Mirage 2000 Discussion (On Topic Only)

[Hook47]

Consider making your voice on that post Ramsey, perhaps things will change one day: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2595625#post2595625

 

Done!

 

 

Now as for this M2000C.... I'm free on the 15th Razbam, if you want to release it then :smilewink:

[impact480]

Thank you very much, it will come handy for sure!

[Zeus67]

This is what happens when you get fixed on your target and forget that he has a wingman.

 

 

[Teeter]

This is what happens when you get fixed on your target and forget that he has a wingman.

 

 

 

Goddamn...is the radar operable in this condition?

[Corrigan]

I have to say that I really don't think it should be. Pics look fantastic, as always.

[Zeus67]

Goddamn...is the radar operable in this condition?

 

No. I lost the radar and drag is increased as well.

[Teeter]

I have to say that I really don't think it should be. Pics look fantastic, as always.

 

No. I lost the radar and drag is increased as well.

 

Right, obviously it shouldn't be. I was wondering if it is modeled in such a way.

 

Holy moly Zeus...I'm having a hard time focusing on finals this week already!

[Kayos]

Awesome!

[whaaw]

One question about Aerial refueling.

Is the russian tanker the only one to do the refueling, or do we get a pipe like this at release:

[jojo]

IL-78 for tanker variant :thumbup:

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Ilyushin_Il-78MKI_(RK-3452).jpg

Edited December 14, 2015 by jojo

[Ganesh]

IL-78 for tanker variant

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Ilyushin_Il-78MKI_(RK-3452).jpg

 

Yeah! That would be fantastic! Looks awesome!

 

 

Right now, the Russian one (IL-76?) and the S-3B Tanker

Of course, this is also great to hear :thumbup:

Edited December 14, 2015 by Ganesh

[Hook47]

So we know now from Zeus it won't be tomorrow.... Maybe Wednesday? Lol

Edited December 15, 2015 by Hook47

[Zeus67]

Changing the topic, allow me to present your best friend or your worst enemy: The G-Limiter:

 

 

Sorry for the dark image, I promise a better one will be available on the manual.

 

What is the G-Limiter? Well, as its name implies, it limits the amount of gravitational forces that the aircraft can handle. It has two settings: A/A (default) and STORES. It is an essential part of the FBW system.

 

The A/A setting is self explanatory and is used for an air-to-air combat configuration. In this case the g forces limit is 9Gs. If you try to push the aircraft beyond that limit, the FBW will override you.

 

The STORES setting is for when you have heavy loads under the wings and fuselage, this could be bombs but also includes the large underwing fuel tanks. In this setting the g forces limit is 6Gs.

 

Why is it your best friend? Because it will keep the aircraft under its safe flight parameters, even during combat.

 

Why is it your worst enemy? Because a misconfiguration can be deadly. Flying with air to ground ordnance under the wings and with the G-Limiter in A/A can put you in a situation in which you will lose the wings due to overstress. The switch is there for a reason so do not forget setting it to its correct position.

[Kayos]

Give it to us!!! I can't wait much longer lol

[Hook47]

Changing the topic, allow me to present your best friend or your worst enemy: The G-Limiter:

 

 

Sorry for the dark image, I promise a better one will be available on the manual.

 

What is the G-Limiter? Well, as its name implies, it limits the amount of gravitational forces that the aircraft can handle. It has two settings: A/A (default) and STORES. It is an essential part of the FBW system.

 

The A/A setting is self explanatory and is used for an air-to-air combat configuration. In this case the g forces limit is 9Gs. If you try to push the aircraft beyond that limit, the FBW will override you.

 

The STORES setting is for when you have heavy loads under the wings and fuselage, this could be bombs but also includes the large underwing fuel tanks. In this setting the g forces limit is 6Gs.

 

Why is it your best friend? Because it will keep the aircraft under its safe flight parameters, even during combat.

 

Why is it your worst enemy? Because a misconfiguration can be deadly. Flying with air to ground ordnance under the wings and with the G-Limiter in A/A can put you in a situation in which you will lose the wings due to overstress. The switch is there for a reason so do not forget setting it to its correct position.

 

Awesome stuff Zeus! Really excited to hear you guys are pushing the manual with the aircraft. Other devs could learn from you guys!!! :thumbup:

 

Oh, is there an OFF setting for that limiter? For those feeling dangerous!!! Lol :)

[Azrayen]

Excellent images for the noseless M2000, thanks :) :)

 

= = = = =

 

Regarding the A/A-CHARGES (STORES) switch, I'll nitpick a bit (sorry): this switch does a bit more than simply setting the G limiter, in fact it's a FBW mode switch, and it also acts on the AoA limiter and roll speed limiter, as follows:

[TABLE] |A/A mode|CHARGES (STORES) mode

G limit | 8.5g (+/-0.5) on elastic stop | 5.5g (+/-0.5) on elastic stop

AoA limit | 29° (or 27° at very low speed ~100kt) | no "hard" limit, but aural warning if AoA > 20° (the pilot must respect this value by himself)

Roll speed limit | 270°/s | 150°/s and (more) reduced speed if current G is high[/TABLE]

 

The real M2000 has a first "elastic stop" at 80% of the stick course when you pull on the stick (you need to pull 10Kg to go there). Then if you REALLY pull it to max ("mechanical/hard stop") you can get a bit more performance (you have to pull 40kg to go to the mechanical stop and make the stick travel the last 20% of its backward course).

