DCS: F-5E!

[pepin1234]

The Maverick was a very late add for few exported units. You need wait for a F-4 to be a multitask fighter.

 

The F-5 is not the right fighter to face Mig-29 or whatever modern 4th gen. But anyway you can do it. There are some MP missions for Mig-21 and M-2000. The Mig-21 have not BVR like Mirage, but the Mig people enjoy to try do the best against a BVR fighter.

 

We can always face the 21 vs F-5, will be pretty enjoyable. Just wait.

[RoflSeal]

Yeah, that's whats putting me off the F-5 at the moment. No mention of any A-G guided weapons. The MiG-21 (which BST has said is its competitor) at least has the Grom.

 

Also, anyone know if we are getting any chaff/flare. I dunno if US F-5 were fitted with such but foreign F-5 were, the type that I find are chaff/flare pod just infront of the tail on the sides or near the landing gear.

 

 

 

Then again I also found this

 

[ame]https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1982/1982%20-%202151.PDF[/ame]

Edited January 12, 2016 by RoflSeal

[Kev2go]

Well I guess the f5e could just get the agm12 Bullpup as a counterpart to the groms.

 

The groms are mostly used as anti shipping missiles and maybe against a large target like a building. not good against tanks. It's only beam guided.

 

I don't mind it not having mavericks it's supposed to represent a mostly basic factory f5 with some upgrades

The rwr and the an 159 radar. The f5e is supposed to compete against the mig21bis. And its a cheap export fighter not some state of the art system.

 

I get the impression some people expected the f5 to be like a f16a light or something

 

That taken into consideration it's still will be a better fighter bomber than the mig21 due to having a larger ordinance carry capacity. It will have gbu12 for buddy lasing

 

As long as it gets the aim9p 4/5 to compensate for its small missile capacity. The ones coverted to all aspects then it'll be good enough for me.

 

Don't forget the f5e. Err I mean mig28 that will be needed for opposing faction for fighting the f14 tomcat. ;)

Edited January 12, 2016 by Kev2go

[RoflSeal]

Well I guess the f5e could just get the agm12 Bullpup as a counterpart to the groms.

 

The groms are mostly used as anti shipping missiles and maybe against a large target like a building. not good against tanks. It's only beam guided.

 

I don't mind it not having mavericks it's supposed to represent a mostly basic factory f5 with some upgrades

The rwr and the an 159 radar. The f5e is supposed to compete against the mig21bis. And its a cheap export fighter not some state of the art system.

 

That taken into consideration it's still will be a better fighter bomber than the mig21 due to having a larger ordinance carry capacity. It will have gbu12 for buddy lasing

 

As long as it gets the aim9p 4/5. The ones coverted to all aspects then it'll be good enough for me.

 

Grom can definately take out a tank, especially if its stationary or moving parrallel to you.

[Kev2go]

Grom can definately take out a tank, especially if its stationary or moving parrallel to you.

 

It's not ideal because it wasn't designed for that groms have a tendency of landing over or under small targets like tanks damaging them but not killing them very often.( partially the eds fault for not modelling splash & shrapnel effects very well.) It's not really possible to lock the beam or self guide it precisely on point using just a gunsight. Grom would need a TV camera with zoom to make accurate adjustments onto a tanks Which is why it will never make a good tank busting weapon. I honest have better success using s24 rockets or the bombs

 

Agm12 wasn't really good either. But it's probably the most similar thing you can find in us arsenal to the groms. Instead of being beam guided it relies on pilot using a small rc joystick to guide missile onto the desired target.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Kev2go

[mattebubben]

Well I guess the f5e could just get the agm12 Bullpup as a counterpart to the groms.

 

The groms are mostly used as anti shipping missiles and maybe against a large target like a building. not good against tanks. It's only beam guided.

 

I don't mind it not having mavericks it's supposed to represent a mostly basic factory f5 with some upgrades

The rwr and the an 159 radar. The f5e is supposed to compete against the mig21bis. And its a cheap export fighter not some state of the art system.

 

I get the impression some people expected the f5 to be like a f16a light or something

 

That taken into consideration it's still will be a better fighter bomber than the mig21 due to having a larger ordinance carry capacity. It will have gbu12 for buddy lasing

 

As long as it gets the aim9p 4/5 to compensate for its small missile capacity. The ones coverted to all aspects then it'll be good enough for me.

