OxideMako Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) Are you guys trying to pull through the "elastic stop" system? or just pulling the stick back? http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2599460&postcount=121 Also patch is only implemented in 2.0 ATM Edited January 18, 2016 by OxideMako
Hummingbird Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 Did you try in 2.0? Yes all the tests were in 2.0. Are you guys trying to pull through the "elastic stop" system? or just pulling the stick back? http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2599460&postcount=121 No, we're not testing the instantanous turn rate which is the only place where this could be an influence. Also I start all my turns by gradually putting on the G's and then seeing how many I can hold whilst maintaining a specific speed & altitude.
Hummingbird Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 I'm pretty sure Hummingbird did his testing in 2.0, as he says he has "re-tested" the turn rate and it is "still" wrong. Hmm, this seems way off, not only of the Fighter symposium chart, but of the BMS one as well, which says about 5.8 G with a heavier aircraft. Obviously the FM is still very much WIP. I cannot test myself because I do not have 2.0, so I could only test the older 1.5 behaviour. I also noticed that the Mirage vs F-16 comparison you gave (hadn't seen them anywhere, thank you!) give a rather lower turn rate than the Fighter symposium chart in what seems to be roughly the same conditions (11°/s sustained vs 12.5°/s) ; internal fuel is not given though. Once again, I am not assuming anything on the trustworthiness of various sources, I am trying to look at every available source before making an opinion, since we do not have official Dassault or Armée de l'Air sanctionned charts (or from any country that operates the Mirage 2000C). I still think it is easier for everybody if we strive to tests the charts in the same conditions they show (loadout, fuel, altitude, atmospheric conditions, etc...). The last two comparison charts I posted lists the turn rate at specific speeds, Mach 0.7 & Mach 0.9 and are for fully fueled aircraft, at least both the M2000, F-16 & F-18 figures all fall within that area.
mvsgas Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 Yes all the tests were in 2.0. I don't understand, you tested at SL in 2.0? how is that possible? Do you have a track? The turn rate of the Mirage at SL remains an abysmal low 7 G's sustained @ Mach 0.9 at 55% fuel completely clean. Infact in many cases I was unable to sustain over 6.6 G's at Mach 0.9 at SL. This is far short of the 9+ G's the real aircraft will easily sustain at sea level in a 2x Magic loaded configuration. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
gospadin Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 I don't understand, you tested at SL in 2.0? how is that possible? Do you have a track? Death Valley =P My liveries, mods, and missions for DCS:World M-2000C English Cockpit | Extra Beacons Mod | Nav Kneeboard | Community A-4E
Hummingbird Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 I don't understand, you tested at SL in 2.0? how is that possible? Do you have a track? There's a valley to the far west on the map, there you can test SL performance.
gospadin Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 There's a valley to the far west on the map, there you can test SL performance. Yup, it's Death Valley as I posted in my previous picture. -279 feet at it's lowest point. My liveries, mods, and missions for DCS:World M-2000C English Cockpit | Extra Beacons Mod | Nav Kneeboard | Community A-4E
Hummingbird Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 Hey guys, just so you know I'm aware, as soon as I get back from work travel I'll be working this issue along with general performance. Now that dynamics seem to be more in line, tuning performance is fairly straight-forward. In any event I definitely concur that in some regimes STR isn't up to snuff. So all in all I'm on it and should have something for you all in the next update :) Awesome stuff Smiley! :thumbup: I wish you a nice and comfortable trip home :)
Hummingbird Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 Haven't flown the Mirage in a while as I've been out of town, but since I'll be back home tomorrow I was just wondering wether this issue has been touched in any of the last patches? :)
TomCatMucDe Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 There have been no additional patches since the last post from Smiley
OnlyforDCS Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Hey guys, just so you know I'm aware, as soon as I get back from work travel I'll be working this issue along with general performance. Now that dynamics seem to be more in line, tuning performance is fairly straight-forward. In any event I definitely concur that in some regimes STR isn't up to snuff. So all in all I'm on it and should have something for you all in the next update :) :thumbup: Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
