"Buddy Spike" - DCS World Online Events

[BodyOrgan]

Mirage uses standard ED radar model. RVE training more then 2 months ago, did terrain mask and go sub 80 for the last few KM. 4 f15s tried to find me on radar. No success. And Map contacts were on so they did know where to search. It was testing/training combo thingy.

 

 

Either your testing was flawed or something has really changed.

 

 

 

Reaper said one of the most important things is having the patience to get there safely and that most people in blueflag do not have the patience. :D

I will test again. Can you tell me which helicopter you used? Perhaps the RCS has something to do with this.

[Frostie]

I'm sure flying below 150kph reduces detection range considerably due to DCS clutter notch. It's always been this way since Blackshark1 vs FC2.

[Frostie]

But hey its DCS and its ED and su27s and f15 still go over cratered runway as if it was as smooth as, I dunno, mirror for a telescope.

Are you sure this isn't down to the crater appearing before the client joins. If you bomb the runway then exit the server and rejoin, the runway will no longer be cratered, the only perma crater is for the server and AI.

[Frostie]

I'm not going to make a video for you. Just have a buddy fly a chopper slow while in a su27 VS mode. After that change su27 to F15. You will see the difference. Speed does make a difference if there is terrain behind you.

 

You need to know that there is a chopper there to begin with (otherwise why would you be in VS mode looking at the ground), that comes from intially picking them up on radar or GCI then when they go low and slow or land it then requires the EO scanning etc. This can be done with F-15 and A-10 AIM-9 seeker not as well as EO but still pretty effectively.

[microvax]

Are you sure this isn't down to the crater appearing before the client joins. If you bomb the runway then exit the server and rejoin, the runway will no longer be cratered, the only perma crater is for the server and AI.

 

yep 100% sure. Tested it multiple times with different bomb craters. All the planes somehow react to the craters F15 and su27 do not. I bug reported it more then a month ago to ED.

 

For example someone called in a b1b and it carpet bombed maykop after we captured it two huge craters on the runway. F15 which was with me in the air during the bombing, lands, goes over craters, 0 problem.

 

Micro tries to land at the edge of the crater because he knows that mirage gear will break, gear still broke. x).

[microvax]

I will test again. Can you tell me which helicopter you used? Perhaps the RCS has something to do with this.

 

Ka50. Just have one flying in a straight line over the water, spawn fighter 90 degrees angle off and fly higher then the helo.

[kobeshow]

Nice "testing" Micro, under those circumstances even fighters will disappear.

[microvax]

Nice "testing" Micro, under those circumstances even fighters will disappear.

 

Yeah. Thats what I am saying all the time. If a helicopter is in the notch he wont be on radar as a fighter would be in DCS. IRST doesnt suffer from this. Thats all I said. :D But people said nonono IRST worse then Radar at spotting helos in DCS. :D

 

AFAIK you wont be able to spot a helo moving at full steam on IRST at the ranges radar can.

I spoted MI8s in transit from like 20-30 miles from 45 000ft.

The only thing I am saying here IRST doesnt suffer from notch in look down, which is an huge advantage if you search better then average helo pilots.

Because better then average helo pilots know that and use that. Again, ask reaper, he did it all the time.

 

 

 

 

I dont get you people.

 

Just waiting for viggen and hopping at 15km range scale one can spot helos. RB05 helo hunting will be surpreme.

 

 

I am really tempted to create some redfor memez right now. :D

Edited November 12, 2016 by microvax

[Mosler]

Can i get team switch from red to blue pls, callsign: LF - Mosler

thanks in advance.

[kobeshow]

 

I dont get you people.

 

 

Don't worry, the people don't get you either.

[microvax]

Don't worry, the people don't get you either.

