flanker "2015" series

[Ardillita]

Just found this upgrades to what will be the "2015" flanker series:

 

There are a number of candidate upgrades which can be predicted with a high level of confidence, given known development activity in Russian industry:

1. Supersonic cruise 40,000 lbf class AL-41F engines replacing the AL-31F. A derated AL-41F was being trailed in a Russian Su-27 in 2004.

2. Thrust vectoring (TVC) engine nozzles with 2D or 3D capability. Indian Su-30MKI is equipped with a TVC nozzle.

3. Digital Flight Control System (DFCS). Trialled in the 1990s Su-37 and later supplied to India, this technology will become standard for late build Flankers. The Su-37 included redundant sidestick controls for the pilot.

4. Canard foreplanes for enhanced high alpha agility. Production hardware on Su-33 and Su-30MKI.

5. An active phased array (AESA) fire control radar replacing the N-001 series. Russian industry has supplied the hybrid array N-011M to India, built AESA prototypes, and given availability of GaAs MMIC technology globally, will have no difficulty in manufacturing an AESA over the next decade.

6. A two color band FLIR/IRST sensor replacing the OLS-30, using QWIP imaging array technology. Russian industry has been negotiating to licence EU QWIP technology, which is based on mass production GaAs MMIC technology.

7. COTS based computer hardware running COTS based software. Given the use of this technology in the current N-001VEP upgrade, we can expect its use to extend across all systems over the next decade.

8. A Helmet Mounted Display with FLIR projection capability. Such an upgrade was being discussed some years ago, and would be easily accommodated with a FLIR/IRST sensor.

9. Full glass cockpit based on digital technology. Given the current delivery of first generation glass cockpits in Su-30MK and Su-27SKM, this is a natural progression.

10. Heatseeking and anti radiation variants of the R-77 Amraamski, and extended range ramjet powered variants of the R-77. All are in advanced development and actively being marketed.

11. Advanced digital variants of the R-73/74 Archer close-in air to air missile. These have been actively marketed.

12. AWACS killer long range missiles in the 160 to 200 nautical mile range category. The R-37/AA-X-13 Arrow remains in development for the Su-35, the R-172 was recently reported as the subject of licence negotiations with India. Su-35 upgrade marketing literature depicts the use of such missiles.

13. Cruise missiles for standoff attacks. China acquired Kh-55SM/AS-15 Kent cruise missiles from the Ukraine, and is manufacturing indigenous designs.

14. Advanced jam resistant fighter to fighter and fighter to AWACS datalinks and networks. India used the Russian TKS-2 datalink to effect in the Cope India exercise against the F-15C. Further evolution of protocol software will see this technology grow to match current US capabilities.

15. Radar absorbent materials for radar observables reduction. Numerous Russian unclassified papers detail a range of technologies for surface wave suppression and edge signature reduction, with a specific aim of reducing legacy aircraft observables.

16. Aerial refuelling probes, pylon plumbing for drop tanks, and buddy refuelling stores. Production hardware available off the shelf.

[plug pray]

Sounds tasty, of course, but.......

The first possible improvement, which is the key to all of the rest, is money. And unless the army gets money, nothing will do. I think that in the next decade some units will be equiped with modern flankers and migs, and so on, but as for mass production- it is a very far perspective. Of course, we all(russians) hope that something like that will be, we hope that soon everything will go better(and it slightly kinda starts)..... But we understand that it will not be soon.

There are 2 troubles in russia. One of them is fools. And it always somehow happens that all of the fools are in government(if you ask anyone)... And even if you push a good seeming politican into the govt, he will wonderfully change. There are a lot of promises from Ivanov. But things dont go any further from promises usually.

[thesystem]

Wow, good upgrade for a great plane......:thumbup:Thanks for sharing this information!

Where did you get it! i hope the russians have enough funds!

[Ardillita]

I got it from an article, http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.106/pub_detail.asp

 

The "when", well, that is why it is called the "2015" series, from here to ten years, but money is not shown as a problem in that article. In the same site and in articles related, you can read that those upgrades are not only a wich list, they are already in development, many of them in advance phase of development, and some of them are already working in the actual su30mki, and in the "super flanker" like the vectorial thrust. Also, in another related article in the same site, it is discussed that all this upgrades are being developed because Chine will be a great buyer, so money is around there

Also, notice for example that the super cruise speed say it was already trailed in a flanker by 2004. I wonder... a flanker with anti radar components... mmm what will be of the raptor f22?

[Force_Feedback]

point 4 is no longer valid, as the newest su-27 variants lack the canards because, as Sukhoi brochures said, there is no need for the canards because of an enhanced digital flight control system. So, chances the MFI (and PAK-FA) will have canards are small.

 

Also, Vympel started the modernisation program for the Kh-29, R-73 and RVV-AE (R-77). They also started working on a series of next-gen missiles, designed for the 5th generation aircraft, the missiles should be ready for mass production in 2010-2012 and will replace the current R-73, RVV-AE and R-27.