 

++

Az'

Edited December 21, 2015 by Azrayen

[Corrigan]

Roll speed limit 290°/s

 

Since I'm not really a fan of vomiting, I'm gonna keep it set to CHARGES I think. :p

[Teeter]

That is all correct and modeled as such :)

 

The only thing not incorporated is the 40kg pull allowing that extra emergency performance. We have figured out a slick way of introducing it as it is something that shouldn't be part of normal flight and it's hard to simulate the effect of having to pull back 40kg (which is a hell of a lot) on a desktop joystick.

 

We have thought of the following possiblities: 1. An emergency button/key that while pressed and at full stick deflection will engage the extra performance. 2. When pulled back all the way for some period of time it kicks in

 

Would love to hear thoughts on the issue.

 

Beyond that, everything Azrayen mentioned is how it operates currently.

 

I'm a fan of option both options actually.

 

Since many pulls are only very temporary, perhaps have it delay ~1 sec. from the time that the elastic limit has been reached.

 

But on the other hand, I love the ability to relax the FBW in the Su-27 with the flip of a switch.

 

Would it be possible to integrate both?

[PiedDroit]

We have thought of the following possiblities: 1. An emergency button/key that while pressed and at full stick deflection will engage the extra performance. 2. When pulled back all the way for some period of time it kicks in

 

Would love to hear thoughts on the issue.

I'm not a big fan of the button, this would be very strange...

I like option 2, although I think should be the other way around too, release the maximum force after a set time (you can't keep those 40kgs forever ;)).

[Teeter]

I'm not a big fan of the button, this would be very strange...

I like option 2, although I think should be the other way around too, release the maximum force after a set time (you can't keep those 40kgs forever ;)).

 

Agreed. After thinking more, I think that the timer is the way to go...in both ways, as PiedDroit says. Perhaps release after, say, five seconds?

[Hook47]

That is all correct and modeled as such :)

 

The only thing not incorporated is the 40kg pull allowing that extra emergency performance. We have not figured out a slick way of introducing it as it is something that shouldn't be part of normal flight and it's hard to simulate the effect of having to pull back 40kg (which is a hell of a lot) on a desktop joystick.

 

We have thought of the following possiblities: 1. An emergency button/key that while pressed and at full stick deflection will engage the extra performance. 2. When pulled back all the way for some period of time it kicks in

 

Would love to hear thoughts on the issue.

 

Beyond that, everything Azrayen mentioned is how it operates currently.

 

I think if we could get a "Special Menu" check box for the automatic option, and a key binding we could use either way, that would be the best situation all around. That way there can be some options for both preferences.

[Home Fries]

The only thing not incorporated is the 40kg pull allowing that extra emergency performance. We have not figured out a slick way of introducing it as it is something that shouldn't be part of normal flight and it's hard to simulate the effect of having to pull back 40kg (which is a hell of a lot) on a desktop joystick.

 

We have thought of the following possiblities: 1. An emergency button/key that while pressed and at full stick deflection will engage the extra performance. 2. When pulled back all the way for some period of time it kicks in

 

Would love to hear thoughts on the issue.

ED supposedly does this with the Su-27, where the hard stops can be reached by holding down the wheelbrake button/key while inflight.

[PiedDroit]

Agreed. After thinking more, I think that the timer is the way to go...in both ways, as PiedDroit says. Perhaps release after, say, five seconds?

After thinking too, maybe the max force (hard stop) should be engaged as soon as the stick is pulled to max deflection. And back to elastic force after a set time.

 

Here's my reasoning: If the pilot needs max input, he need it maybe NOW, and most likely he's able to pull the 40kg right away.

However he's not superman and after a set time, the stick goes back to elastic stop, until the pressure has been released on the stick (another threshold, close to neutral), allowing to repeat.

[Teeter]

After thinking too, maybe the max force (hard stop) should be engaged as soon as the stick is pulled to max deflection. And back to elastic force after a set time.

 

Here's my reasoning: If the pilot needs max input, he need it maybe NOW, and most likely he's able to pull the 40kg right away.

However he's not superman and after a set time, the stick goes back to elastic stop, until the pressure has been released on the stick (another threshold, close to neutral), allowing to repeat.

 

I still believe there should be a slight delay (perhaps just 0.5 sec), as there will still be that "hard" stop at the elastic limit, and the pilot would need to again overcome the new mechanical reaction.

[Sarge55]

I would also prefer option 2 with the caveat that Teeter has outlined above.