Curves

[Toxic]

I just want to start out by saying how much I love the Mi-8 & Huey by Belsimtek.

 

Have a quick question about the huey though.

 

I have a +15 Curve set on my forward & aft movement and my left to right movement set for the cyclic (X & Y axis). Flying the huey for a bit it seems very very touchy.

 

Just wanted to know who has curves set and how it works out for them. :thumbup:

 

Thanks!

Edited April 29, 2015 by Toxic
spelling

[Fakum]

for me,, after reading endless posts,,, the majority favor no curves at all,, there are alot of reasons for this, and I must admit I agree with them,,, yeah,,, its kinda tough, but once you really put some hours into it,, it will not be so difficult.

[USSInchon]

I find curves a bit like training wheels. They are great when you are starting out, however as your comfort with the handling increases, turn down the curve until it's gone.

[Socket7]

The huey is always touchy. It's one of the reasons I like the MI-8 more.

 

I like to keep my curves as low as possible to maintain a linear response.

 

Instead of using curves, I turn down the saturation. Try turning it down to 50% and then working upwards.

 

If you turn your saturation on the cyclic down to 50%, then you'll double the range of movement you have to make with your joystick to deflect your cyclic any given amount. To use the full range of the cyclic, you'll have to use the trim button to change the centering point of the cyclic.

 

As you get used to flying, turn up the saturation to as high as you can stand. I think I'm around 75% now.

[Toxic]

The huey is always touchy. It's one of the reasons I like the MI-8 more.

 

I like to keep my curves as low as possible to maintain a linear response.

 

Instead of using curves, I turn down the saturation. Try turning it down to 50% and then working upwards.

 

If you turn your saturation on the cyclic down to 50%, then you'll double the range of movement you have to make with your joystick to deflect your cyclic any given amount. To use the full range of the cyclic, you'll have to use the trim button to change the centering point of the cyclic.

 

As you get used to flying, turn up the saturation to as high as you can stand. I think I'm around 75% now.

 

Thanks Socket! I'll just stick to my trusty Mi-8.

 

I enjoy your videos too

[msalama]

As I've said before, there's no one correct answer to this. I've seen comments by professional pilots stating that with these short-throw and coarse (i.e. low input resolution & grainy A/D conversion) sticks we have, flying helos is actually much _harder_ than IRL. OK, some folks prefer linear response and all fine with that; but do not dismiss curves as "just training wheels", because some sticks out there are just too twitchy without.

 

As for me, well you couldn't make me abandon them if you put a gun to my head! I could do away with them if I extended the stick shaft by a foot or so; but the coarse electronics would still be there, so why bother? Naaah. Curves it is for me, unless and until I switch to a dedicated high-quality helicopter controller ;)

[WildBillKelsoe]

In the DCS manual I believe the real stick deflects 16.something centimeters (28 cm total) so if you own TMwarthog, consider using the stick extension modification without curves. But since I use CH stick, I'll reply with my values (caveat, linear response is the best response to go with on all skill levels):

 

Deadzone pitch and roll 2

Curves pitch and roll and rudder 25 (still experimenting).

 

Keep in mind that using trim is required with curves as trim just moves the neutral zone to newer physical stick position, which is good for cruise flying but once you need to make that sudden stop and land (in campaign for example), you must reset trim (LCTRL+T). Before doing so, I drop collective for nose down then simultaneously reset trim as nose comes up naturally during deceleration. The rest onward is locating a new neutral position for the hover and landing.

[Cibit]

Toxic what stick setup do you have. I had curves with my x52 but none for the warthog. My favourite curves though are 38 28 40 ;)

[DieHard]

for me,, after reading endless posts,,, the majority favor no curves at all,, there are alot of reasons for this, and I must admit I agree with them,,, yeah,,, its kinda tough, but once you really put some hours into it,, it will not be so difficult.

 

I fly the Shark with no curves on all settings except, the cyclic "Y" axis I use some for weapons aiming.

 

The Huey, I try doing the same, but I am still experimenting, especially with hover.

 

The Mi-8, still is early setup, I have not flown her very much.

 

My thoughts are, leave settings at default and just put in lots of hours flying the aircraft and develop a sensitive feel with my joystick, which is a CH Products Fighterstick.

 

The Ka-50 is my main ride in DCS (DCS is all I fly, lately, a year or two) and I bet I have well over a thousand hours flying her in the sim, probably much more than that. The Huey probably 100 to 200 hours, if that. Setting Dead Zone above zero just plainly feels too sloppy for me and ditto using curves. I control my Fighterstick at its base, the large diameter circle. I have had the Fighterstick about 5 years and still find no need to use Dead Zone.

 

I use the stock default cyclic trimmer in the Ka-50 where I make a move, click trimmer button, then hands off let it go to its zero point, like in BS1. I try to do same in Huey, but rudder trimmer is not checked in Special.

 

I have never flown a real copter of any kind and in the sim I am self-taught, trial and error. I have nothing to base experience with as a comparison. And each of these birds are unique to themselves, just because I can fly the Shark pretty good has nothing to do with the Huey or Mi-8.

