my argument :)

 

No it does not, it has to do with disposable income. It makes no financial sense for me to waste money on a supersonic trainer, since the percentage of my income that goes into my entertainment, is vastly more affected by a purchase of a module than yours is. It is impossible to justify purchasing something that will give me objectively less enjoyment because it lacks a great deal of capability. I have minimum thresholds of what I expect my entertainment to provide, and for 60 USD, the F-5 does not meet those thresholds.

[mattebubben]

No it does not, it has to do with disposable income. It makes no financial sense for me to waste money on a supersonic trainer, since the percentage of my income that goes into my entertainment, is vastly more affected by a purchase of a module than yours is. It is impossible to justify purchasing something that will give me objectively less enjoyment because it lacks a great deal of capability. I have minimum thresholds of what I expect my entertainment to provide, and for 60 USD, the F-5 does not meet those thresholds.

 

So just because an aircraft only has 2x Air-air missiles its a Trainer?

 

Even if it only has 2x Aim-9s its still a very capable (the 70s/80s) little multirole with the abillity to carry a very decent bomb load

(greater then the Mig-29 or Mirage 2000)

 

And it also comes down to this.

 

Just because you dont think its worth your money does not mean everybody else comes down to the same conclusion.

 

If you dont think its worth your money due not suiting your playstyle etc then dont buy it.

 

But dont tell someone who wants to buy it not to just because of that,

if they think its worth their money then let them.

 

Just like i wont buy the F-14 because its not an of aircraft im interested in and id rather spend my money on other aircraft

(like the AJS 37,F-5E and F-18C)

 

But that does not mean i will tell anybody who is interested in it not to buy it or question them as to why they would want it.

 

We all have to make our own decision as to what we think is worth our money.

But we cant make that decision for others as they might very well have other desires / Criteria as to what they want in a module.

Edited June 18, 2016 by mattebubben

[BlackLion213]

I'd say this post of yours further prove my argument :)

 

Yes it did. :)

 

I think you and I have a very similar perspective and use case for DCS. I care little for MP and like DCS because it gives an unprecedented insight into what it was like to use these tools. As such, I like modules that offer a varied experience, challenging characteristics, and cover a wide range of eras.

 

As such, the Viggen seems perfect as it will offer (I think) a very different experience and mission from anything currently in DCS.

 

However, the Tomcat will also bring some very unique experiences to DCS. It may not seem like it on the surface since it's general capabilities (meaning A-A) are very similar to the F-15C, but generally older with more primitive avionics. But the aircraft's handling will likely be quite different from anything currently in DCS.

 

Frankly, the Tomcat was a cantankerous beast! It's low speed handling was quite messy with lots of adverse yaw, floatiness, slow control responses, and engines that had to be operated strictly by the book (speaking of the F-14A). Even though the Tomcat could generate a tremendous pitch rate with excellent rate and radius of turn, it's pitch response on normal flying was a bit sluggish and less precise than other 4th gen fighters (and less so than the trainers that most aviators started with...). NATOPS emphasizes that pilot must give the nose a chance to respond to small stick inputs before further adjustment/correction or there was a tendency to get into OIOs.

 

Also, pilots who flew it emphasized that it was "no sports car" of a fighter - very starkly contrasting with the "Alfa Romeo 4C"-like experience of the F-5E. I don't think there is a fighter in DCS that is quite like this. Every fighter I've flown in DCS is a sports car of sorts. Add to this the fact that this monster is meant to operate from a ship...with this kind of handling and laggy, finicky engines....carrier ops will be tough! :) Actually, the Hornet will probably be my trainer. :D It's just a glorified trainer too...right Tirak? :music_whistling:

 

And we haven't even touched on the F-14A's engines....or combat operations with 2 crew members in DCS....

 

I'll get off my soapbox. :) But if unique flying experiences are your thing (stick and rudder operations), then the Tomcat will be quite unique in DCS (my guess).

 

I think many will find that it flies very differently than they expected, in both good and bad ways.

 

-Nick

[Tirak]

@Matt: Yes, I classify it as a trainer because its air to air armament is the same as the other trainers, and its air to ground armament is handled entirely by adjusting depression angle and matching your speed and altitude. No CCIP, no CCRP, no TGP, no radar guided weapons or guided air to ground weapons of any kind. It is good to teach you to fly and do light bombing, like all the other trainers.

 

Matt, Davison asked for opinions on the fighter if it was worth buying or waiting, I gave mine. It's a glorified trainer, not worth the money because it lacks capabilities. I explained my logic since some people wanted to, for some reason, pigeon hole everyone who has turned down the F-5 as some sort of ADD ridden CoD fanboy, which is a gross misrepresentation of the argument I was making. Just because you don't agree with my reasons, doesn't mean I shouldn't freely share them so the person making a purchasing decision can look at an issue from all sides.

 

@Blacklion: Strawman and you know it. The F-18C has an AA/AG radar, TGP, long range radar guided missiles, anti shipping missiles, MITL weapons, anti radiation missiles, GBUs, LGBs, in addition to its dumb bomb armament.