 

ehehe ;D only half way true

[BodyOrgan]

Yeah. Thats what I am saying all the time. If a helicopter is in the notch he wont be on radar as a fighter would be in DCS. IRST doesnt suffer from this. Thats all I said. :D But people said nonono IRST worse then Radar at spotting helos in DCS. :D

 

AFAIK you wont be able to spot a helo moving at full steam on IRST at the ranges radar can.

I spoted MI8s in transit from like 20-30 miles from 45 000ft.

The only thing I am saying here IRST doesnt suffer from notch in look down, which is an huge advantage if you search better then average helo pilots.

Because better then average helo pilots know that and use that. Again, ask reaper, he did it all the time.

 

 

 

 

I dont get you people.

 

Just waiting for viggen and hopping at 15km range scale one can spot helos. RB05 helo hunting will be surpreme.

 

 

I am really tempted to create some redfor memez right now. :D

Dude, you said radar isn't going to pickup a slow target, but now you're saying it isn't going to pickup a target in the notch. This is a completely different statement. Not to mention you talk about notching in a Ka-50 which doesn't have any idea it's being tracked.

 

Reaper does not notch you people. You really have no idea what he does. He simply has an uncanny ability to spot things, and most of the time he's facing targets ready to nail them with Vihkr's should they decide to engage him.

 

I can only echo Skippers statement below.

 

Don't worry, the people don't get you either.

[M460]

I did some testing on the F-15 againt helos. God radar had no issues spotting mi8 at 30 mles. No luck with the IRST at that range head-on.

 

Would like to know.. why REDFOR is still bound to 4 helos(2 attack 2 transport) at FARPs which make up to 24 lives, while BLUEFOR Get 64 lives (6 transport 2 attack)at every FARP. Are we supposed to bring reinforcements from Moscow to defend farps?

[microvax]

Dude, you said radar isn't going to pickup a slow target, but now you're saying it isn't going to pickup a target in the notch. This is a completely different statement. Not to mention you talk about notching in a Ka-50 which doesn't have any idea it's being tracked.

 

Reaper does not notch you people. You really have no idea what he does. He simply has an uncanny ability to spot things, and most of the time he's facing targets ready to nail them with Vihkr's should they decide to engage him.

 

I can only echo Skippers statement below.

 

 

The only thing the radar cares about is the doppler shift. And the doppler shift is never going to be bigger then the threshhold if your GS is below the speed which would induce a doppler shift, which surpasses the threshhold for doppler filtering.

 

So the statements are equal. Since the doppler filtering in DCS eats everything below 80kph pretty much. Well if you fly slower then 80kph, good luck, no radar contact in look down.

[still unlimited in look up though. I try to use that but usually flying lower then helicopter through valleys and stuff is kinda bad/unsafe ;D.]

 

Do I really have to make a video to illustrate that ?

It seems I have to.

Standby for getting rekt by numbers and physixxxx.

 

Or me singing a nice song for ED that they fixed their radar model and Helos are detected at any speed and me having writen a lot of outdated rubbish. One of them both. ;DD

[microvax]

I did some testing on the F-15 againt helos. God radar had no issues spotting mi8 at 30 mles. No luck with the IRST at that range head-on.

 

Would like to know.. why REDFOR is still bound to 4 helos(2 attack 2 transport) at FARPs which make up to 24 lives, while BLUEFOR Get 64 lives (6 transport 2 attack)at every FARP. Are we supposed to bring reinforcements from Moscow to defend farps?

 

What speed was that mi8 moving at ?

If it was above 80, yee ofc. If anything has a greater velocity then the one needed for the doppler shift relative to the scanning plane to be bigger then the filter threshhold, yes, glorious full detection range pretty much.

 

As said I have detected mi8 at full steam from 30nm in glorious lookdown from 45 000ft.

 

Yep, REDFOR definitely should get more ! :)

[Frostie]

yep 100% sure. Tested it multiple times with different bomb craters. All the planes somehow react to the craters F15 and su27 do not. I bug reported it more then a month ago to ED.