 

 

BTW, here is the new Ukrainian made dogfighting missile, a mock-up can be seen here, the missile has a standard aerodynamic scheme, TVC, IIR, and, surprisingly, the same characteristics described as the R-73 in terms of front engagement range, from the rear it can hit targets at 20km. max. The missile is nameless atm.

 

Specs (preliminary):

Height launcher/target, m - 20...20000

Speed of launcher 650...2500 km/h

Speed of target (not more than) 2700 km/h

Load factor, g - 0...12

Height differential from launcher, 0 - 0...5000

Angles of target designator, degrees - */-60

Range of launch (max./min.)

-Rear hemisphere, km - 20/0.3

-Front hemisphere, km - 40/0.65

In angled trajectories, km - 15/0.6

Time of controlled flight, sec. - up to 25

Length (approximately), mm - 2500

Diameter, mm - 170

[britgliderpilot]

Yeah, the whole "money" thing tends to be rather important as regards all these shiny upgrades . . . . grin.

[warthogmadman987]

"9. Full glass cockpit based on digital technology. Given the current delivery of first generation glass cockpits in Su-30MK and Su-27SKM, this is a natural progression."

 

 

So does this mean one big huge HUD?

[Force_Feedback]

So does this mean one big huge HUD?

 

Interesting point, while the russian avionics are quite advanced, the HUDs seem to be lagging behind, as even the newest test versions still have the same hud frame. Why not install a paoramic hud, the thing will be light, and no bulky CRTs are needed now.

[Dudikoff]

"9. Full glass cockpit based on digital technology. Given the current delivery of first generation glass cockpits in Su-30MK and Su-27SKM, this is a natural progression."

 

So does this mean one big huge HUD?

 

I believe it actually means no analogue instruments.

[Cobra360]

Interesting point, while the russian avionics are quite advanced, the HUDs seem to be lagging behind, as even the newest test versions still have the same hud frame. Why not install a paoramic hud, the thing will be light, and no bulky CRTs are needed now.

 

Yeah, like the HUD in the F-15E, now that thing is class. Plus HUDs are not going to be on the F-22 once the JHMCS is fully deleloped, the HUDs will be removed on earlier versions and F-35 has no HUD at all.

[thesystem]

Yeah, like the HUD in the F-15E, now that thing is class. Plus HUDs are not going to be on the F-22 once the JHMCS is fully deleloped, the HUDs will be removed on earlier versions and F-35 has no HUD at all.

 

At an advertisement in the latest armada the F35 has a HUD......

 

The advertisement is from Rockwell Collins and they supply the communications and electrionics for the F35....

 

But the strange thing is that they put at there site that there will be no hud.....so i am a bit confused about it

 

VSI is also developing the next generation HMD for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). This highly advanced HMD will feature a binocular display system, providing the pilot with weapons and sensor videos, as well as integrated day/night capability with sensor fusion. The VSI HMD will serve as the "virtual Head Up Display (HUD)" for the F-35, which is the first modern tactical aircraft designed without a conventional HUD.

[britgliderpilot]

At an advertisement in the latest armada the F35 has a HUD......

 

The advertisement is from Rockwell Collins and they supply the communications and electrionics for the F35....

 

But the strange thing is that they put at there site that there will be no hud.....so i am a bit confused about it

 

Well until they've finished developing the magic HMD, they do rather need a HUD . . . . even if future tranches/blocks will do away with it ;)

 

Your best bet for the moment, anyway.

[Pilotasso]

Inotice for example that the super cruise speed say it was already trailed in a flanker by 2004. I wonder... a flanker with anti radar components... mmm what will be of the raptor f22?

 

The Raptors radome blocks all radar signals but its own. Also dont be fooled by the russian anti radar AA missiles. Few users will want to waste missile pylons for weapons wich have litle PK and because the raptors AESA pulses cannot be intercepted by passive systems on fighters...yet. Much less on missiles.

[warthogmadman987]

I believe it actually means no analogue instruments.

 

I guess i am confused. What do you mean buy analogue. Noob question, i know. I just need to define analogue. So, would this mean a full glass cockpit. Like the all gauges would be displayed holographically on a glass screen?

[Force_Feedback]

Yeah, like the HUD in the F-15E, now that thing is class. Plus HUDs are not going to be on the F-22 once the JHMCS is fully deleloped, the HUDs will be removed on earlier versions and F-35 has no HUD at all.

 

Maybe that's the reason they don't research new HUDs, they're probably working on a helmet mounted variant.

 

That Ukarinian missile looks a bit like IRIS-T, let's hope it'll get the 90* off bore capability, as 60 doesn't cut it anymore these days. The 60 degree limit is due to the IRST gimball limits, so they'll need to upgrade the IRST systems first in order to get 90* off-bore capability.

