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[REPORTED]What happened to the brakes?


Flying-Kane
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Hi guys,

 

did you notice that the brakes are stronger in 1.5?

 

I had some landings where i flipped over my 109, never happened before in 1.2.xx.

 

I didn't read anything about it in the changelog...

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I noticed the same.

 

It seems that when you are in low speed already, you really need to be careful when you push the brakes, otherwise they will almost lock and your nose will dive into the ground.

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+1, brakes are too poweful now. I'm sure they will be corrected in later updates.

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confirm. Brakes seem to be very strong now.

 

Hmmmm, something tells me Yo-Yo has hidden the elevator trim tab somewhere in the wheel brake system, so now it is active when you apply brakes, and causes that pitching down moment...

 

:pilotfly:

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Hmmmm, something tells me Yo-Yo has hidden the elevator trim tab somewhere in the wheel brake system, so now it is active when you apply brakes, and causes that pitching down moment...

 

:pilotfly:

:lol::lol::lol: :thumbup:

 

 

IIRC, wasn't people asking for a more powerful brakes time ago? They said brakes didn't hold enough the aircraft on ground or something like that. I noticed also the brakes, but I liked the new feeling. It would be another question the nose digging as 109 is supposed to have a low enough CG to hold hard breaking without flipping over. I guess you are using brakes as a key guys?

 

S!

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IIRC, wasn't people asking for a more powerful brakes time ago? They said brakes didn't hold enough the aircraft on ground or something like that. I noticed also the brakes, but I liked the new feeling. It would be another question the nose digging as 109 is supposed to have a low enough CG to hold hard breaking without flipping over. I guess you are using brakes as a key guys?

 

S!

 

Not here, using pedal brakes.

Need to be very careful now, not to dip the nose on landing or from low speed.

Have not tried full throttle at standstill with brakes yet.

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Gigabyte Aorus Master, i7 9700K@std, GTX 1080TI OC, 32 GB 3000 MHz RAM, NVMe M.2 SSD, Oculus Quest VR (2x1600x1440)

Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

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Hmmmm, something tells me Yo-Yo has hidden the elevator trim tab somewhere in the wheel brake system, so now it is active when you apply brakes, and causes that pitching down moment...

 

:pilotfly:

 

:thumbup: :lol:

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Gigabyte Aorus Master, i7 9700K@std, GTX 1080TI OC, 32 GB 3000 MHz RAM, NVMe M.2 SSD, Oculus Quest VR (2x1600x1440)

Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

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Anyway, all reports I've read, including Eric's words, say the K4, just like the "G" variants were tail heavy enough to allow the pilot to apply full brakes during landing rollout without having to fear a prop strike, and some other sources even mention that during taxiing, on most closed turns, a bit of forward stick and power would make the tail "feel" lighter...


Edited by jcomm

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+1, brakes are too poweful now. I'm sure they will be corrected in later updates.

 

For me it looks like much more that the plane has no tail weight anymore.

Even with low speed at the ground (around 50 kph) I flip the nose to the ground. doens't seem very real and for this it's not very important how powerfull the brakes are.

Try it. hold the brakes, throttle up and push the brakes after you gain some speed (around 10 kph).

So I think this are not the brakes alone! ;)

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Hmmmm, something tells me Yo-Yo has hidden the elevator trim tab somewhere in the wheel brake system, so now it is active when you apply brakes, and causes that pitching down moment...

 

:pilotfly:

 

:clown_2:

 

:P

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If our 109 is having a tendency to nose-over upon brake application, under conditions in which the real 109 could not, I would suspect tail mass et al. long before I started to suspect brake strength. Real aircraft brakes are very strong--powerful enough to hold aircraft at very high power settings, and usually powerful enough to cause deadly accidents if applied improperly at high speed. It'd be very hard to model them to be more powerful than they really are. Durability is another question, and it's true that brake durability isn't modelled here, but that issue is irrelevant to any tendency to nose over.


Edited by Echo38
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Well looking at historical accounts the brakes were never really "used" all that often IRl. The aircraft was landed ( 109 and 190) in the three point position and the aircraft was left to stop itself only slight rudder inputs to keep it tracking straight on the RWY. To slow it down on approach, it was common to crab or side slip the plane to reduce speed just before straightening out for landing. Read any historical accounts or even the documentary that ED did with a legendary FW-190/ 109 pilot. I fully support the changes made as it is indeed more accurate to factual information researched and provided to ED.

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If our 109 is having a tendency to nose-over upon brake application, under conditions in which the real 109 could not, I would suspect tail mass et al. long before I started to suspect brake strength. Real aircraft brakes are very strong--powerful enough to hold aircraft at very high power settings, and usually powerful enough to cause deadly accidents if applied improperly at high speed. It'd be very hard to model them to be more powerful than they really are. Durability is another question, and it's true that brake durability isn't modelled here, but that issue is irrelevant to any tendency to nose over.

