rlogue Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Don't get me wrong ... Blackshark may be great and worth every penny .. but the issues brought up here for the a10 / f15 .. well, if you fly these birds, and they didn't do anything to them .. don't buy blackshark ... if they did work on them .. then in my mind, money well spent.
Coffee999 Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Don't get me wrong ... Blackshark may be great and worth every penny .. but the issues brought up here for the a10 / f15 .. well, if you fly these birds, and they didn't do anything to them .. don't buy blackshark ... if they did work on them .. then in my mind, money well spent. Well, unfortunatly rlogue, you are right. I had always planned on buying BS, but mainly for the inprovments and no so much for the KA-50. It looks kind of fun, but my interest always have, and will continue to be the A10 and F15.
Red Star Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 The only updates I have seen concerning the F-15 is the new model for the AIM-120B and the addition of the AIM-120C. Has anyone seen any other information on the 15? Has anyone seen anything concerning the A-10. I used to scoff at anyone hinting that ED was being biased against the west and its equipment but now even I am having my doubts. :(
Coffee999 Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 The only updates I have seen concerning the F-15 is the new model for the AIM-120B and the addition of the AIM-120C. Has anyone seen any other information on the 15? Has anyone seen anything concerning the A-10. I used to scoff at anyone hinting that ED was being biased against the west and its equipment but now even I am having my doubts. :( I don't know if I would use the word biase, I just think it a shame they don't make some major improvements to these two aricraft they were good enough to initially put in there product. I know they've made some small ones early on. I just hate to see the states, and anyone one eles that consentraights on the 10 and 15 to stop buying the LO series. I just fear it's going to die here long before LOBS dies overall.
SwingKid Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 The only updates I have seen concerning the F-15 is the new model for the AIM-120B and the addition of the AIM-120C. Has anyone seen any other information on the 15? Has anyone seen anything concerning the A-10. There have been suggestions that Black Shark might include actual Georgian airbases (for the first time ever in ED's ten-years history - outside of Russian-occupied territory!) for Western aircraft to operate from. That would make me happy! :) "No promises.." -SK
Coffee999 Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 There have been suggestions that Black Shark might include actual Georgian airbases (for the first time ever in ED's ten-years history - outside of Russian-occupied territory!) for Western aircraft to operate from. That would make me happy! :) "No promises.." -SK That would be a good addition.
ED Team Groove Posted May 6, 2006 ED Team Posted May 6, 2006 http://www.wimp.com/thunder/ In this video you can see the a-10 hud with the aim-9 armed. check the 1m 35s frame ! Its only one second or so but check it out if you want :D Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en
bflagg Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Which is exactly why it makes sense to deploy as much effort and time as possible on the creation of its replacement, instead of continually patching the dying beast. You could never patch LO enough to make it into something it isn't. You just made my point. Before the decision to switch to BS only thing that was done was the SU-25t. This beast could very still be VERY much be alive if some other addons could be done. Shiat.. I would fork over $50 usd for a proper F15 and it's counterpart nemisis. Why not the A10 to match the su-25? ...anyway this conversation is moot and nothing good will come of it... so peace to all... Thanks, Brett
S77th-GOYA Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 12-20 member development team trying to stay in business for OUR pleasure. If OUR pleasure is their motivation for staying in business, I'll eat my keyboard. But that begs the question, who is included in your use of the word "OUR"? I have serious doubts about whether or not I will buy BS when it comes out. I have no interest in the Ka-50 and I don't see any planned improvements to the things that are limiting LO now. LOMAC's engine has been named as the reason for not being able to correct certain problems and yet ED keeps adding to it. I've heard the programmer that wrote the code for the Mission Editor no longer works for ED so improvements to it are unlikely. Another dead end. It has been stated that since 1C is funding the developement of the add-ons, they are tailored to the CIS market. For people interested in Western aircraft, another dead end. I don't know what 1C has asked of ED but seeing another 1C product that is sold worldwide and is not focused on the CIS leaves me somewhat skeptical. The popularity of that product is unparalleled in the combat flight sim community. Yes, props v jets isn't a fair fight as far as popularity goes, but the difference in the focus is still there.