 

Don't forget the f5e. Err I mean mig28 that will be needed for opposing faction for fighting the f14 tomcat. ;)

 

Plenty of F-5Es came with AGM-65 compatabillity.

 

And they still had the APQ-159 just with a different display that had a "TV" mode to show the seeker data from the Maverick.

 

The APQ-159-1 and 159-2 sets had the Display that was compatible with the Maverick (1 being the 1 seater and 2 being the 2seater with displays for both pilots)

 

While the APQ-159-3 and 159-4 are the variants that lacked the TV mode so they could not operate the Mav.

 

They were both developed at the same time and customers had the option of either variant (they both came for new built aircraft out of the factory)

 

The variant stated to be in the F-5E we are getting is the APQ-159-3 so no mav capabillity sadly =(.

 

I would LOOVE to have the mav capable variant but il probably get it anyway =P will just be less hyped about it.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Take some Viggens with you for the SEAD and other heavy duties then clean up the area with the F-5 :D

[TomCatMucDe]

How is Aim-9P4 late 80s ?

 

The Aim-9P4 enterd service the same time or earlier then the R-60M

(early to mid 80s.)

 

But a Mig-21PF would again be an earlier aircraft then the F-5E...

 

While the F-5E and Mig-21 are comparable in service dates.

 

and a Mig-21 with 4 R-60M missiles and 2 R3R is in no way weaker then having 2 Aim-9P4...

 

rather the opposite actually...

 

Aim-9L or Aim-9M are not realistic and are very much unlikley.

 

But Aim-9P4 (or the slightly improved Aim-9P5)

Are realistic for any F-5E "stock" variant.

 

An Aim-9P4 is a Aim-9P3 (wich is likley to be the Aim-9P modeld ingame)

 

with a All aspect seeker (slightly simpler variant of the Aim-9L seekerhead)

 

But it retains the rocket motor / Body of the Aim-9P3

 

So its no more agile then the Aim-9P3 and as such is not as deadly in a dogfight as a Aim-9L or Aim-9M as its not as agile.

 

I think indeed that the MIG 21 with so many missiles is way better than the F5E with just 2 missiles. Especially head on fights, the R3R can make the difference and eventually end the fight right there, unless the AIM 9P has a longer range, and is really accurate from distance.

[Ultra]

It seems fairly even to me. If the Mig comes in with a bunch of missiles and doesn't kill the F-5 before the merge, the F-5 should be able to out maneuver the heavier and worse instant. turning Mig. If the Mig plays his cards right he can kill the F-5 head-on before the merge or at least put the F-5 enough on the defensive to maneuver into position for the kill.

[TomCatMucDe]

It seems fairly even to me. If the Mig comes in with a bunch of missiles and doesn't kill the F-5 before the merge, the F-5 should be able to out maneuver the heavier and worse instant. turning Mig. If the Mig plays his cards right he can kill the F-5 head-on before the merge or at least put the F-5 enough on the defensive to maneuver into position for the kill.

 

just 4 missiles, 2xR3R and 2xR13M1. The F5 will have a hard time evading the R3R. When it does defend, it would go into a merge with in a bad situation.

 

For sure it comes to the pilote skill, but in equal skills, the F5 is at a big disadvantage without radar missiles.

[Ultra]

Is the F-5 equipped with a chaff lancher? If so, that would make it much easier to evade R3R. They are old missiles after all.

[cofcorpse]

Also, anyone know if we are getting any chaff/flare.

 

Is the F-5 equipped with a chaff lancher?

 

Yes, we will have countermeasures launcher. However, it has limited capacity 15/30 flares and 30/60 chaffs.

[TomCatMucDe]

they are very deadly in game, probably over powered. But still, you need normally to change course while dispensing chaff, it forces you to maneuvre. That alone is bad enough. the mig can easily get into your six. I see the radar missiles not only a tool to kill they give a tactical advantage at the merge.

[spiddx]

They are old missiles after all.

 

Not really the case in game though. R3R are very hard to avoid.

[Ultra]

I think they make a big difference, but I don't think they'll give the Mig a huge advantage overall. I doubt the performance in game currently is realistic. Hopefully it will be modified, then we'll see how it plays out.

[OxideMako]

Not really the case in game though. R3R are very hard to avoid.

 

IIRC they are supposed to be much worse than they are currently. They are FAR too effective against maneuvering targets. (They are basically a GAR-8 with a radar seeker) Instead they perform like much more modern missiles, albeit with a shorter range.

