The F-15C (BVR) and the AMRAAM AIM-120C are not so bad in Lock-On

[Dutch60]

Let me start by telling you virtual jet-fighter pilots out there that I do not

consider myself to be an excellent or even a good virtual pilot although I

have been flying in the virtual sky’s in IL-2 and Lock-On for years switching

between them every few months, at best I could call myself an average

virtual pilot, I have tried some on-line flying but most of the time I will get

my ass shot down, LOL, I will keep trying though off-line and on-line.

 

Now back to the subject that the F-15C and the AMRAAM AIM-120C are not

so bad in the Lock-On game, in fact I have been practicing flying the F-15C

for only a few weeks and with only a minimal amount flying hours every

evening, now before this switch to the F-15C I only flew the ground attack

planes in Lock-On like the A-10A, the Su-25 and the Su-25T so I only had

my IL-2 air-to-air combat experience before I got in to the F-15C in Lock-On.

 

Well let me tell you that in one-on-one BVR air combat fights and with the AI

enemy pilot level at it’s maximum of excellent mode and only after practicing

for a few weeks the poor AI pilots in the Russian planes doe not stand a

change any more and this was quiet a bit different before I started practicing

hard to get a kill with the F-15C in BVR mode.

 

So if you still have trouble using the AMRAAM AIM-120C there are just a

couple things you should get right, firmly believe in your self to be a good

pilot and train your self, sit tight, get a lock as soon as possible, hold thigh,

fire as quickly as possible, get of a few extra AMRAAM missiles on the target

you get an abounded number of 8 of these very efficient AMRAAM missiles

from uncle Sam, so use the while you have the change, do not use the ECM

and also rather try to evade missiles by some fancy flying than relying on

decoys, I do not use flares and chaff.

 

Here are a just a few tracks from my training sessions, for a good playback

use the show button in the main menu rather then the load (track) and

play-track buttons. If you use the show you will see how I have flown the

mission, using the load and play you can manipulate the views but than

things sometime end up different then the original recordings so if you want

to have an other view look just let the track playback with out any view

switching until the F-15C radar gets it’s first lock then you can start

switching views.

 

Good luck practicing!

See you in the virtual skies.

 

http://home.planet.nl/~elzer033/downloads/F15C_AMRAAM_Tracks.zip

[GGTharos]

Against the AI, huh? :)

 

Okay. Now go play online and tell me the 120's don't suck ;)

[Arbitrator]

not trying to be sarcastic, but the AI's suck at evading missiles, and their manuveries are very predictable, they fire missile at Rmax, and always one at a time, unlike human, and the way they use decoy is very ineffective, although they do have God's SA, but BVR doesn't matter that much.

usually practice against 4 AI's at the same time if you play offline, because 1 v 1 using F-15C, or any A2A flyable fighters against any of the other AI's in LOFC, that AI is going to hell without question, that should be 100%.

try to play online if you can, you will find out after that play against AI is very boring.

the 120's suck bc it's very easy to lose track when it gets close at low altitude, especially if the closure rate is very fast, plus people are very good at evading missiles, usually you either are very lucky or againsting some newbees if you have just used less than 3 120's to have a kill, especially going against the mig drivers.

[Kenan]

Against the AI, huh? :)

 

Okay. Now go play online and tell me the 120's don't suck ;)

 

Well, they're not that good, but they're also not that bad.

Look at Pilotasso's and Ice's scores on the 504th, and some other guys who made fortune of kills with those.

 

It's how you use it. If you fire it from a range greater then 30km, the pk will be low. Especially if the target is aware of being fired at.

 

You can't expect to make a 1 launch 1 kill with that. Unless the target is in furball, deep stall, engaged by multiple friendlies OR, once again, completely unaware it's been launched at.

[GGTharos]

Kenan, I've seen AMRAAMs simply NOT TRACK the target coming off the rail at 3-5nm, nevermind 30km!

[Pilotasso]

Well, they're not that good, but they're also not that bad.

Look at Pilotasso's and Ice's scores on the 504th, and some other guys who made fortune of kills with those.

 

You have no idea what it took for those kills realy. Usualy under 10 miles and after had evaded half of the targets missiles. I may not had much of Su and mig usage on the 504 (comparitively to the F-15 but I still have more Su kills than most peaople) but that was because mainly for my search of hard opposition wich I could obtain from several 504's coordinated between themselves.

 

On the 169 server last april I had put the Su-33 to good use and by comparison with the F-15 I could get kills from MUCH MUCH further away. I had few 120's shot on my way and almost all times it didnt take much to evade them because they were running out of energy. I also thought That compared to the F-15 In LOMAC one can press the enemy with the 33 quite heavily with consecutive missiles as I aproach. I got a few pure HOJ kills. I was hoping to get burn through first before impact but I was WOW'ed as those blew up far away and their strobes gone...I have never made it with the F-15.

[GGTharos]

Let this be a lesson to people: Turn off your jammers ;)

[Dutch60]

I thought that a lot of people out here mostly fly off-line or at least it is 50/50 for on-line/off-line and it the AI really this bad?

[Kenan]

Kenan, I've seen AMRAAMs simply NOT TRACK the target coming off the rail at 3-5nm, nevermind 30km!

 

It's the same with R77. It just SUCKS in visual range. I remmember I was chasing a lone SU25T pilot, was on his six, fired 2 R77 at him, he just dropped tons of chaffs and flares and my missiles just went crazy.

 

Or, was it some ueber Frog pilot???:helpsmilie:

[GGTharos]

I'll repeat: Try flying on-line.