[tflash]

The Raptors radome blocks all radar signals but its own. Also dont be fooled by the russian anti radar AA missiles. Few users will want to waste missile pylons for weapons wich have litle PK and because the raptors AESA pulses cannot be intercepted by passive systems on fighters...yet. Much less on missiles.

 

The air-to-air anti-radiation missiles have nothing to do with the Raptor. They are part of efforts to counter Awacs systems. The idea is: send some long-range anti-radar missiles Awacs-bound and they will be busy for a while.

[britgliderpilot]

I guess i am confused. What do you mean buy analogue. Noob question, i know. I just need to define analogue. So, would this mean a full glass cockpit. Like the all gauges would be displayed holographically on a glass screen?

 

 

Glass cockpit usually means a digital display - the dial is replaced by an LCD screen or MFD. That's all.

 

Having three big screens in your cockpit instead of thirty dials just looks neater - plus you can choose which to display and which not to, etcetera etcetera.

[Weta43]

'The Raptors radome blocks all radar signals but its own.'

 

I think you're getting all mystical on us here Pilotasso -

 

given that (my understanding) the F-22 radar scans across a range of frequencies to start with, some of which are bound to overlap at least in frequency if not waveform with those of other fighters.

& given that it doesn't know when it's own radar signal will arrive back (range)

or the exact frequency of the return (doppler shift)

 

Unless it somehow magically filters on waveform - which it doesn't know till the signal gets through the radome to the antenna.

[britgliderpilot]

'The Raptors radome blocks all radar signals but its own.'

 

I think you're getting all mystical on us here Pilotasso -

 

given that (my understanding) the F-22 radar scans across a range of frequencies to start with, some of which are bound to overlap at least in frequency if not waveform with those of other fighters.

& given that it doesn't know when it's own radar signal will arrive back (range)

or the exact frequency of the return (doppler shift)

 

Unless it somehow magically filters on waveform - which it doesn't know till the signal gets through the radome to the antenna.

 

It's an interesting question, for sure.

[Weta43]

It is - & if you could think of an answer maybe you'd have a sensor that only picked up Raptor Radar...

[D-Scythe]

It is - & if you could think of an answer maybe you'd have a sensor that only picked up Raptor Radar...

 

Doubtful. If we can concieve of such a weakness in the F-22, there's no doubt the USAF and Lockheed Martin knew about this problem for decades. They probably already figured something out, probably top secret - never underestimate what money can do, especially in a multi-billion dollar program as the F-22. I'm willing to bet that more money went into the APG-77 and its radome alone than most other military programs in the world.

 

Lockheed Martin's Affordable Stealth:

"An aircraft’s radar is usually a very significant

contributor to an aircraft’s signature. The F-22

design significantly reduces the radar’s signature using

a combination of a bandpass resonant radome and

low signature radar. The F-22 radome is one of the

most complex structural components on the F-22."

 

Full article: http://www.f22fighter.com/AffordableStealth.pdf

[Force_Feedback]

Ok, but what happens when Chinese agants nick the LFI algorythms and incorporate them in the RWR system, then the F-22 radar is not stealthy anymore, and billions would te be have spent to corrent that.

[GGTharos]

RWR's can be programmed to detect LPI radars - this is admitted in an unclassified Air Force Document. As for the algorythm - who cares. A good random number generator for the frequency hopping and scan pattern choice would beat your algorythm thievery any time. ;)

 

The funny thing is, you don't need to steal anything. Still, the Raptor's radar isn't something you want looking at you. It can likely confuse your RWR nicely.

[Cobra360]

Thing is, if in wartime and you find an APG-77 pop up on your RWR, chances are that Raptor is after datalinking your position to other Raptors operating radar silent. Scarry thought. They then move into good firing positions while you try to jam and break lock. They then launch their missiles, possibly guided by the first Raptor's radar. All of a sudden AMRAAMs just pop up and..... bam.

[GGTharos]

Thing is, if in wartime and you find an APG-77 pop up on your RWR, chances are that Raptor is after datalinking your position to other Raptors operating radar silent. Scarry thought. They then move into good firing positions while you try to jam and break lock. They then launch their missiles, possibly guided by the first Raptor's radar. All of a sudden AMRAAMs just pop up and..... bam.

 

I don't think they are ever guided by another aircraft's radar ...

 

To make it more clear, the receiver for the datalink is in the 120's tail. That means that only the launching aircraft is typically capable of guiding it ... this is splitting hairs but, basically, the launching aircraft will receive the DL from the scanning aircraft, and then it will guide its missile onto the datalinked target.

 

The importance in this is as such: The scanning aircraft is not guiding missiles, and is clear to disengange. The launching aircraft must guide until TTA, wether via datalink or own radar - the catch here is that the datalink signal is, IIRC, carried on the radar sidelobes, so the radar must operate at very low power, and thus your angle to the missile is limited by this as well.