BimC Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I'm a bit stuck in the same choice of weapons and need inspiration for different choices and ideas. Often I find that the choice of equipment is not sufficient to carry out the mission, and ends with the same choice of weapons for all missions. AGM-65D * 6 CBU-97 * 4 or LGB-12 * 6 AIM-9, PODS, Gun etc ... heavy bird - I know :music_whistling: But I'm sure there are better choices for special occasions, and therefore wants your input for alternatives. I have examined several other combination, but can rarely find benefits they have without a price tag on it ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] _________________________________________________ WIN 10, i7-2600K at 3.4ghz, 2x OCZ Vertex 120GB SSD RAID 0, Corsair Vengeance 16GB, Gainward GeForce GTX 590, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, Track IR 5 PRO. DCS 1.5.3.52724.74 - DCS 2.0.2.52369 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimi_uy Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 A good all-around setup i use is 2x aim9, TGP, 2x 65D, 2x gbu12, 2x gbu38, mk5 rkt pod and ecm. Now PGMs are cool n shit, but the real fun is at the dumb bombs. Once u get the hang on the ripple settings, inventory settings and delivery settings for the 87, 82, 82air and 84 you'll realize it! CCIP is where the fun is! And dont use rambo/chuck norris loadouts, they aren't really used IRL. [sIGPIC]][/sIGPIC] Fuel Planning Tool | DCS: A-10C SADL MOD | Kimi's Arma 3 Mods | Twitch.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongHarm Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 For those situations that call for nothing short of brutal annihilation, I reach for my AGM-65K. It will have a 200+m effect on light armor or squishier (it shouldn't have twice the effect of a 2000lb bomb.. but it does in DCS). For Armor I like to spread the lovins with the trusty CBU-105. This WCMD is like a sawed off shotgun blast from the heavens. According to my tests, the 105 is more than 10 times more effective against light armor and troops than the 103 (though it shouldn't be.. but is in DCS).. so it's a one size fits all carnage, glorious instrument of destruction. Now, I don't want to downplay the use of the AGM-65D.. when I need to reach out and touch a single target, this is my fave because you can carry more of them. Although, it should be noted that if you want to try and stay true to IRL ordinance use, they only carry 4 instead of 6. AGM-65K = Mother of All Bombs (though it's a missile...) CBU-105 = Kill all, shotgun from the heavens AGM-65D = Sniper IRL 65D and iron bombs would be most common, but we have some ordinance disparities in DCS. They're only about 20% effective compared to RL figures.. so we must adjust accordingly. See http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135598 for analysis. I'll soon be publishing my full ordinance test results. It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marluk Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 For those situations that call for nothing short of brutal annihilation, I reach for my AGM-65K. It will have a 200+m effect on light armor or squishier (it shouldn't have twice the effect of a 2000lb bomb.. but it does in DCS). For Armor I like to spread the lovins with the trusty CBU-105. This WCMD is like a sawed off shotgun blast from the heavens. According to my tests, the 105 is more than 10 times more effective ... I agree. Just would like to add that CBU-97 and CBU-105 are basically the same. The difference is CBU-105 has Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser guidance tail kit, which converts it to a precision-guided weapon. If you must drop CBU from higher altitude, use CBU-105 instead of CBU-97. [B]*NOB* Lucky[/B] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Tko vrijedi leti, tko leti vrijedi, tko ne leti ne vrijedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 The thing with weapon choices that was taught to me by smarter individuals was that every release is designed to achieve an effect. The pilot has to decide what that desired effect is and decide how to use his weapons to achieve it. Every weapon excels in different areas so consider the effects those weapons can achieve before picking them up. Dispersed small groups of units don't favour CBUs while more concentrated armour formations do. Point targets are better serviced by Mavericks, the Gun, and dumb bombs in ripple twos. Mavericks on LAU-88s however have quickdraw available to them and so you can use that to engage a large concentration of hardened targets so carrying lots of Mavericks is clearly conceived to be an Anti-Armour loadout. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscar19681 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I tailor my loadout depending on The Intel and task Every single Mission And i never take anything i dont need to save weight. But when in stock campaign And i have to assist ground forces to take objectives i take all The mavs And cbu,s i can load. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I tailor my loadout depending on The Intel and task Every single Mission And i never take anything i dont need to save weight. Perfectly said! There is no such thing as a magical, one size fits all, load out. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongHarm Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Every weapon excels in different areas so consider the effects those weapons can achieve before picking them up. I agree with everyone's assessment on choosing the ordinance for the mission, but only if the ordinance in DCS was as realistic as it's flight model (instead of 20% effective), but when 105s work better for troops and soft targets than 103s, AGM-65Ks have twice the blast radius and PK of a 2000lb bomb, and you have to get a headshot with 30mm HEI to kill troops (exaggerate for effect); it's necessary to compensate. It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BimC Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 Thank you all for feedback. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] _________________________________________________ WIN 10, i7-2600K at 3.4ghz, 2x OCZ Vertex 120GB SSD RAID 0, Corsair Vengeance 16GB, Gainward GeForce GTX 590, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, Track IR 5 PRO. DCS 1.5.3.52724.74 - DCS 2.0.2.52369 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marluk Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) I agree with everyone's assessment on choosing the ordinance for the mission, but only if the ordinance in DCS was as realistic as it's flight model (instead of 20% effective), but when 105s work better for troops and soft targets than 103s, AGM-65Ks have twice the blast radius and PK of a 2000lb bomb, and you have to get a headshot with 30mm HEI to kill troops (exaggerate for effect); it's necessary to compensate. Yes, after reading your thread about weapon effectiveness in DCS I started to use AGM on bunch of infantry with great success. I know it is not realistic, but when dealing with unrealistic amount of enemies in mission, that require equal measures :). Also, I've read about 87s and 103s that they are better for infantry and soft targets, but I haven't succeed to kill anything with them. 1. I always read mission briefing and try to choose most appropriate weapons to accomplish the tasks. 2. Then, I start the mission. Sometimes there are no surprises and I fly mission successfully. 3. But funny guys sometimes put surprises in there, and I'm unable to finish mission successfully due some unpredicted events. So, for next attempt, I prepare inventory accordingly. I know, in real life you can't do this, but hay, this is simulation anyway. Here are my favorites for now: - GAU - AGM-65D (will try AGM-65K) - CBU-105 (high altitude/wind), CBU-97 (Lower altitude/wind) - GBU-12 - Rockets (HE) Edited May 26, 2015 by marluk [B]*NOB* Lucky[/B] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Tko vrijedi leti, tko leti vrijedi, tko ne leti ne vrijedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I agree with everyone's assessment on choosing the ordinance for the mission, but only if the ordinance in DCS was as realistic as it's flight model (instead of 20% effective), but when 105s work better for troops and soft targets than 103s, AGM-65Ks have twice the blast radius and PK of a 2000lb bomb, and you have to get a headshot with 30mm HEI to kill troops (exaggerate for effect); it's necessary to compensate. Whether the effects are realistic or not doesn't change the assessment though. When you assess the effects of the sim weapons you do the same thing, you just have to take into account its sim effect instead of its real life one. Like with the CBU-87, your assessment is, why the hell would I bother carrying this thing? :music_whistling: Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marluk Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Whether the effects are realistic or not doesn't change the assessment though. When you assess the effects of the sim weapons you do the same thing, you just have to take into account its sim effect instead of its real life one. Like with the CBU-87, your assessment is, why the hell would I bother carrying this thing? :music_whistling: Yes, I just mention that in previous post. Does anybody succeeded to kill anything with CBU-87(103)? If yes, how? [B]*NOB* Lucky[/B] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Tko vrijedi leti, tko leti vrijedi, tko ne leti ne vrijedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BimC Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) I recall seeing Ralfidude formating a whole convoy to ashes with a pair of CBU-87 It may also have been CBU-97, not quite sure. Ralfi? EDIT: It was Gerry Abbott Edited May 28, 2015 by BimC [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] _________________________________________________ WIN 10, i7-2600K at 3.4ghz, 2x OCZ Vertex 120GB SSD RAID 0, Corsair Vengeance 16GB, Gainward GeForce GTX 590, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, Track IR 5 PRO. DCS 1.5.3.52724.74 - DCS 2.0.2.52369 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Both CBU-87 and CBU-97 are great against convoys. You just have to set the HOF and RPM correctly for the 87. Most people leave it like it is and that is not optimal IMO. The 476th has great footprint tables. Just google "DCS 476th download footprint", you can download the pdf from the 476th homepage. EDIT: Against a not too widely spread convoy I use something like: Ripple pairs, HOF=700, RPM=900 (or even lower RPM if you can drop them precisely) EDIT2: Here's a vid explaining it: Edited May 26, 2015 by Aginor DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Yeah, the default HOF/RPM for the CEM is not good at all (it's also wrong for the SFW). In DCS you need much lower HOF/RPM settings than in reality to get reasonable effects on target, the big downside is that you therefore get a vastly smaller footprint than in reality as well. Spoiler Intel 13900K (5Ghz), 64Gb 6400Mhz, MSi RTX 3090, Schiit Modi/Magi DAC/AMP, ASUS PG43UQ, Hotas Warthog, RealSimulator FSSB3, 2x TM MFDs + DCS MFDs, MFG Crosswinds, Elgato Steamdeck XL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 And btw: Don't fly that low. That's a thing the guy in the vid doesn't do well IMO. A Shilka or even a BMP could shoot you down if you do it that way. But the vid shows how to set the HOF and RPM nicely. Against a longer convoy ripple single with a spacing of 200 is also good if the convoy consists of soft targets. For tanks I would use pairs. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongHarm Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Attached are pictures that will be in the ordinance analysis I'm working on: 103 left, 105 on the right. As you can see (unlike IRL) the 105 is much more effective against troops than the 103. Same point of impact, same HOF. You'll find similar effects against unarmored vehicles. Again, ED and DCS are awesome.. they just need to give some attention to ordinance. It'll happen.. It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Has anyone done an analysis that goes beyond the effects and into the realm of "why"? Is it just the old bugbear of no fragmentation effect that's making the 87s/103s underpowered? Reading about the BLU-97/B bomblets it deploys it seems they use shaped charge, incendiary, and fragmentation effects. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 The DCS CEM has less than half the submunitions it should do (202 in reality). That combined with the damage modelling in DCS is the issue. In order to give the weapon half a chance of performing properly against soft skinned and light armour, the blast damage power would have to be cranked up so much I think it would then be far too powerful vs heavy armour. Classic catch 22 resulting from the current modelling of weapons in general. Oh and Strongharm, it's ordnance, not ordinance. Two very different things there fella. Spoiler Intel 13900K (5Ghz), 64Gb 6400Mhz, MSi RTX 3090, Schiit Modi/Magi DAC/AMP, ASUS PG43UQ, Hotas Warthog, RealSimulator FSSB3, 2x TM MFDs + DCS MFDs, MFG Crosswinds, Elgato Steamdeck XL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 What Eddie said is spot on I think. Oh, and I am somewhat relieved that I am not the only one who makes the ordinance!=ordnance mistake occasionally. :) DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongHarm Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Why thank you Eddie, I appreciate your taking such an interest in my personal development. You're a sensitive guy. I'll be speling write in no time. :) It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marluk Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) Both CBU-87 and CBU-97 are great against convoys. You just have to set the HOF and RPM correctly for the 87. Most people leave it like it is and that is not optimal IMO. The 476th has great footprint tables. Just google "DCS 476th download footprint", you can download the pdf from the 476th homepage. EDIT: Against a not too widely spread convoy I use something like: Ripple pairs, HOF=700, RPM=900 (or even lower RPM if you can drop them precisely) EDIT2: Here's a vid explaining it: Thank you for instructions. I know how to set HOF and RPM. I'm doing that when using CBU-97(105) regularly. I tried with lower values, but without noticeable success. I must admit that I didn't devoted much time to study CBU-103(87), maybe I'm missing something. I will try to setup test mission and compare effectiveness of 87vs97 on infantry. Attached are pictures that will be in the ordinance analysis I'm working on: 103 left, 105 on the right. As you can see (unlike IRL) the 105 is much more effective against troops than the 103. Same point of impact, same HOF. You'll find similar effects against unarmored vehicles. Again, ED and DCS are awesome.. they just need to give some attention to ordinance. It'll happen.. I've got the same impression. Anyway, my conclusion is that you must choose weapons according insim effectiveness, not the real world application. Edited May 28, 2015 by marluk [B]*NOB* Lucky[/B] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Tko vrijedi leti, tko leti vrijedi, tko ne leti ne vrijedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimi_uy Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 You shouldn't use the 97/105 against infantry. It's desinged to kill (armored) vehicles. Here's a detailed explanation on how the bomb works, you'll see what a I mean... [sIGPIC]][/sIGPIC] Fuel Planning Tool | DCS: A-10C SADL MOD | Kimi's Arma 3 Mods | Twitch.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) You shouldn't use the 97/105 against infantry. It's desinged to kill (armored) vehicles. Here's a detailed explanation on how the bomb works, you'll see what a I mean... That's right, the 97 isn't meant to be employed against infantry/light armor. But based on the desired effect on the target, you should take into account what Eddie said and perhaps carry along the 97 in DCS because of the difference between real life and DCS. This actually raises a question from my side: do the 97's Skeets in DCS 'detect' infantry? As for reality, a Skeet uses both a laser and IR to detect vehicles, I wonder whether the Skeet's IR detection would home in on body heat alone and therefore target infantry. Edited May 28, 2015 by Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marluk Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Grand has the point. [B]*NOB* Lucky[/B] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Tko vrijedi leti, tko leti vrijedi, tko ne leti ne vrijedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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