 

For example someone called in a b1b and it carpet bombed maykop after we captured it two huge craters on the runway. F15 which was with me in the air during the bombing, lands, goes over craters, 0 problem.

 

Micro tries to land at the edge of the crater because he knows that mirage gear will break, gear still broke. x).

 

Just tested this and it seems you can add the A-10A to the list as well, something changed with the FM updates because the MiG29, Su33, Su25T all suffer catastrophe going over craters as did the Flanker and F-15 with the old SFM. Seems every aircraft bar the Su27, F-15 and A-10A succumb to craters.

 

As an extra I tested some close bomb explosions on runway start aircraft the Mirage and MiG29 came out top still able to take off, the MiG-21 came a close second (pilot died shortly after), while every other aircraft became a wreck with either pilot and engine death, F-15, Su27, F86... or just structural failure, inoperable, A-10C, Su25T.

[microvax]

Video encoding, upload thereafter hope it should be up within the next hour.

 

And unless I am in a different universe my statements pretty much hold up.

[microvax]

Just tested this and it seems you can add the A-10A to the list as well, something changed with the FM updates because the MiG29, Su33, Su25T all suffer catastrophe going over craters as did the Flanker and F-15 with the old SFM. Seems every aircraft bar the Su27, F-15 and A-10A succumb to craters.

 

As an extra I tested some close bomb explosions on runway start aircraft the Mirage and MiG29 came out top still able to take off, the MiG-21 came a close second (pilot died shortly after), while every other aircraft became a wreck with either pilot and engine death, F-15, Su27, F86... or just structural failure, inoperable, A-10C, Su25T.

 

Yep can confirm a10a is also broken in that regard. Yep FC3 planes pretty much have instant gear failure. Meanwhile other planes react different depending on speed and crater parameters.

[microvax]

Unless something has changed if it's in the air, it will be detected on radar. Speed of the helicopter doesn't matter.

 

Nice "testing" Micro, under those circumstances even fighters will disappear.

 

Dude, you said radar isn't going to pickup a slow target, but now you're saying it isn't going to pickup a target in the notch. This is a completely different statement. Not to mention you talk about notching in a Ka-50 which doesn't have any idea it's being tracked.

 

Reaper does not notch you people. You really have no idea what he does. He simply has an uncanny ability to spot things, and most of the time he's facing targets ready to nail them with Vihkr's should they decide to engage him.

 

I can only echo Skippers statement below.

 

 

So here, for the memez.

 

A DCS propaganda radar Release

 

 

1440p should be up soon, then you can read the labels as well.

Magic picked up the ka50 pretty much ar 3.2nm.

 

 

m2k uses DCS standard Radar model, su27 and F15 might have longer detection range against the 80kph one but it will work the same way conceptually.

Unless fancy magic happend.

 

But I guess I did prove what I wanted to prove. :) Hope it halps.

Edited November 12, 2016 by microvax

[Joseker]

I just want change my team, from red to blue.

 

My nickname: Joseker

[mia389]

Micro, now adda su27 and do same. My test was similar but I did it in the mt valleys

[M460]

What speed was that mi8 moving at ?

If it was above 80, yee ofc. If anything has a greater velocity then the one needed for the doppler shift relative to the scanning plane to be bigger then the filter threshhold, yes, glorious full detection range pretty much.

 

As said I have detected mi8 at full steam from 30nm in glorious lookdown from 45 000ft.

 

Yep, REDFOR definitely should get more ! :)

 

At my Usual cruise speed between 250 and 270kph at 50mts. Try the same test with Gazelle and UH-1h which would be the correct type of chopper EOS systems will look for on BF. Keep in mind - I hardly ever use full collective and would discourage using it on the MI-8 that barely needs 45% of its power.

 

Any aircraft or chopper at max regime will create a large IR signature the EOS will pick up no exceptions here. even at lets say 60km an F-15 AFT will show on HUD which is well beyond the scan range on this system..