 

Anyway, all reports I've read, including Eric's words, say the K4, just like the "G" variants were tail heavy enough to allow the pilot to apply full brakes during landing rollout without having to fear a prop strike, and some other sources even mention that during taxiing, on most closed turns, a bit of forward stick and power would make the tail "feel" lighter...

 

Well looking at historical accounts the brakes were never really "used" all that often IRl. The aircraft was landed ( 109 and 190) in the three point position and the aircraft was left to stop itself only slight rudder inputs to keep it tracking straight on the RWY. To slow it down on approach, it was common to crab or side slip the plane to reduce speed just before straightening out for landing. Read any historical accounts or even the documentary that ED did with a legendary FW-190/ 109 pilot. I fully support the changes made as it is indeed more accurate to factual information researched and provided to ED.

I have read comments of Spanish pilots who had flown the Bf-109 and HA-1112 state that drum brakes of Me-109´s was not powerful compared with other aircraft.

This may be a subjective opinion of the pilots due to the aircraft no nose-over easily when breaking unlike other airplanes.

But like Jcomm, say previously, Erich Brunotte stated that Bf-109 brakes work perfectly if the airplane have a good maintenance, and i´m sure it was true. ;)


Edited by III/JG52_Otto_+
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Hi guys,

 

did you notice that the brakes are stronger in 1.5?

 

I had some landings where i flipped over my 109, never happened before in 1.2.xx.

 

I didn't read anything about it in the changelog...

 

Can you tell me, are you using axis for your brakes (such as toe brakes on rudder pedals), or not?

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Can you tell me, are you using axis for your brakes (such as toe brakes on rudder pedals), or not?

 

I can't answer for Flying Kane, but I use brakes on axis, toe brakes on my pedals.

 

And for me it has become very easy to nose over compared to 1.2.16.

In 1.2.16 I could brake as much as I wanted.

 

In 1.5 I need to be very careful, especially when slowing down, then it will dip the nose very easily.

System specs:

 

Gigabyte Aorus Master, i7 9700K@std, GTX 1080TI OC, 32 GB 3000 MHz RAM, NVMe M.2 SSD, Oculus Quest VR (2x1600x1440)

Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

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I can't answer for Flying Kane, but I use brakes on axis, toe brakes on my pedals.

 

And for me it has become very easy to nose over compared to 1.2.16.

In 1.2.16 I could brake as much as I wanted.

 

In 1.5 I need to be very careful, especially when slowing down, then it will dip the nose very easily.

 

Did you redo your controls, or did you try importing them from 1.2.16?

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Did you redo your controls, or did you try importing them from 1.2.16?

 

I did import them from 1.2.16.

 

Do you suggest I delete the axis and assign it again?

 

Edit: The other axis feel much the same as in 1.2.16.


Edited by Sporg

System specs:

 

Gigabyte Aorus Master, i7 9700K@std, GTX 1080TI OC, 32 GB 3000 MHz RAM, NVMe M.2 SSD, Oculus Quest VR (2x1600x1440)

Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

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If you dont mind, just redo them fresh, check your calibration, etc... probably not it, but cant hurt.

 

Ok, will do for all axis.

 

As you say, can't hurt. ;)

System specs:

 

Gigabyte Aorus Master, i7 9700K@std, GTX 1080TI OC, 32 GB 3000 MHz RAM, NVMe M.2 SSD, Oculus Quest VR (2x1600x1440)

Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

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Ok, test done.

 

It does seem like it helped a little, but difficult to say fully.

The brakes do seem less "touchy".

But maybe I'm just better at being careful. :)

 

However I was still able to nose over at landing, if pressing the brakes fully.

 

Tested full throttle while standing still: No nose over.

Let go of the brake and let it roll just a little before braking again: Nose over.

 

Would be nice if others tried the same and could confirm.

System specs:

 

Gigabyte Aorus Master, i7 9700K@std, GTX 1080TI OC, 32 GB 3000 MHz RAM, NVMe M.2 SSD, Oculus Quest VR (2x1600x1440)

Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

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Would be nice if others tried the same and could confirm.

 

I have the same issue in 1.5 - the brakes are far more sensitive and it's now very easy to nose over whereas before it was quite difficult to nose over which seemed in line with what RL pilots typically said about the 109.

 

I tested the brakes just now in 1.2.16 and it's pretty hard to nose over - you can jam on full brakes for a while without any issues. In 1.5 an application of full brakes has you nosing over extremely quickly. But I would say that ED made some good improvements to the brakes for direction control with the 109 in 1.5 - personally I find it far easier to control direction with taps of the brakes in 1.5 than before. Just it seems too easy to nose over now is all which, while easily avoidable by being very careful, doesn't seem historically correct for the 109.

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