 

You'll run into situations the AI will never put you though.

 

PLayers being sneaky, taking advantage of every single problem your radar might have, defeating your missiles while closing head-on with you ...

 

You'll need to get something to color your hair so it's your 'natural color' again.

[MBot]

I thought that a lot of people out here mostly fly off-line or at least it is 50/50 for on-line/off-line and it the AI really this bad?

 

 

 

The ratio of offline/online is probably more like 95/5.

[GGTharos]

It's the same with R77. It just SUCKS in visual range. I remmember I was chasing a lone SU25T pilot, was on his six, fired 2 R77 at him, he just dropped tons of chaffs and flares and my missiles just went crazy.

 

Or, was it some ueber Frog pilot???:helpsmilie:

 

Nope, just the missiles being dumb. Actually, the tail-chase is not so good for radar missiles even RL, since the chaff is between the plane and the missile.

 

Anyway, I never shoot 25T's tail-on any longer. The jammer will decoy heaters, and chaff will suck the radar guided missiles in.

 

I prefer to shoot directly from the top or the beam, usually they won't even see you coming, and they'll do nothing to evade. Boom.

[Floyd]

I thought that a lot of people out here mostly fly off-line or at least it is 50/50 for on-line/off-line and it the AI really this bad?

 

Say it in a positive way: Humans fly way better :thumbup:

 

Programming a decent AI is a difficult undertaking (read: time and money)

and humans pester you with more tricky stuff you can think about.

And don't forget: humans learn and get better ... you fly like you train.

[Frostie]

The ratio of offline/online is probably more like 95/5.

Not sure how to tell this, a poll would be only answer IMO as everyone I know who flies Lockon hardly ever play it offline.

[GGTharos]

A poll would tell you nothing.

 

There are maybe 200-300 people playing on HL regularely (though not all at once)

 

LOMAC sold thousands, not hundreds of copies. You figure it out ;)

[warthogmadman987]

I would certainly play on line if i knew what was happening. After reading the breifing and starting i just get blown to bits, and i dont even know what happened. I have played single player for a while, so i dont expect to be good online, just understand what happened when i died. I dont know, maybe i need to start from the basics, i am sure i would fly online if i could, i just dont have enough time... i seem to have other excuses, but it all comes down to me not knowing and just plain sucking...

[GGTharos]

Probably because on some servers you might end up spawning on a base already overrun by enemy tanks or - the creator being sneaky and placing IRH SAMs on reverese slopes etc ...

 

STOP FLYING LOW. ;) Especially if you can help it. And, look around.

[Frostie]

A poll would tell you nothing.

 

There are maybe 200-300 people playing on HL regularely (though not all at once)

 

LOMAC sold thousands, not hundreds of copies. You figure it out ;)

Totally agree with you but how many of them copies are gathering dust ,quite a lot by some misguided peeps opinion of the sim.

[Dutch60]

I will keep practicing so that one day I will be good enough for on-line

 

Although I sometime really enjoy flying on-line using the IL-2 flight simulator

there are some problems with it this on-line thing and besides the usual excuses

like not having the time to learn to fly and fight better that I do now or being

plainly and simply not good enough, there is the biggest problem I have with

flying on-line and this is that it will most of the time end up like being one big

first person shooter fraq circus.

 

The only thing that sounds interesting is on-line COOP missions, but for this I

really do not consider myself to be good enough and I would really hate to let

my squadron buddy’s down.

 

So sorry for now I will fly Lock-On manly off-line just like many of my fellow

want to be fighter pilots I will keep practicing so that one day I will be good

enough for on-line.

[GGTharos]

You'll never be good enough for on-line without flying on-line.

 

NEVER.

 

And please, if you do not consider yourself good enough then don't make broad statements about the performance of various weapons. :)

[snomhf]

You'll never be good enough for on-line without flying on-line.

 

NEVER.

 

And please, if you do not consider yourself good enough then don't make broad statements about the performance of various weapons. :)

Just what are you trying to say there GGT? :D Yikes!! :)

[GGTharos]

I'm saying that no amount of fighting with the AI can prepare you to face off an on-line opponent. :)

[snomhf]

I'm saying that no amount of fighting with the AI can prepare you to face off an on-line opponent. :)

 

I know. I was just playing with you! :beer:

[Dutch60]

Sorry GGTharos,

 

No offence.

 

I did not mean to make any broad statement about any plane, weapon or

missile performance, it is just that after all the complains about the AMRAAM

in Lock-On that I as just an average pilot after a few hours F-15C BVR flying

time can kill any AI Expert level Russian pilot in any Russian plane, I just wonder

what this say’s about the AI.

 

So you say that an off-line pilot is no good and can not make any statement

on these forums anymore, well to me this just simply sounded a little unfriendly,

or did you mean let the on-line fraq and sometimes cheating circus commence.

 

I just wanted to show my tracks and hoped that some beginner Lock-On pilot

could learn something from them.

 

http://home.planet.nl/~elzer033/downloads/F15C_AMRAAM_Tracks.zip

[GGTharos]

The AI always tries the same thing when trying to avoid a missile. An online pilot will try many more and much more successful things.

 

That's what I'm telling you. AI never has been and never will be very smart, in -any- game. The complaints are entirely legitimate, unless, I suppose, you play against a very unimaginative and predictable opponent.

 

And that why an offline pilot's experience is lacking - so I tell you: Go on-line.

 

The whole 'frag-fest' and 'air-quake' is just an excuse to avoid learning the hard way ;)

 

You also learn a whole lot quicker if you jump on TS and talk with people while flying.