[Frostie]

1440p should be up soon, then you can read the labels as well.

Magic picked up the ka50 pretty much ar 3.2nm.

 

 

m2k uses DCS standard Radar model, su27 and F15 might have longer detection range against the 80kph one but it will work the same way conceptually.

Unless fancy magic happend.

 

But I guess I did prove what I wanted to prove. :) Hope it halps.

 

You're saying pretty much what is already well known, like I said earlier the Doppler notch starts at 140kph anything that has a closure speed to the ground relative to the search radar below 140 will drastically reduce radar acquisition range. Anything above 150kph will be seen at max range, 80km for a Flanker radar.

 

The Flanker radar sees a chopper at 140kph for about 6-8km and for about 3km at 70kph.

The Flanker EOS sees both head on for about 5-6km and more like 10km in a chase.

 

But I don't think you understand the point, you don't go seeking out choppers with EOS unless you know where they are within a certain area. The radar does this work for you as choppers ain't going to be flying around at 80kph all day, this then gives the pilot or even better the GCI a picture, he can then box off a search area that can then allow the pilot to acquire the chopper with EOS, IR seeker, radar or visual. But as a primary chopper finding tool the radar is obviously King.

[microvax]

At my Usual cruise speed between 250 and 270kph at 50mts. Try the same test with Gazelle and UH-1h which would be the correct type of chopper EOS systems will look for on BF. Keep in mind - I hardly ever use full collective and would discourage using it on the MI-8 that barely needs 45% of its power.

 

Any aircraft or chopper at max regime will create a large IR signature the EOS will pick up no exceptions here. even at lets say 60km an F-15 AFT will show on HUD which is well beyond the scan range on this system..

 

Did check with le flanker radar and IRST against uh1 and sa342. Flanker radar performed pretty much exactly as the Mirage Radar.

 

IRST was a little bit better then magic2 seeker which honestly surprised me, would have thought a stationary system would have been better then one you throw away each time you fire a missile.

[microvax]

Unless something has changed if it's in the air, it will be detected on radar. Speed of the helicopter doesn't matter.

 

You're saying pretty much what is already well known, like I said earlier the Doppler notch starts at 140kph anything that has a closure speed to the ground relative to the search radar below 140 will drastically reduce radar acquisition range. Anything above 150kph will be seen at max range, 80km for a Flanker radar.

 

The Flanker radar sees a chopper at 140kph for about 6-8km and for about 3km at 70kph.

The Flanker EOS sees both head on for about 5-6km and more like 10km in a chase.

 

But I don't think you understand the point, you don't go seeking out choppers with EOS unless you know where they are within a certain area. The radar does this work for you as choppers ain't going to be flying around at 80kph all day, this then gives the pilot or even better the GCI a picture, he can then box off a search area that can then allow the pilot to acquire the chopper with EOS, IR seeker, radar or visual. But as a primary chopper finding tool the radar is obviously King.

 

Well I did it mostly for Bodyorgan since he pretty obviously didnt know it. I saw your post earlier but bodyorgan didnt believe that either it seems :D.

 

I get what you are saying, and I get that makes sense for most redfor airfields.

I never said or meant to say at least, that its impossible for bluefor planes to spot helos.

I just was very much confused and motivated to get that "speed doesnt matter" out of the way.

 

Problem on bluefor often is, that GCI spots helos very late since Airfields like Sochi, Gudata, tblisi have so much terrain so close that a helo can pretty much hide just by terrain very easily until he gets into firing position. So our GCI often gets eyes on helos never or pretty late, when they are already not traveling anymore so its kinda troublesome to find them on radar.

In that situation I would expect the IRST to be a better option then then seeker and Radar.

Thats all I meant. Nothing else ! :)

 

But as said, I do not want to complain at all. I just wanted to illustrate that the statement that the velocity didnt matter, was wrong. :)