SwingKid Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 I have serious doubts about whether or not I will buy BS when it comes out. I have no interest in the Ka-50 and I don't see any planned improvements to the things that are limiting LO now. LOMAC's engine has been named as the reason for not being able to correct certain problems and yet ED keeps adding to it. I've heard the programmer that wrote the code for the Mission Editor no longer works for ED so improvements to it are unlikely. Another dead end. It has been stated that since 1C is funding the developement of the add-ons, they are tailored to the CIS market. For people interested in Western aircraft, another dead end. I don't know what 1C has asked of ED but seeing another 1C product that is sold worldwide and is not focused on the CIS leaves me somewhat skeptical. The popularity of that product is unparalleled in the combat flight sim community. Yes, props v jets isn't a fair fight as far as popularity goes, but the difference in the focus is still there. No disrespect intended, but what is it that you're trying to say here? If it's that Il-2 popularity is out of reach for a modern air combat sim, then Falcon 4 sales disproves that. If it's that ED should focus on other things besides adding a new flyable, well, we've already had (and lost) that argument: http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=6654 If it's that the Mission Editor programmer is gone - what's the complaint about the Mission Editor? If it's about the "great anti-Western ED conspiracy" - do you see any improvements planned for existing Russian aircraft? Ka-50 is a Ka-50. It helps MiG-29, Su-27 and Su-25 issues far less than the new AIM-120C, AH-1, Chaparral, Strykers and Georgian airbases help the Western side. I like to agree and discuss when we're being objective, but these last posts... -SK
hitman Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 http://www.wimp.com/thunder/ In this video you can see the a-10 hud with the aim-9 armed. check the 1m 35s frame ! Its only one second or so but check it out if you want :D That reminds me of the videos I used to find on warthogpen.com. Wonder if he will ever post them vids again...devils dance and the other one he had.
S77th-GOYA Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 I like to agree and discuss when we're being objective, but these last posts... I'm not trying to be objective. Whether or not I buy BS is purely subjective. And it was really in response to the claim that ED is in business for "our" pleasure. Surely "my" pleasure is part of "our" pleasure.
Ice Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Why should Lock On be the only software on this planet that is perfect?. All sims / games have bugs-inefficiencies for their shelf life. If you dont like the product or the way its handled. Buy something that offers you the same realism and choice of aircraft. I wish you luck in finding it. My message to ED. Thank you for being the only Modern Jet Sim Developer left that hasnt thrown in the towel and said "stuff you all". Posts like these must make you feel that way sometimes.
Ardillita Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 so... Unfortunately, fixing the current cockpits would be too much work - they want instead to move the aircraf tto the new cockpit technology (ie. Black Shark's) but when this will happen is anyone's guess. Fixing the old ones is pretty much a waste of time. So... basically you are saying: "everybody who doesn´t buy the new BS, will be on your own, your bugs will never be fixed..." This is the kind of support BS will also have?
Jester_159th Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 I'm not trying to be objective. Whether or not I buy BS is purely subjective. And it was really in response to the claim that ED is in business for "our" pleasure. Surely "my" pleasure is part of "our" pleasure. True enough. But "your" pleasure is no more important than anyone elses. And to expect "your" wishes to be treated with preference is unrealistic. There's no single company anywhere on the face of this planet that can truthfully claim to totally satisfy every single customer's every wish. As you say, the decision to buy or not to buy is subjective. Quite rightly you're going to base your decision on your needs and desires. I fully agree with you. I'll be doing exactly the same. However, if ED have made a business decision to not put any further work into any of the existing flyables, then I'm sure they have what are to them sound business reasons for doing so. On this score the only fault I can point to is a lack of info on Black Shark's features, but that could well be due to the list not being finalised at this point (even though it seems to me fairly late in the day for them to be adding new features if they want to meet their estimated release date). LOMAC does without doubt have some deficiencies, but it's hardly likely that with Black Shark nearing completion and a new product already announced, that ED are going to spending money on resources to make major improvements to a product that's going to be superceded. To be perfectly honest, I doubt there's a single business minded member of this forum that would seriously consider doing much different in their shoes.
Ardillita Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 amen... ...anyway this conversation is moot and nothing good will come of it... so peace to all... totally true... if something has been proved is that Ed seems not to hear the players. That is the only explanation I have to still see some bugs not being fixed, and many features request. This forum could easily be taken as a demostration of what sim players want, but Ed seems not to hear.
rlogue Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Why should Lock On be the only software on this planet that is perfect?. All sims / games have bugs-inefficiencies for their shelf life. If you dont like the product or the way its handled. Buy something that offers you the same realism and choice of aircraft. I wish you luck in finding it. My message to ED. Thank you for being the only Modern Jet Sim Developer left that hasnt thrown in the towel and said "stuff you all". Posts like these must make you feel that way sometimes. I think you missed some of the points, I have not a problem if they don't patch up FC, if however they don't fix some of the issues and they carry over into they next version (BS) ... we (15's and 10's) would be fools to purchase it. Not to mention, I think your mentallity is seriously flawed .. these people purchased it, they have a right to put in their gripes.
rlogue Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Thank you for being the only Modern Jet Sim Developer left that hasnt thrown in the towel and said "stuff you all". Posts like these must make you feel that way sometimes. Just out of curiosity .. which developers threw in the towel and said stuff you ? not trying to be smart .. I just have no idea who you are refering to ?