Edited November 30, 2015 by DieHard

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I have a few hours in an R22 and that's much more twitchy than the DCS Huey, even with no curves. Practice, practice.

 

A good controller helps too though.

[msalama]

A good controller helps too though.

 

Yah, but they're all too short anyway, good or bad. So curves it is for me until I can afford a Comodo or something, I'm afraid...

[Crash *]

I don´t use curves. It´s all linear.

No deadzone. I have an X52 Pro. It don´t need a deadzone.

 

But I like the Huey and the Mi-8 most. There I need a bit of modifikation cause the Joystick is too short. It´s not 1:1 to the reality.

 

Tried curves....to spongy.

 

Tried saturation Y on 80% (Stick 100% = Sim just 80%) Feels better in slow moving, but is a problem when you need fullrange for flight maneuvers.

 

Tried saturation X on 80% (Stick 80% = Sim 100%) Sounds contraproductive, but it compensates the short Stick lenght. For now it is my prefered setting. Now i can steer the Huey with minimal Force like a real Pilot. No need to move the Sticke like a vegas Onearmed Bandit slotmashine.

[LCYCowboy]

No curves and Komodo sim products works for me (although we need some Force Trim to make it perfect Rich ;) )

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Yah, but they're all too short anyway, good or bad. So curves it is for me until I can afford a Comodo or something, I'm afraid...

 

No, that's my point, if you have a good controller it doesn't matter that it's short.

[msalama]

No, that's my point, if you have a good controller it doesn't matter that it's short.

 

I disagree, because it's still too short compared to the real thing, and that makes the feel/action completely different. So even a good short-throw controller isn't realistic even if it feels comfortable and controllable, because ba-da-bing, the throw is still too short! Elementary physics, my friend, elementary physics ;)

 

But hey, if folks feel they can hack it without curves, fine, more power to them. Just don't dismiss curves as a "learning aid" or "training wheels" because for some, they really ARE a necessity.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Before patronising me, I suggest actually reading what I wrote.

[msalama]

Before patronising me, I suggest actually reading what I wrote.

 

Not patronizing anyone, merely pointing out that a short-throw JS doesn't (and can't) behave like a conventional long-throw cyclic, plus defending curves for those who really need them. That is all.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Not patronizing anyone, merely pointing out that a short-throw JS doesn't (and can't) behave like a conventional long-throw cyclic, plus defending curves for those who really need them. That is all.

 

You don't need to defend the use of curves because I never attacked them.

 

Stop saying a desktop controller can't behave like the real thing as if it's a matter of fact, because it's not. I expect I'm not the only one who would disagree with that statement.

[dotChuckles]

Unless, the stick in the real aircraft is 20cm long to the pivot point it can't behave like the real thing. End. Of. Discussion.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I guess I imagined my helo lesson last month then. Oh well.

[msalama]

a desktop controller can't behave like the real thing

Sure it can, if it has a long throw. Most don't. Although if it DOES, it's probably a floortop controller then :thumbup: Edited December 4, 2015 by msalama

[dotChuckles]

I guess I imagined my helo lesson last month then. Oh well.

 

How many inches of lateral movement do you require on your airframe to command a 1 degree per second pitch up? How many pounds of force is that to break out? How much does the dual spring in the control reduce that force over subsequent lateral pull? (I realise this point doesn't apply so much to hydraulic mechanical linkage. But the point of breakout force and commanded pitch/roll rate still stands.)

 

How many inches of throw does your desktop controller require to carry out the same manoeuvre? How many pounds of force? How far are the bump stops? This will not be the same unless the fulcrum is in the same place. End of. Period. Full stop.

 

You may perceive it as the same. That is a different matter.

 

And that's great that you had a lesson 'n all but you're not the only one with real world flying experience ;-)

Edited December 4, 2015 by dotChuckles

[msalama]

DotChuckles: exactamente.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

You may perceive it as the same.

 

Isn't that the whole point? :huh:

[dotChuckles]

Isn't that the whole point? :huh:

 

No.

 

You said...

 

"Stop saying a desktop controller can't behave like the real thing as if it's a matter of fact, because it's not."

 

be·have (bĭ-hāv′)

v. be·haved, be·hav·ing, be·haves

v.intr.

1.

a. To conduct oneself in a specified way, especially in relation to others; exhibit behavior: The child behaved badly at the party.

b. To conduct oneself in a proper way: I told the child to behave.

2. To act, react, function, or perform in a particular way: This fabric behaves well even in hot weather.

 

That's not feel like... it is act, react, function, or perform like. You said that a desktop controller can FUNCTION like a real one. You're changing terms here. You cannot move your hand in the same way on a desktop controller and then move your hand the same distance in your airframe to produce the same commanded control deflection.

 

If you use a desktop control to build muscle memory you are going to have a hard time flying your numbers. Procedural training great, go for you life. Airmanship training, big no-no.

Edited December 4, 2015 by dotChuckles