 

Although missile performance is a highly controversial topic around here, pretty much everything except the AIM-9M is seriously under or over performing is some respects. Hopefully LNS take a look at the R3R when the F5E comes out. No real reason to fix something when compared to AIM-120s the MiGs missiles are all terrible. Finally having a historical opponent should make it more of a priority.

Edited January 13, 2016 by OxideMako

[TomCatMucDe]

Yes the R3R is not realistic. But even if it was tuned down, tactically it is a huge advantage.

 

Let's say we start the fight and we are head on, I shoot the first missile from quite far, you are force to manoeuver, you easily defeat the second missile, meanwhile I got within a very good an effective range for the second missile. As soon as you try to turn to me to use your missiles, I shoot the second. It is still defeatable but you have to manoeuver hard and go to your 3/9. it will be easy for me to get behind you, I still have 2 IR missiles.

 

All this given we have equal skills. I really dont see how an F5 could stand a chance head on.

 

I dont know if the F5 could at all carry Radar missiles, but I wish it had. Then we can talk about realistic opponent to the 21. Maybe we have to wait for the F4 and Mirage III. The F4 would be better than the 21 but still it would be IMHO more balanced combat than F5 vs 21

[Ultra]

That scenario is accurate, but you better hope that first IR missile you fire hits it's target because then the fight starts to change quickly. I expect a lot of guns kills between these two planes.

[TomCatMucDe]

With equal skills I doubt that the MIG driver would waste 4 missiles without getting his kill. Especially after the merge.

I think it would be fair fights if we have MP servers with IR missiles or guns only. That would be fun !

[OxideMako]

Yes the R3R is not realistic. But even if it was tuned down, tactically it is a huge advantage.

 

Let's say we start the fight and we are head on, I shoot the first missile from quite far, you are force to manoeuver, you easily defeat the second missile, meanwhile I got within a very good an effective range for the second missile. As soon as you try to turn to me to use your missiles, I shoot the second. It is still defeatable but you have to manoeuver hard and go to your 3/9. it will be easy for me to get behind you, I still have 2 IR missiles.

 

All this given we have equal skills. I really dont see how an F5 could stand a chance head on.

 

I dont know if the F5 could at all carry Radar missiles, but I wish it had. Then we can talk about realistic opponent to the 21. Maybe we have to wait for the F4 and Mirage III. The F4 would be better than the 21 but still it would be IMHO more balanced combat than F5 vs 21

 

The AIM-7/search radar combo would give the F-4 a almost insurmountable advantage in anything but the merge IMO.

 

The F-5 will prove very tough for a MiG-21 as the F-5 radar is almost a full generation ahead, and has much better avionics/gunsight. (We are getting the superior AN/APQ-159 rather than the 153)

 

 

Like the earlier APQ-153, the APQ-159 was a purely air-to-air radar system.The radar offered no air-to-ground modes at all, nor was it capable of firing the AIM-7 Sparrow in spite of its BVR-capable range

 

 

The F-5 is better in all flight regimes bar speed, and should pick up the 21 before the 21 can pick up the F-5. Furthermore the AIM-9 outranges all the 21's missiles, even the R3R. If we get the AIM-9P4/5 the F-5 can then shoot head on as well.

 

The AIM-9P-4 is an incremental development of the AIM-9P-3, with an all aspect seeker using some of the technology developed for the AIM-9L.

 

Jumping an F-5 would then be the only way to consistently get a kill against an equally skilled pilot.

 

Of course, this assumes no CGI/AWACS on both sides. 21's with that kind of support vs standalone F-5s would be much more interesting.(IMO)

Edited January 13, 2016 by OxideMako

[openfalcon68]

I noticed today an F-5E-3 AI model in DCS World 1.5.2.

Its model is way better than the F-5E and has three very nice aggressor skins.

Is this an AI version of the F-5E module everyone is talking about ?

 

Manish

[RoflSeal]

I think the biggest advantage of the F-5E vs the MiG-21 will be situational awareness.

 

Much better view from the cockpit + better radar + better RWR.

[TomCatMucDe]

Agree.

But that makes it an interesting fight with different skills of features and advantages.

[Ultra]

Agree.

But that makes it an interesting fight with different skills of features and advantages.

 

Agreed, I think they picked a good match-up in choosing the F-5E.

[OxideMako]

Agree.

But that makes it an interesting fight with different skills of features and advantages.

 

I am sure we wouldn't want it any other way!:D