Ice Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Off the Top of my Head.. DID, Microsprose, Jane's, UbiShaft, Anyone else care to add a few more ?
rlogue Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Off the Top of my Head.. DID, Microsprose, Jane's, UbiShaft, Anyone else care to add a few more ? Those are modern ?
Ardillita Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 well Why should Lock On be the only software on this planet that is perfect?. All sims / games have bugs-inefficiencies for their shelf life. If you dont like the product or the way its handled. Buy something that offers you the same realism and choice of aircraft. I wish you luck in finding it. My message to ED. Thank you for being the only Modern Jet Sim Developer left that hasnt thrown in the towel and said "stuff you all". Posts like these must make you feel that way sometimes. Well... I bought LO and then FC. After LO came patch 1.01 may bugs were never corrected, and with the patch some new bugs came... with 1.02 more bugs were still not fixed, and new ones came! Then I bought FC. Don´t misunderstand me. Despite the bgs, LO seemed to me a great sim... My hope was that with every patch the sim woulkd be improved, in my opinion I was wrong New hope ame with FC and its patchs, were improvemts? It would be nice to list the improvements the new addon brought and the new bugs. Do you want an example, just one? The ewr, were "god" in LO, and still seems to see "everything" now. So, it is not the point to say "it is not perfect and if you don´t like look for something else" the proper thing would be that ED take responsabilities with those who paid for the product, and instead of going ahead, just fix, REALLY fix, the bad things. Wouldn´t this action really improve the sim and make it what ED promised? The best jet sim? Basically with BS seems that we will be paying for the fixing of the previous bugs. If we want all the previous bugs fixed, we will have to buy BS.
rlogue Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Well... I bought LO and then FC. After LO came patch 1.01 may bugs were never corrected, and with the patch some new bugs came... with 1.02 more bugs were still not fixed, and new ones came! Then I bought FC. Don´t misunderstand me. Despite the bgs, LO seemed to me a great sim... My hope was that with every patch the sim woulkd be improved, in my opinion I was wrong New hope ame with FC and its patchs, were improvemts? It would be nice to list the improvements the new addon brought and the new bugs. Do you want an example, just one? The ewr, were "god" in LO, and still seems to see "everything" now. So, it is not the point to say "it is not perfect and if you don´t like look for something else" the proper thing would be that ED take responsabilities with those who paid for the product, and instead of going ahead, just fix, REALLY fix, the bad things. Wouldn´t this action really improve the sim and make it what ED promised? The best jet sim? Basically with BS seems that we will be paying for the fixing of the previous bugs. If we want all the previous bugs fixed, we will have to buy BS. Maybe, I haven't heard about any bugs in the 10's or 15's being fixed, just adding a helicopter .. now before a war starts .. I could be wrong .. if I am, please correct me, but as far as i've heard, the 15 you fly now, will be unchanged in BS.
Guest Cali Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Modern jets are harder to find info on then those old rusted WWII aircraft. Yes there are going to be things that are not correct, but in time they will be fixed as more info is released. Radar and missiles are hard to model, I think ED has done a great job in it so far. I know for me with 1.12a the 120's are thrash now. They don't track half the time and the range is shorter. But hey we have to adapt, and nothing is PERFECT. If anyone has info to give ED on modern jets then give it to them, if it's declassifed
S77th-GOYA Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Modern jets are harder to find info on then those old rusted WWII aircraft. What's the WEP power-on stall speed of the P-38L in combat flaps configuration at normal combat gross weight? Show me proof of that and I guarentee I'll buy BS. :)
Floyd Posted May 6, 2006 Posted May 6, 2006 Modern jets are harder to find info on then those old rusted WWII aircraft. Yes there are going to be things that are not correct, but in time they will be fixed as more info is released. Radar and missiles are hard to model, I think ED has done a great job in it so far. I know for me with 1.12a the 120's are thrash now. They don't track half the time and the range is shorter. But hey we have to adapt, and nothing is PERFECT. If anyone has info to give ED on modern jets then give it to them, if it's declassifed Makes me wonder what the "ED Testers Team" tested ... and if you want us to adept i'll ask you to what? This "sim" is going downhill - just the same way we saw it with F/A-18.
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