Hummingbird Posted January 27, 2016 Author Posted January 27, 2016 There have been no additional patches since the last post from Smiley Alright, has there been any ETA on the next patches? :)
Aginor Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 not yet AFAIK. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet
TomCatMucDe Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Turn rate re-tested Alright, has there been any ETA on the next patches? :) There hasn't been anything at all. Captain was in a business trip he said. Edited January 30, 2016 by TomCatMucDe
ED Team NineLine Posted January 30, 2016 ED Team Posted January 30, 2016 Thread cleaned, if you dont have anything constructive and/or helpful to say, dont waste everyones time posting please. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Hummingbird Posted February 12, 2016 Author Posted February 12, 2016 Alright just tested the turn rate again in 2.0 since the last update, and holy mother of jebus this thing has become like a ballistic missile! :shocking: :surprise: The thing litterally doesn't stop accelerating, even when pulling 9.2 G's at 800 km/h! :fear: It's great that you improved its turn rate, but I think you might have overdone it a little :D
RoflSeal Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 Alright just tested the turn rate again in 2.0 since the last update, and holy mother of jebus this thing has become like a ballistic missile! :shocking: :surprise: The thing litterally doesn't stop accelerating, even when pulling 9.2 G's at 800 km/h! :fear: It's great that you improved its turn rate, but I think you might have overdone it a little :D At 15,000ft or at SL? Since at SL, modern fighters STR tend to be G limited at SL.
Hook47 Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 Alright just tested the turn rate again in 2.0 since the last update, and holy mother of jebus this thing has become like a ballistic missile! :shocking: :surprise: The thing litterally doesn't stop accelerating, even when pulling 9.2 G's at 800 km/h! :fear: It's great that you improved its turn rate, but I think you might have overdone it a little :D Not good. I would far rather have underperforming STR than unrealistic acceleration performance in a turn.... everything I have read about the M-2000 says it bleeds speed more than the average comparable fighter in the turns.
Hummingbird Posted February 12, 2016 Author Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) False alarm! - sort of Did a more thurough test this time without any G-loc enabled, and the Mirage actually matches the chart values at Mach 0.9 beautifully - earlier I must have been confused by the premature G-loc the Mirage pilot seems to be suffering from, G-loc sometimes occuring already around 7.5 G's. One peculiarity however is a reluctance to lose speed at max pitch around 550 km/h. Perhaps this is due to the AoA limiter, I can't quite tell, but the amount of G's pulled is fairly high. Will have to test more. As a side note the sensitivity in pitch and roll is also very low, so low I have been forced to use a reversed S curve. This needs some looking into IMHO. Edited February 12, 2016 by Hummingbird
Hummingbird Posted February 23, 2017 Author Posted February 23, 2017 Sustained turn rate at SL with 50% fuel clean is again back down to 7 G's @ Mach 0.9 :-(
Hummingbird Posted February 23, 2017 Author Posted February 23, 2017 I am unable to recreate that at all...clean with 50% fuel, max STR at M0.9 is ~8.5G. Can you send a track/video to show what it looks like on your end? EDIT: Actually more like 8.8G clean, 8.5 was with 2 Magic II on board. Will do, was in 1.5 beta btw, does that have a say?
Hummingbird Posted February 23, 2017 Author Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) Copy that Smiley, I'll upload a video tonight as I gather that DCS own tracks don't work too well (or has that been fixed?) Edited February 23, 2017 by Hummingbird
Buzzles Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Copy that Smiley, I'll upload a video tonight as I gather that DCS own tracks don't work too well (or has that been fixed?) Short tracks (with no dynamic weather) are generally okay. ED + Others need tracks as they can run them in debug mode and get the values out of the sim. Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here!
Hummingbird Posted February 23, 2017 Author Posted February 23, 2017 Alright, I'll send the track instead then. So I just need to turn off dynamic weather?
Buzzles Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Alright, I'll send the track instead then. So I just need to turn off dynamic weather? It's not normally on unless you've been explicitly doing so in your own missions. Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here!
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